Win98 on new computer

[teebo]

Hi I'm about to buy a new computer and like to run windows 98 on it,
but are there any hardware I should avoid ?
(that don't have needed drivers for windows98 etc)

Do win98 work with pci-express?


I think I would like to build something like this:
motherboard: ASUS M2V VIA K8T890 S-AM2 GBLAN ATX
graphics card: ASUS EXTREME GEFORCE 7600GS SILENT 256MB PCI-E
processor: AMD ATHLON 64 3800+ SOCKET AM2 512KB BOX
memory: CORSAIR 2GB DDR2 PC6400 XMS2 XTREME (2X1GB) CAS4

Would there be any problems getting win98 work with this?

 

[98 Guy]

teebo wrote:

> Do win98 work with pci-express?

I tried to get several different Nvidia PCI-e boards to work under
win-98se, but was never able to.

> I think I would like to build something like this:
> motherboard: ASUS M2V VIA K8T890 S-AM2 GBLAN ATX
> graphics card: ASUS EXTREME GEFORCE 7600GS SILENT 256MB PCI-E

I believe that was one of the video cards I tried. It has no fan -
just a big heat sink.

PCI-e has a "feature" called turbo-cache, which allows the video card
to steal some main system memory as a substitute for having more of
it's own memory. Not all boards have this (perhaps only "cheapo
boards"). There was a working theory that any PCI-e boards that have
this "turbo-cache" will not be compatible with win-98. To add to
that, it is not straight forward to tell (by Nvidia model number) what
boards have it and which don't.

> processor: AMD ATHLON 64 3800+ SOCKET AM2 512KB BOX
> memory: CORSAIR 2GB DDR2 PC6400 XMS2 XTREME (2X1GB) CAS4

> Would there be any problems getting win98 work with this?

I think you're going to get stopped by the PCI-e. You *might* have
some luck with ATI PCI-e cards.

I've installed win-98 on an ASRock Dual-VSTA motherboard. It has AGP
and PCI-e slots.

Check Asus and VIA web sites for drivers. Download the chipset
drivers from both locations and examine them for win-98 install files.

If the machine is going to be used only for win-98, then don't waste
your money on a dual-core CPU. As well, anything more than 512mb of
ram probably won't be useful.

Check out the win-98 forum on MSFN.org. There is also another
web-forum that deals only with video cards (I forget the URL) but it
is sometimes mentioned in some MSFN threads.

 

[Ron Badour]

You are unlikely to find W98 drivers for your new hardware so I would not
count on being able to run W98 as the sole system. You could try XP or
Vista and then run W98 in VirtualPC 2007 (that is what I do with my MCE of
Windows).
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...02-3199-48a3-afa2-2dc0b40a73b6&DisplayLang=en
--
Regards

Ron Badour
MS MVP 1997 - 2007


"teebo" <no@mail.no> wrote in message newsp.tvov78nwbr8ivg@300pl...
> Hi I'm about to buy a new computer and like to run windows 98 on it,
> but are there any hardware I should avoid ?
> (that don't have needed drivers for windows98 etc)
>
> Do win98 work with pci-express?
>
>
> I think I would like to build something like this:
> motherboard: ASUS M2V VIA K8T890 S-AM2 GBLAN ATX
> graphics card: ASUS EXTREME GEFORCE 7600GS SILENT 256MB PCI-E
> processor: AMD ATHLON 64 3800+ SOCKET AM2 512KB BOX
> memory: CORSAIR 2GB DDR2 PC6400 XMS2 XTREME (2X1GB) CAS4
>
> Would there be any problems getting win98 work with this?
>

 

[Don Phillipson]

"Ron Badour" <Sorry@NoAddress.com> wrote in message
news:OeVq0rbyHHA.988@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> You are unlikely to find W98 drivers for your new hardware so I would not
> count on being able to run W98 as the sole system. You could try XP or
> Vista and then run W98 in VirtualPC 2007 (that is what I do with my MCE of
> Windows).
>
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...02-3199-48a3-afa2-2dc0b40a73b6&DisplayLang=en

The MS KB has (3) references to VirtualPC for WinXP
but (today) none for Vista, which implies VirtualPC
is not supported by Vista.

The WinXP references suggest the documentation is
in XPS format which perhaps Win98 cannot read.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

 

[dadiOH]

Don Phillipson wrote:
> "Ron Badour" <Sorry@NoAddress.com> wrote in message
> news:OeVq0rbyHHA.988@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
>> You are unlikely to find W98 drivers for your new hardware so I
>> would not count on being able to run W98 as the sole system. You
>> could try XP or Vista and then run W98 in VirtualPC 2007 (that is
>> what I do with my MCE of Windows).
>>
>
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=04d26402-3199
-48a3-afa2-2dc0b40a73b6&DisplayLang=en
>
> The MS KB has (3) references to VirtualPC for WinXP
> but (today) none for Vista, which implies VirtualPC
> is not supported by Vista.

