exit from MSDos

brucegooglegroups · Oct 9, 2007

After rebooting into MSDOS mode, I find that I can't restart the
computer into
Windows. Exit( which may work only internally) doesn't work. What is
the command to exit from MSDOS in order to restart the computer in
Windows 98?
Thanks.
Bruce

Don Phillipson · Oct 9, 2007

"brucegooglegroups" <brucegooglegroups@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1191936659.966604.199240@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

> After rebooting into MSDOS mode, I find that I can't restart the
> computer into
> Windows. Exit( which may work only internally) doesn't work. What is
> the command to exit from MSDOS in order to restart the computer in
> Windows 98?

1. To start Windows from a DOS prompt, key
c:\windows\win.com
2. To restart the computer from a DOS prompt, key simultaneously
Ctl Alt Del
Whether it then boots Windows or DOS depends on your MSDOS.SYS
or other config. files.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

PCR · Oct 9, 2007

brucegooglegroups wrote:
| After rebooting into MSDOS mode, I find that I can't restart the
| computer into
| Windows. Exit( which may work only internally) doesn't work. What is
| the command to exit from MSDOS in order to restart the computer in
| Windows 98?
| Thanks.

First, try EXIT at the DOS Prompt.
If that fails, try "WIN /WX".
If that fails, finally...

REN C:\Config.sys Config.bad
REN C:\Autoexec.bat Autoexec.bad
Ctrl-Alt-Del hopefully to Windows

In Windows...

START, Find, F/F, *.wos
START, Find, F/F, *.bad
Open them in Notepad, & post.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kbEN-US151717
Can't EXIT MS-DOS Mode
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=130448
Can't QUIT MS-DOS Mode
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KBEN-USq138996
Description of Restarting Computer in MS-DOS Mode

| Bruce

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcrrcp@netzero.net

thanatoid · Oct 9, 2007

"PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in
news:#u69SKsCIHA.4308@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl:

> brucegooglegroups wrote:
>| After rebooting into MSDOS mode, I find that I can't
>| restart the computer into
>| Windows. Exit( which may work only internally) doesn't
>| work. What is the command to exit from MSDOS in order to
>| restart the computer in Windows 98?
>| Thanks.
>
> First, try EXIT at the DOS Prompt.
> If that fails, try "WIN /WX".
> If that fails, finally...
>
> REN C:\Config.sys Config.bad
> REN C:\Autoexec.bat Autoexec.bad
> Ctrl-Alt-Del hopefully to Windows
>
> In Windows...
>
> START, Find, F/F, *.wos
> START, Find, F/F, *.bad
> Open them in Notepad, & post.
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kbEN-US1517
> 17 Can't EXIT MS-DOS Mode
> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=130448
> Can't QUIT MS-DOS Mode
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KBEN-USq138
> 996 Description of Restarting Computer in MS-DOS Mode
>
>| Bruce
>

The above good advice aside, you should be aware that "restart
in DOS" is NOT really 100% true DOS - just sort of a DOS within
windows.

If you want DOS as it really IS, you have to reboot and go into
DOS before Windows rears its ugly face (F5 or F6 or whatever
depending on OS version).

PCR · Oct 10, 2007

thanatoid wrote:
| "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in
| news:#u69SKsCIHA.4308@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl:
|
|> brucegooglegroups wrote:
|>| After rebooting into MSDOS mode, I find that I can't
|>| restart the computer into
|>| Windows. Exit( which may work only internally) doesn't
|>| work. What is the command to exit from MSDOS in order to
|>| restart the computer in Windows 98?
|>| Thanks.
|>
|> First, try EXIT at the DOS Prompt.
|> If that fails, try "WIN /WX".
|> If that fails, finally...
|>
|> REN C:\Config.sys Config.bad
|> REN C:\Autoexec.bat Autoexec.bad
|> Ctrl-Alt-Del hopefully to Windows
|>
|> In Windows...
|>
|> START, Find, F/F, *.wos
|> START, Find, F/F, *.bad
|> Open them in Notepad, & post.
|>
|> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kbEN-US1517
|> 17 Can't EXIT MS-DOS Mode
|> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=130448
|> Can't QUIT MS-DOS Mode
|> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KBEN-USq138
|> 996 Description of Restarting Computer in MS-DOS Mode
|>
|>| Bruce
|>
|
| The above good advice aside, you should be aware that "restart
| in DOS" is NOT really 100% true DOS - just sort of a DOS within
| windows.

