Error 291, Statement 6130

[ridgeback]

Trying to help a client who is running Sage MAS200 SQL Ver 3.71 on a new
Windows Vista (Ultimate) workstation. Vista OS for this version of MAS
is currently not supported by Sage Software, so I cannot get a
definition of this error, as they say it is not a MAS error but rather
a Windows error. Can anyone explain what this error message means?

Many thanks.


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[Andrew McLaren]

"ridgeback" <ridgeback.2txtrg@DoNotSpam.com> wrote ...
>
> Trying to help a client who is running Sage MAS200 SQL Ver 3.71 on a new
> Windows Vista (Ultimate) workstation. Vista OS for this version of MAS
> is currently not supported by Sage Software, so I cannot get a
> definition of this error, as they say it is not a MAS error but rather
> a Windows error. Can anyone explain what this error message means?

Error lookup in Visual C++ only shows a Error 291 ASIN() "out of range". I'm
pretty sure that's not the error you're talking about here! So, can you give
a little more context?

What's the extact text of the error message?
When does it appear? During setup, or after the product is installed?
What do you do, to make the error appear?

We might be able to say a bit more, after this info is in hand.

Thanks!
--
Andrew McLaren
amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au

 

[ridgeback]

Andrew -

Hello. Just to explain.....I am NOT an IT person, or a network/systems
person. I am a just a lowly little MAS s/ware tech support person, so
figuring out some of the installation stuff can be a bit over my head.
But here is what I know.

The error started right after the (client site) IT person did a
MAS200SQL workstation setup on a new Windows Vista machine, to enable
that workstation to log in to MAS200 on their network. The user
previously had a Windows XP w/station, which is what MAS supports.
Typically, the workstation setup executable places an icon on the
desktop and from there you click on the MAS desktop icon to open the
program. However in this case, it immediately throws the error
referenced (and that is all it says), and your only option then is to
select "OK", and then the error disappears and you are back on the
desktop.

Thanks for your time.


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[Malke]

ridgeback wrote:
> Andrew -
>
> Hello. Just to explain.....I am NOT an IT person, or a network/systems
> person. I am a just a lowly little MAS s/ware tech support person, so
> figuring out some of the installation stuff can be a bit over my head.
> But here is what I know.
>
> The error started right after the (client site) IT person did a
> MAS200SQL workstation setup on a new Windows Vista machine, to enable
> that workstation to log in to MAS200 on their network. The user
> previously had a Windows XP w/station, which is what MAS supports.
> Typically, the workstation setup executable places an icon on the
> desktop and from there you click on the MAS desktop icon to open the
> program. However in this case, it immediately throws the error
> referenced (and that is all it says), and your only option then is to
> select "OK", and then the error disappears and you are back on the
> desktop.

I'm sure Andrew will have some useful answers for you but I wanted to
pop in with some thoughts. We see this sort of thing all the time with
clients using specialized software. Your MAS2000 is *very* specialized
software. There are actual companies who do nothing but set up and
support MAS. It's complex. You are going to need to bump this up to your
higher tier tech support for the client and not be surprised when they
come back with "it's not supported on Vista. Period.". Most of the
problems with older software and Vista are caused by 1) the older
software wanting to write to forbidden and/or non-existent areas of the
hard drive 2) the older software not conforming to the OS's permissions
scheme. I'm not a programmer, but that error message certainly sounds
like the program has got itself in a twist and can't recover.

For a realistic answer, the client is going to need to get back to XP
Pro on that box and take Vista off. If MAS2000 isn't supported on Vista,
it isn't supported. I very much doubt it will be a simple fix. If your
company is considering supporting Vista, I'm sure your programmers are
working hard on the next version.

Your company is lucky to have such a dedicated worker who will go the
extra mile to try and support its customers.


Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

 

[Andrew McLaren]

Hi Ridegback,

Thanks for the extra details, it's appreciated. And, sorry if I sounded
uber-geek ... folks of all proficiency levels are welcome here. As a
professional support person, you are way ahead of most end-users - so hold
your head high

However, I have hit a dead end on the Error 291 message. The Sage Software
guys may be correct that the error is coming from Windows but if so, it is
an extremely rare and not-well-documented error. Some Windows errors are
very well-known: every PC tech support guy knows "Error 5" (access denied)
and "0xC0000005" (access violation) off the top of their head. But I don't
recall ever seeing an "Error 291". The only reference I can find in the
Microsoft KnowledgeBase is an article about DDE (Dynamic Data Exchange)
between Microsoft Access and Excel in Office 2000:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/210481
If the Sage Software uses Access as a back-end database, or if it uses DDE,
then this may be related. Certainly many applications which use DDE to
exchange data fail on Vista, when they worked on XP (due to tighter
security DDE is an old and very insecure form of inter-process
communication).

The only other "error 291" I can find in Windows is in Winerror.h (the
source code file which contains all standard Windows error messages):

ERROR_HUNG_DISPLAY_DRIVER_THREAD
# {Display Driver Stopped Responding}
# The %hs display driver has stopped working normally. Save
# your work and reboot the system to restore full display
# functionality.
# The next time you reboot the machine a dialog will be
# displayed giving you a chance to report this failure to
# Microsoft.
# as an HRESULT: Severity: SUCCESS (0), FACILITY_NULL (0x0), Code 0x291
# for hex 0x291 / decimal 657

.... but that doesn't sound like it applies to your problem scenario I think
it's irrelevant. Likewise, the error 291 in NTStatus.h, which is the source
code file for all NT kernel status codes:

STATUS_PROCESS_NOT_IN_JOB
# The specified process is not part of a job.