Supported Operating Systems: Windows Server 2003, Standard Edition
(32-bit x86) Windows Server 2003, Standard x64 Edition Windows Vista
Business Windows Vista Business 64-bit edition Windows Vista
Enterprise Windows Vista Enterprise 64-bit edition Windows Vista
Ultimate Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit edition Windows XP
Professional Edition Windows XP Professional x64 Edition Windows
XP Tablet PC Edition

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

 

[MEB]

"dadiOH" <dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote in message
news:OoCGp2gyHHA.4392@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
| Don Phillipson wrote:
| > "Ron Badour" <Sorry@NoAddress.com> wrote in message
| > news:OeVq0rbyHHA.988@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
| >
| >> You are unlikely to find W98 drivers for your new hardware so I
| >> would not count on being able to run W98 as the sole system. You
| >> could try XP or Vista and then run W98 in VirtualPC 2007 (that is
| >> what I do with my MCE of Windows).
| >>
| >
| http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=04d26402-3199
| -48a3-afa2-2dc0b40a73b6&DisplayLang=en
| >
| > The MS KB has (3) references to VirtualPC for WinXP
| > but (today) none for Vista, which implies VirtualPC
| > is not supported by Vista.
|
| Supported Operating Systems: Windows Server 2003, Standard Edition
| (32-bit x86) Windows Server 2003, Standard x64 Edition Windows Vista
| Business Windows Vista Business 64-bit edition Windows Vista
| Enterprise Windows Vista Enterprise 64-bit edition Windows Vista
| Ultimate Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit edition Windows XP
| Professional Edition Windows XP Professional x64 Edition Windows
| XP Tablet PC Edition
|
| --
|
| dadiOH
| ____________________________
|
| dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
| ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
| LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
| Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
|
|
|

I was under the impression that use of such within VISTA would violate the
Support Agreement/EULA.. seems that has been presented in the VISTA forums
....

 

[dadiOH]

MEB wrote:
> "dadiOH" <dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote in message
> news:OoCGp2gyHHA.4392@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> Don Phillipson wrote:
>>> "Ron Badour" <Sorry@NoAddress.com> wrote in message
>>> news:OeVq0rbyHHA.988@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>> You are unlikely to find W98 drivers for your new hardware so I
>>>> would not count on being able to run W98 as the sole system. You
>>>> could try XP or Vista and then run W98 in VirtualPC 2007 (that is
>>>> what I do with my MCE of Windows).
>>>>
>>>
>>
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=04d26402-3199
>> -48a3-afa2-2dc0b40a73b6&DisplayLang=en
>>>
>>> The MS KB has (3) references to VirtualPC for WinXP
>>> but (today) none for Vista, which implies VirtualPC
>>> is not supported by Vista.
>>
>> Supported Operating Systems: Windows Server 2003, Standard Edition
>> (32-bit x86) Windows Server 2003, Standard x64 Edition Windows
>> Vista Business Windows Vista Business 64-bit edition Windows
>> Vista Enterprise Windows Vista Enterprise 64-bit edition Windows
>> Vista Ultimate Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit edition Windows XP
>> Professional Edition Windows XP Professional x64 Edition
>> Windows XP Tablet PC Edition

> I was under the impression that use of such within VISTA would
> violate the Support Agreement/EULA.. seems that has been presented
> in the VISTA forums ...

No idea, it was a copy & paste from the MS site that Ron Badour
linked.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

 

[MEB]

"dadiOH" <dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote in message
news:OEY95jiyHHA.3772@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
| MEB wrote:
| > "dadiOH" <dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote in message
| > news:OoCGp2gyHHA.4392@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
| >> Don Phillipson wrote:
| >>> "Ron Badour" <Sorry@NoAddress.com> wrote in message
| >>> news:OeVq0rbyHHA.988@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
| >>>
| >>>> You are unlikely to find W98 drivers for your new hardware so I
| >>>> would not count on being able to run W98 as the sole system. You
| >>>> could try XP or Vista and then run W98 in VirtualPC 2007 (that is
| >>>> what I do with my MCE of Windows).
| >>>>
| >>>
| >>
| http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=04d26402-3199
| >> -48a3-afa2-2dc0b40a73b6&DisplayLang=en
| >>>
| >>> The MS KB has (3) references to VirtualPC for WinXP
| >>> but (today) none for Vista, which implies VirtualPC
| >>> is not supported by Vista.
| >>
| >> Supported Operating Systems: Windows Server 2003, Standard Edition
| >> (32-bit x86) Windows Server 2003, Standard x64 Edition Windows
| >> Vista Business Windows Vista Business 64-bit edition Windows
| >> Vista Enterprise Windows Vista Enterprise 64-bit edition Windows
| >> Vista Ultimate Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit edition Windows XP
| >> Professional Edition Windows XP Professional x64 Edition
| >> Windows XP Tablet PC Edition
|
| > I was under the impression that use of such within VISTA would
| > violate the Support Agreement/EULA.. seems that has been presented
| > in the VISTA forums ...
|
| No idea, it was a copy & paste from the MS site that Ron Badour
| linked.
|
| --
|
| dadiOH
| ____________________________
|
| dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
| ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
| LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
| Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
|