Well, Chris Quirke also doesn't like the default behavior of "START,
Shut Down, Restart in MS-DOS Mode". It leaves a 4K stub of Windows in
memory which will be used to restart Windows when EXIT is typed at the
DOS prompt. Chris believes the fact that Windows has run & is prepared
to start again may cause DOS & Windows to interfere with each other. And
he likely knows better than me, (but I still will do it that way for
little things). There may be more about that at...
http://cquirke.mvps.org/9x/

HOWEVER, the DOS that runs that way is the same as the DOS that runs
from a cold boot. It isn't the DOS of a Windows DOS box

| If you want DOS as it really IS, you have to reboot and go into
| DOS before Windows rears its ugly face (F5 or F6 or whatever
| depending on OS version).

"Windows 98 Secrets" (Livingston/Straub), pgs 1068,1099, explains:

1. Direct Boot to DOS (Cold booted DOS)

a. Accessed through Boot Menu item, "Command Prompt Only".
b. Windows is not started.
c. Config.sys & Autoexec.bat are run, if present.
d. Ctrl-Alt-Del boots Windows. "WIN" loads Windows.

2. "Quit" to DOS (Re-started MS-DOS mode)

a. Accessed from "START, Shut Down, Restart in MS-DOS mode",
unless "Exit to DOS" pif was converted to "Warm Boot".
b. Accessed from any .pif whose "Properties, Program tab,
Advanced button" is checked "MS-DOS mode" but NOT bolted
"Specify a new MS-DOS configuration".
c. Is NOT a warm boot Config.sys & Autoexec.bat are NOT re-run,
but are honored to the extent Windows has not mussed the
environment they set.
d. Dosstart.bat is run, if present.
e. "EXIT" reloads Windows (from 4K stub), also without a boot.
Ctrl-Alt-Del boots Windows.

3. Warm Booted MS-DOS mode ("Re-boot" to DOS)

a. Accessed from a "Warm Boot" .pif that IS BOTH checked
"MS-DOS mode" AND bolted "Specify a new MS-DOS
configuration", in it's Properties, Program tab, Advanced button.
b. Accessed from START button, if you've altered "exit to dos",
as described.
c. Does a warm boot, using Config.sys and Autoexec.bat as
configured in the pif. (The system files are renamed *.wos & the
.pif files are extracted for the session.)
d. Dosstart.bat is NOT run.
e. "EXIT" restores the system Config.sys & Autoexec.bat & warm
boots to Windows. (Ctrl-Alt-Del & "WIN" should NOT be used.)

If you don't want to modify the "exit to dos" pif so that it does a warm
boot, then create a pif this way:

1. "START, Find, Command.com". (Probably in C:\ & C:\Windows).
2. "R-Clk either, Send to, Desktop (create shortcut)". It will be
named "MS-DOS Prompt".
3. R-Clk "MS-DOS Prompt" on the Desktop, & select Properties.
4. Click the Program tab & then the Advanced button.
5. Mark the MS-DOS Mode check box. Mark "Warn before entering...",
as desired.
6. For a "Warm Boot to DOS" pif, mark the "Specify a New MS-DOS
Configuration" button. If you do not do that, you will have a
"Quit to DOS" pif.
7. OK you're way out.

When you click that pif, you will either "warm boot" or "quit to DOS",
depending on what you did in step 6. If it's a warm boot, then the
Config.sys & Autoexec.bat inside the pif are the ones that will be in
effect in your DOS session. Alter them inside the pif as desired, before
clicking it.