I am sure this error does not apply to your scenario the Sage software
almost certainly does not use the NT Job object (a very obscure feature of
Windows NT).

To investigate further ... well, you could try starting the Sage application
from a command prompt, instead of double-clicking the desktop icon. It might
print some diagnostic messages to the console, which you don't see
otherwise. Or say to the Sage support guys "Okay I acceopt that Error 631
Statement 6130" is a Windows error messge - but what part of Windows does it
come from?" and see if they have any clue.

You can also try checking the Windows Event Log - go to Control Panel,
Classic View, Administrative Tools, Event Viewer, Windows Logs, and check
under Application and System event logs. If there really is any kind of
error at the operating system level (and not just some application-defined
error) then it will probably be logged here. That won't give you an
immediate answer, but it will give you more background information about the
problem to work with.

It would probably be possible to analyse the error by launching the
application in a debugger. This is not as geeky or difficult as it sounds
.... but we'd really need to be sitting in front of the PC together, not
discussing it via a newsgroup. If you have any third-level support in your
organisation, they might have the requisite debugging skills.

At the end of the proverbial day, if Sage say their app doesn't run on
Vista, then it doesn't run on Vista - end of story. You can make a
reasonable effort to get it working but no-one can give any iron-clad
assurance it's going to ever work, in the absence of vendor support. If all
else fails, install the Sage software on an XP machine instead. If the user
doesn't have a spare PC laying around, they could download and install
Virtual PC from Microsoft:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/virtualpc/default.mspx
This is a free add-on for Windows XP and Vista. It lets you run a "virtual"
PC, in a window, on your Vista desktop, so you can have XP and Vista running
at the same time, side by side, on the same machine. After the user installs
Virtual PC, they create a new XP Virtual Machine, and then install the Sage
Software into their Virtual XP PC. Providing a platform for legacy
applications which cannot run on Vista is one of the core scenarios for
Virtual PC: it's designed to handle exactly this task.

Sorry I don't have better info for you , maybe other folks in the newgroup
will have additonal info and ideas. Good luck with it!

--
Andrew McLaren
amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au

 

[Andrew McLaren]

"Malke" <notreally@invalid.invalid> wrote
> clients using specialized software. Your MAS2000 is *very* specialized
> software. There are actual companies who do nothing but set up and
<snip>
> Pro on that box and take Vista off. If MAS2000 isn't supported on Vista,
> it isn't supported. I very much doubt it will be a simple fix. If your
> company is considering supporting Vista, I'm sure your programmers are
> working hard on the next version.

Actually, Malke is spot-on here I agree totally. I am not familiar with
MAS200 but a quick squizz on the Sage website shows it is *not* a trivial
application!!

Important business applications are not good candidates for running on
unsupported platforms.

> Your company is lucky to have such a dedicated worker who will go the
> extra mile to try and support its customers.

I agree with this, too!

Cheers,
--
Andrew McLaren
amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au

 

[Mr. Arnold]

"ridgeback" <ridgeback.2txtrg@DoNotSpam.com> wrote in message
news:ridgeback.2txtrg@DoNotSpam.com...
>
> Trying to help a client who is running Sage MAS200 SQL Ver 3.71 on a new
> Windows Vista (Ultimate) workstation. Vista OS for this version of MAS
> is currently not supported by Sage Software, so I cannot get a
> definition of this error, as they say it is not a MAS error but rather
> a Windows error. Can anyone explain what this error message means?
>

The software is not Vista compliant then it's not Vista compliant. And it is
not compliant and it's blowing up. You can't hope it or force it to run, and
the vendor is not coming up with any workaround so that the solution is
going to run on Vista.

This link talks about what is compliant with Vista.

http://www.blytheco.com/software/new.asp

Your solutions are go to be go to the Vista version and install it on Vista,
check with the vendor as to when it's going to be ready, use a virtual
machine (free) to install XP and the legacy application in parallel with
Vista, or find a XP machine and install the application on it.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/virtualpc/default.mspx

 

[ridgeback]

Thank you so much to all who responded to my posting. I very much
appreciate the input and the fact that you all took the time to reply.


I was able to get hold of one of the top level engineers/programmers at
Sage who gave me some suggestions to try......but you are right...this
version of MAS200SQL will never be supported in Vista, end of story,
because of the tremendous amount of back engineering that would have to
be done in security files and various MAS dll's that are impacted by
Vista's new setup. Sage recommended pulling Vista off the machine and
restoring the Windows XP OS. The IT guy at the client site was a bit
surprised at this, but that's his choice I guess.

Also, I will forward on the suggestion of setting up virtual locations
that can run the application.

Thank you again to all. Have a great day.


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[Malke]

ridgeback wrote:
> Thank you so much to all who responded to my posting. I very much
> appreciate the input and the fact that you all took the time to reply.
>
>
> I was able to get hold of one of the top level engineers/programmers at
> Sage who gave me some suggestions to try......but you are right...this
> version of MAS200SQL will never be supported in Vista, end of story,
> because of the tremendous amount of back engineering that would have to
> be done in security files and various MAS dll's that are impacted by
> Vista's new setup. Sage recommended pulling Vista off the machine and
> restoring the Windows XP OS. The IT guy at the client site was a bit
> surprised at this, but that's his choice I guess.
>
> Also, I will forward on the suggestion of setting up virtual locations
> that can run the application.
>
> Thank you again to all. Have a great day.
>
>

Thanks for posting back with this information. You did a great job for
your client and your company.


Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

 

[ridgeback]

Malke -
Thank you for your kind words. Have a great day.


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