Cquirke's WARNING: Because of system/.pif file switching, give a Warm
Boot .pif a chance to execute after clicking. If you click it a second
time before getting to DOS, you may lose your system Config.sys &
Autoexec.bat files.

Lil' Dave · Oct 10, 2007

"brucegooglegroups" <brucegooglegroups@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1191936659.966604.199240@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> After rebooting into MSDOS mode, I find that I can't restart the
> computer into
> Windows. Exit( which may work only internally) doesn't work. What is
> the command to exit from MSDOS in order to restart the computer in
> Windows 98?
> Thanks.
> Bruce
>

Maybe I'm missing something the others replied to. What I see is you are in
true (real) msdos mode from the git-go. You never entered windows 98. How
you got there, is only conjecture.
Dave

thanatoid · Oct 10, 2007

"PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in
news:OazMKh4CIHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl:

> thanatoid wrote:
>| "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in
>| news:#u69SKsCIHA.4308@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl:
>|
>|> brucegooglegroups wrote:
>|>| After rebooting into MSDOS mode, I find that I can't
>|>| restart the computer into
>|>| Windows. Exit( which may work only internally) doesn't
>|>| work. What is the command to exit from MSDOS in order to
>|>| restart the computer in Windows 98?
>|>| Thanks.
>|>
>|> First, try EXIT at the DOS Prompt.
>|> If that fails, try "WIN /WX".
>|> If that fails, finally...
>|>
>|> REN C:\Config.sys Config.bad
>|> REN C:\Autoexec.bat Autoexec.bad
>|> Ctrl-Alt-Del hopefully to Windows
>|>
>|> In Windows...
>|>
>|> START, Find, F/F, *.wos
>|> START, Find, F/F, *.bad
>|> Open them in Notepad, & post.
>|>
>|> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kbEN-US15
>|> 17 17 Can't EXIT MS-DOS Mode
>|> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=130448
>|> Can't QUIT MS-DOS Mode
>|> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KBEN-USq1
>|> 38 996 Description of Restarting Computer in MS-DOS Mode
>|>
>|>| Bruce
>|>
>|
>| The above good advice aside, you should be aware that
>| "restart in DOS" is NOT really 100% true DOS - just sort
>| of a DOS within windows.
>
> Well, Chris Quirke also doesn't like the default behavior
> of "START, Shut Down, Restart in MS-DOS Mode". It leaves a
> 4K stub of Windows in memory which will be used to restart
> Windows when EXIT is typed at the DOS prompt. Chris
> believes the fact that Windows has run & is prepared to
> start again may cause DOS & Windows to interfere with each
> other. And he likely knows better than me, (but I still
> will do it that way for little things). There may be more
> about that at... http://cquirke.mvps.org/9x/
>
> HOWEVER, the DOS that runs that way is the same as the DOS
> that runs from a cold boot. It isn't the DOS of a Windows
> DOS box
>
>| If you want DOS as it really IS, you have to reboot and go
>| into DOS before Windows rears its ugly face (F5 or F6 or
>| whatever depending on OS version).
>
> "Windows 98 Secrets" (Livingston/Straub), pgs 1068,1099,
> explains:
>
> 1. Direct Boot to DOS (Cold booted DOS)
>
> a. Accessed through Boot Menu item, "Command Prompt Only".
> b. Windows is not started.
> c. Config.sys & Autoexec.bat are run, if present.
> d. Ctrl-Alt-Del boots Windows. "WIN" loads Windows.
>
> 2. "Quit" to DOS (Re-started MS-DOS mode)
>
> a. Accessed from "START, Shut Down, Restart in MS-DOS
> mode",
> unless "Exit to DOS" pif was converted to "Warm Boot".
> b. Accessed from any .pif whose "Properties, Program tab,
> Advanced button" is checked "MS-DOS mode" but NOT
> bolted "Specify a new MS-DOS configuration".
> c. Is NOT a warm boot Config.sys & Autoexec.bat are NOT
> re-run,
> but are honored to the extent Windows has not mussed
> the environment they set.
> d. Dosstart.bat is run, if present.
> e. "EXIT" reloads Windows (from 4K stub), also without a
> boot.
> Ctrl-Alt-Del boots Windows.
>
> 3. Warm Booted MS-DOS mode ("Re-boot" to DOS)
>
> a. Accessed from a "Warm Boot" .pif that IS BOTH checked
> "MS-DOS mode" AND bolted "Specify a new MS-DOS
> configuration", in it's Properties, Program tab,
> Advanced button.
> b. Accessed from START button, if you've altered "exit to
> dos",
> as described.
> c. Does a warm boot, using Config.sys and Autoexec.bat as
> configured in the pif. (The system files are renamed
> *.wos & the .pif files are extracted for the session.)
> d. Dosstart.bat is NOT run.
> e. "EXIT" restores the system Config.sys & Autoexec.bat &
> warm
> boots to Windows. (Ctrl-Alt-Del & "WIN" should NOT be
> used.)
>
> If you don't want to modify the "exit to dos" pif so that
> it does a warm boot, then create a pif this way:
>
> 1. "START, Find, Command.com". (Probably in C:\ &
> C:\Windows). 2. "R-Clk either, Send to, Desktop (create
> shortcut)". It will be
> named "MS-DOS Prompt".
> 3. R-Clk "MS-DOS Prompt" on the Desktop, & select
> Properties. 4. Click the Program tab & then the Advanced
> button. 5. Mark the MS-DOS Mode check box. Mark "Warn
> before entering...",
> as desired.
> 6. For a "Warm Boot to DOS" pif, mark the "Specify a New
> MS-DOS
> Configuration" button. If you do not do that, you will
> have a
> "Quit to DOS" pif.
> 7. OK you're way out.
>
> When you click that pif, you will either "warm boot" or
> "quit to DOS", depending on what you did in step 6. If it's
> a warm boot, then the Config.sys & Autoexec.bat inside the
> pif are the ones that will be in effect in your DOS
> session. Alter them inside the pif as desired, before
> clicking it.
>
> Cquirke's WARNING: Because of system/.pif file switching,
> give a Warm Boot .pif a chance to execute after clicking.
> If you click it a second time before getting to DOS, you
> may lose your system Config.sys & Autoexec.bat files.
>
>

Thanks for explaining in considerably more accurate -)
terminology what I was trying to say.

The rest of the post made my old head hurt, although is IS very
impressive knowledge.

THAT having been said (and this is directed at the OP really),
WHAT the hell is wrong with shutting down completely, even
turning off the power switch for 15 seconds if you're *really* a
perfectionist, and just starting in DOS? Ever heard of the boot
menu? ENABLE IT!

My machine boots fully into Windows in 45 seconds and it's a
166MHz! All these stupid Microsoft "let's make it easier in the
dumb user" things have a curious way of biting you in the ass
sooner or later.

I still do some things in DOS sometimes, but when I'm done, I
ALWAYS SHUT DOWN, and reboot from scratch, going into Windows
for the usual stuff.

Buffalo · Oct 11, 2007

"thanatoid" <waiting@the.exit.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns99C5D20EAB206thanexit@66.250.146.158...

[snip]

> "> THAT having been said (and this is directed at the OP really),
> WHAT the hell is wrong with shutting down completely, even
> turning off the power switch for 15 seconds if you're *really* a
> perfectionist, and just starting in DOS?
[snip]

If your HDD hasn't stopped spinning completely in the 15 sec you suggested,
you may be putting more strain on it.
Do you have any reason to suggest why you would shut down completely rather
than do a restart and just go into DOS before Windows is loaded?

PCR · Oct 11, 2007

thanatoid · Oct 12, 2007

"PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in
news:e0NdcsFDIHA.3548@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl:

Hey OCR? Ever heard of SNIPPING?

>| Thanks for explaining in considerably more accurate -)
>| terminology what I was trying to say.
>
> OK. I thought you might have meant that.

What did I say? I don't remember.

>| The rest of the post made my old head hurt, although is IS
>| very impressive knowledge.
>
> Initially, it came out of that book & some experimentation
> of my own. Afterwards, both cquirke & likely Blanton had a
> hand in it.
>
>| THAT having been said (and this is directed at the OP
>| really), WHAT the hell is wrong with shutting down
>| completely, even turning off the power switch for 15
>| seconds if you're *really* a perfectionist, and just
>| starting in DOS?
>
> Well, as Buffalo says, that may put a strain on the power
> supply & the hard drive(s)'s motor(s). And this is doubly
> true, if you also will suggested that the machine be shut
> off again, before booting again to Windows. So... one or
> other of the .pif's should be used, if you go to DOS 1 1/2
> times per blue moon!

I've been doing the procedure on *this* machine for over 10
years and NOTHING has ever gone wrong. There are people who turn
their machines off and on 10 times a day and their machines will
or will not as long as someone's who runs Linux and reboots once
a month. You never know. It's mind-boggling that ANYTHING works
at all, to me, to be honest.

>| Ever heard of the boot
>| menu? ENABLE IT!
>
> Absolutely...!...

You realize I was talking to the OP? I know YOU know about it!

> (a) "START button, Run, MSConfig, Advanced button".
> (b) Check... "Enable Startup Menu".
>
> Doing it that way puts up the menu at boot with a 30 second
> timer for it to default to a boot to Windows. Hit the ENTER
> key for it to resume the boot immediately. Hit any other
> key for it to wait forever for a choice.

I have it set for 3 seconds. If you need longer, you should
probably just watch TV. -)

>| My machine boots fully into Windows in 45 seconds and it's
>| a 166MHz! All these stupid Microsoft "let's make it easier
>| in the dumb user" things have a curious way of biting you
>| in the ass sooner or later.
>|
>| I still do some things in DOS sometimes, but when I'm
>| done, I ALWAYS SHUT DOWN, and reboot from scratch, going
>| into Windows for the usual stuff.
>
> So! If you are in Windows, you will shut down TWICE before
> getting back to Windows, if you've thought of something to
> quickly do in DOS! Hmph!

Big deal! There are worse things we all have to put up with! And
like I said, it causes NO harm, whatsoever.

PCR · Oct 12, 2007

thanatoid wrote:
| "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in
| news:e0NdcsFDIHA.3548@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl:
|
|
| Hey OCR? Ever heard of SNIPPING?

That's PCR-- not OCR or even CPR! I thought everything in there was
relevant to our important & monumental discussion.

|>| Thanks for explaining in considerably more accurate -)
|>| terminology what I was trying to say.
|>
|> OK. I thought you might have meant that.
|
| What did I say? I don't remember.

It took a little longer-- but I have forgotten too now!

|>| The rest of the post made my old head hurt, although is IS
|>| very impressive knowledge.
|>
|> Initially, it came out of that book & some experimentation
|> of my own. Afterwards, both cquirke & likely Blanton had a
|> hand in it.
|>
|>| THAT having been said (and this is directed at the OP
|>| really), WHAT the hell is wrong with shutting down
|>| completely, even turning off the power switch for 15
|>| seconds if you're *really* a perfectionist, and just
|>| starting in DOS?
|>
|> Well, as Buffalo says, that may put a strain on the power
|> supply & the hard drive(s)'s motor(s). And this is doubly
|> true, if you also will suggested that the machine be shut
|> off again, before booting again to Windows. So... one or
|> other of the .pif's should be used, if you go to DOS 1 1/2
|> times per blue moon!
|
| I've been doing the procedure on *this* machine for over 10
| years and NOTHING has ever gone wrong. There are people who turn
| their machines off and on 10 times a day and their machines will
| or will not as long as someone's who runs Linux and reboots once
| a month. You never know. It's mind-boggling that ANYTHING works
| at all, to me, to be honest.

Anyhow, best wait for the motor to stop spinning after switching off,
before switching it back on. I always count at least to five!

|>| Ever heard of the boot
|>| menu? ENABLE IT!
|>
|> Absolutely...!...
|
| You realize I was talking to the OP? I know YOU know about it!

I was talking to all the world reading now or who will look it up in a
Google search 200 years from now on machines that weren't shut on/off to
death!

|> (a) "START button, Run, MSConfig, Advanced button".
|> (b) Check... "Enable Startup Menu".
|>
|> Doing it that way puts up the menu at boot with a 30 second
|> timer for it to default to a boot to Windows. Hit the ENTER
|> key for it to resume the boot immediately. Hit any other
|> key for it to wait forever for a choice.
|
| I have it set for 3 seconds. If you need longer, you should
| probably just watch TV. -)

Well, mine is 10 seconds-- but usually I hit ENTER long before that!

|>| My machine boots fully into Windows in 45 seconds and it's
|>| a 166MHz! All these stupid Microsoft "let's make it easier
|>| in the dumb user" things have a curious way of biting you
|>| in the ass sooner or later.
|>|
|>| I still do some things in DOS sometimes, but when I'm
|>| done, I ALWAYS SHUT DOWN, and reboot from scratch, going
|>| into Windows for the usual stuff.
|>
|> So! If you are in Windows, you will shut down TWICE before
|> getting back to Windows, if you've thought of something to
|> quickly do in DOS! Hmph!
|
| Big deal! There are worse things we all have to put up with! And
| like I said, it causes NO harm, whatsoever.

I have a renewed hope my machine will outlast yours after all! Ah, ha,
ha! (And never mind I had a hard drive crash after 1 year-- that must
have been something else!)

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcrrcp@netzero.net

Buffalo · Oct 12, 2007

thanatoid wrote:
>> When the HDD starts slowing down, it puts a different
>> direction on the force to the shaft in the bearing, and
>> then when you suddenly turn the power back on, the force on
>> the bearing goes in the opposite direction.
>
> Are you actually saying there is a mechanism that makes the
> platters spin in the opposite direction, rather than just
> letting them come to a stop? I am not a technician, but if that
> is actually the case, it's among the stupidest ideas I've ever
> heard.

Of course not.

(I'm not referring to the stupidest ideas you've ever heard)

>> Think about
>> suddenly taking your foot off the gas pedal in a moving car
>> and then stepping on the gas hard.
>> Perhaps with the bearings in the newer HDD, this is not a
>> problem, but why take a chance, especially "if you're
>> *really* a perfectionist".
>
> /laughs/

Perhaps I can explain it better.
When the disks in the HDD are decelerating, they put a certain 'lean' on the
spindle (shaft, axle,etc).
When the disks in the HDD are accelerating, they put the opposite 'lean' on
the spindle (shaft,axle,etc).
If you still can't grasp what I am trying to say, I will try to come up with
something else, like perhaps torque or something.

thanatoid · Oct 13, 2007

"Buffalo" <Eric@nada.com.invalid> wrote in
news:Oq-dnasJrK70q43anZ2dnUVZ_uygnZ2d@comcast.com:

> thanatoid wrote:
>>> When the HDD starts slowing down, it puts a different
>>> direction on the force to the shaft in the bearing, and
>>> then when you suddenly turn the power back on, the force
>>> on the bearing goes in the opposite direction.
>>
>> Are you actually saying there is a mechanism that makes
>> the platters spin in the opposite direction, rather than
>> just letting them come to a stop? I am not a technician,
>> but if that is actually the case, it's among the stupidest
>> ideas I've ever heard.
>
> Of course not.

> (I'm not referring to the stupidest ideas you've ever
> heard)
>
>
>>> Think about
>>> suddenly taking your foot off the gas pedal in a moving
>>> car and then stepping on the gas hard.
>>> Perhaps with the bearings in the newer HDD, this is not a
>>> problem, but why take a chance, especially "if you're
>>> *really* a perfectionist".
>>
>> /laughs/
>
> Perhaps I can explain it better.
> When the disks in the HDD are decelerating, they put a
> certain 'lean' on the spindle (shaft, axle,etc).
> When the disks in the HDD are accelerating, they put the
> opposite 'lean' on the spindle (shaft,axle,etc).
> If you still can't grasp what I am trying to say, I will
> try to come up with something else, like perhaps torque or
> something.

I am not that dense, I understand now.

First, I might buy the "lean" theory as applied to accelerating,
but IMO inherent inertia eliminates any "lean" while
decelerating. Inertia is not a mechanically *significant*
"opposite force", AFAIK. (I did fail all my physics classes.)

Second, I would *guess* that either "lean" has a practically
zero effect on the mechanical parts. I would never own a laptop
for a variety of reasons, but just think what the HD's in those
things are put through ten times a minute - yet seem to work. Or
in an IPod /thanatoid, an atheist, crosses himself after having
typed the name of the dyevyll/.

Perhaps someone who IS a technician or HD designer would like to
join in and start talking about physics, perhaps bringing
gravity into it and whether the HD is installed vertically or
horizontally makes a difference, and whether that difference is
around .23% or only around .016%.

Buffalo · Oct 13, 2007

thanatoid wrote:
> "Buffalo" <Eric@nada.com.invalid> wrote in
> news:Oq-dnasJrK70q43anZ2dnUVZ_uygnZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>> thanatoid wrote:
>>>> When the HDD starts slowing down, it puts a different
>>>> direction on the force to the shaft in the bearing, and
>>>> then when you suddenly turn the power back on, the force
>>>> on the bearing goes in the opposite direction.
>>>
>>> Are you actually saying there is a mechanism that makes
>>> the platters spin in the opposite direction, rather than
>>> just letting them come to a stop? I am not a technician,
>>> but if that is actually the case, it's among the stupidest
>>> ideas I've ever heard.
>>
>> Of course not.

>> (I'm not referring to the stupidest ideas you've ever
>> heard)
>>
>>
>>>> Think about
>>>> suddenly taking your foot off the gas pedal in a moving
>>>> car and then stepping on the gas hard.
>>>> Perhaps with the bearings in the newer HDD, this is not a
>>>> problem, but why take a chance, especially "if you're
>>>> *really* a perfectionist".
>>>
>>> /laughs/
>>
>> Perhaps I can explain it better.
>> When the disks in the HDD are decelerating, they put a
>> certain 'lean' on the spindle (shaft, axle,etc).
>> When the disks in the HDD are accelerating, they put the
>> opposite 'lean' on the spindle (shaft,axle,etc).
>> If you still can't grasp what I am trying to say, I will
>> try to come up with something else, like perhaps torque or
>> something.
>
> I am not that dense, I understand now.

Not even close.

> First, I might buy the "lean" theory as applied to accelerating,
> but IMO inherent inertia eliminates any "lean" while
> decelerating. Inertia is not a mechanically *significant*
> "opposite force", AFAIK. (I did fail all my physics classes.)

'Leaning' was a just a term I was using to try to relate what was happening,
it did not mean actual leaning.

> Second, I would *guess* that either "lean" has a practically
> zero effect on the mechanical parts. I would never own a laptop
> for a variety of reasons, but just think what the HD's in those
> things are put through ten times a minute - yet seem to work. Or
> in an IPod /thanatoid, an atheist, crosses himself after having
> typed the name of the dyevyll/.

"/thanatoid, an atheist, crosses himself after having
typed the name of the dyevyll/."

WTF would an atheist cross himself?

> Perhaps someone who IS a technician or HD designer would like to
> join in and start talking about physics, perhaps bringing
> gravity into it and whether the HD is installed vertically or
> horizontally makes a difference, and whether that difference is
> around .23% or only around .016%.

It's the forces and strains caused by going from deceleration to
acceleration rapidly, almost like 'jerking'.
It has nothing to do with the physical position (orientation) of the HDD.
Use your imagination.

End of thread for me.

thanatoid · Oct 13, 2007

"Buffalo" <Eric@nada.com.invalid> wrote in
news:sdadnTNCnp0Ieo3anZ2dnUVZ_uiknZ2d@comcast.com:

> thanatoid wrote:
>> "Buffalo" <Eric@nada.com.invalid> wrote in
>> news:Oq-dnasJrK70q43anZ2dnUVZ_uygnZ2d@comcast.com:
>>
>>> thanatoid wrote:
>>>>> When the HDD starts slowing down, it puts a different
>>>>> direction on the force to the shaft in the bearing, and
>>>>> then when you suddenly turn the power back on, the
>>>>> force on the bearing goes in the opposite direction.
>>>>
>>>> Are you actually saying there is a mechanism that makes
>>>> the platters spin in the opposite direction, rather than
>>>> just letting them come to a stop? I am not a technician,
>>>> but if that is actually the case, it's among the
>>>> stupidest ideas I've ever heard.
>>>
>>> Of course not.

>>> (I'm not referring to the stupidest ideas you've ever
>>> heard)
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Think about
>>>>> suddenly taking your foot off the gas pedal in a moving
>>>>> car and then stepping on the gas hard.
>>>>> Perhaps with the bearings in the newer HDD, this is not
>>>>> a problem, but why take a chance, especially "if you're
>>>>> *really* a perfectionist".
>>>>
>>>> /laughs/
>>>
>>> Perhaps I can explain it better.
>>> When the disks in the HDD are decelerating, they put a
>>> certain 'lean' on the spindle (shaft, axle,etc).
>>> When the disks in the HDD are accelerating, they put the
>>> opposite 'lean' on the spindle (shaft,axle,etc).
>>> If you still can't grasp what I am trying to say, I will
>>> try to come up with something else, like perhaps torque
>>> or something.
>>
>> I am not that dense, I understand now.
>
> Not even close.

OK. I am SO stupid and you know everything. So what else is new
in YOUR world?

>> First, I might buy the "lean" theory as applied to
>> accelerating, but IMO inherent inertia eliminates any
>> "lean" while decelerating. Inertia is not a mechanically
>> *significant* "opposite force", AFAIK. (I did fail all my
>> physics classes.)
>
> 'Leaning' was a just a term I was using to try to relate
> what was happening, it did not mean actual leaning.

No kidding. I was gonna ask whether the bearings were leaning
against a wall or a cabinet.

>> Second, I would *guess* that either "lean" has a
>> practically zero effect on the mechanical parts. I would
>> never own a laptop for a variety of reasons, but just
>> think what the HD's in those things are put through ten
>> times a minute - yet seem to work. Or in an IPod
>> /thanatoid, an atheist, crosses himself after having typed
>> the name of the dyevyll/.
>
> "/thanatoid, an atheist, crosses himself after having
> typed the name of the dyevyll/."
>
> WTF would an atheist cross himself?

Have YOU ever met the dyevyll?

And I did not actually cross myself, I don't even know how. I
just thought it might introduce a smidgen of humor into this
horrible thread. Apparently that attempt was lost on the other
participant.

>> Perhaps someone who IS a technician or HD designer would
>> like to join in and start talking about physics, perhaps
>> bringing gravity into it and whether the HD is installed
>> vertically or horizontally makes a difference, and whether
>> that difference is around .23% or only around .016%.
>
> It's the forces and strains caused by going from
> deceleration to acceleration rapidly, almost like
> 'jerking'. It has nothing to do with the physical position
> (orientation) of the HDD.

I don't think you can be so sure about that. Not that ANY of it
matters in the slightest.

> Use your imagination.

Sorry, it went on vacation when I started talking to you.

> End of thread for me.

I could not agree more, and PLEASE forgive me for my obvious and
infinite stupidity.

As for the previous post, you might want to look up "sarcasm"
and "pointless discussions". OTOH, just look up "why do people
post on the Usenet" And if you find out, let us know.

Dan · Oct 15, 2007

These unknown threads are starting to bug everyone. You should have to post
some text in the message box to be able to post here in the microsoft 98
general newsgroup.

exit from MSDos

brucegooglegroups

Don Phillipson

PCR

thanatoid

PCR

Lil' Dave

thanatoid

Buffalo

PCR

thanatoid

PCR

Buffalo

thanatoid

Buffalo

thanatoid

Dan

Similar threads