Oh, okay,, it just struck me as strange to see one thing posted here, and
the opposite in those forums...

 

[teebo]

> I tried to get several different Nvidia PCI-e boards to work under
> win-98se, but was never able to.

Hmmm :-(

did you used the driver at http://www.mdgx.com/files/nv8269.php
or the other one (http://www.nvworld.ru/drivers/old/WideWin9x.rar) ?

>> I think I would like to build something like this:
>> graphics card: ASUS EXTREME GEFORCE 7600GS SILENT 256MB PCI-E
> I believe that was one of the video cards I tried. It has no fan -
> just a big heat sink.

yes. And I think there is a 512Mb overclocked version of it
with heatsinks (and heatpipes) on the backside too.
(btw, will windows98 have any problems with too much memory on
a graphics card? like it consumes normal memory space or so?)

> PCI-e has a "feature" called turbo-cache, which allows the video card
> to steal some main system memory as a substitute for having more of
> it's own memory. Not all boards have this (perhaps only "cheapo

mmm.. there seems to be a bunch of 64Mb geforce6xxx-cards that
do that now.

> boards"). There was a working theory that any PCI-e boards that have
> this "turbo-cache" will not be compatible with win-98. To add to
> that, it is not straight forward to tell (by Nvidia model number) what
> boards have it and which don't.

I have looked at ASUS pages and searched on the net and thankfully
there is no mention of that the card I want have turbo-cache.

> I've installed win-98 on an ASRock Dual-VSTA motherboard. It has AGP
> and PCI-e slots.

both graphics slots on the same motherboard? cooool....

> Check Asus and VIA web sites for drivers. Download the chipset
> drivers from both locations and examine them for win-98 install files.

ok I will

> If the machine is going to be used only for win-98, then don't waste
> your money on a dual-core CPU. As well, anything more than 512mb of
> ram probably won't be useful.

I think I shuold go non dual-core (but the 2 gigs are for other
operating systems)

The big problem that hit me now is that the processor I liked,
AMD64 3800+ 65nm/45W (less heat=more silent) have something
called 'Stepping G1' but the motherboard is listed as having
'Stepping F2' on amd's webpage.

....so I guess I have to find another mother board? :'-(

> web-forum that deals only with video cards (I forget the URL) but it
> is sometimes mentioned in some MSFN threads.

Hmm.. I see if I find it

 

[Stanislaw Flatto]

MEB wrote:
>
> I was under the impression that use of such within VISTA would violate the
> Support Agreement/EULA.. seems that has been presented in the VISTA forums
> ...
>
Using a computer is in conflict with EULA!

Have fun

Stanislaw
Linux and Win98SE user from Ulladulla.

 

[teebo]

> Using a computer is in conflict with EULA!
>

:-D

thankfully this sort of 'broken seal' licenses have
no legal value in the country I live.
And I do not want to run win98 in an emulator anyway,
instead I have to find hardware that have drivers that
works with win98se.

There is unofficial drivers for new Nvidia graphics cards
(with pci-express support too), http://www.mdgx.com/files/nv8269.php
but not for all cards, 98Guy say I should avoid cards
with turbo-cache (but turbo-cache is a bad idea anyway),
I must avoid 'bad' cards. Since I don't buy in a shop I can't
just go back with the hardware if it don't work.

A bigger problem is the motherboard, not all of them play
well with win98 I heard. I think I should avoid nvidia mother
boards. Are there anyone here that knows about the others?

VIA have good support for win98, but the one motherboard I found
(with ok price and features like 2 ata-slots, and no internal
graphics) that my normal webshop have...
....don't work (I think?) with the processor I want :-(

I want the have the 65nm (45W) one, that will generate
less heat and still have good speed. (AMD calls it ADH3800DEBOX)
but that processors is "Stepping: G1"
On amd:s pages there is a 'Recomended Motherboards' page
http://www2.amd.com/gb-uk/Processors/TechnicalResources/1,,30_182_869_9460^9461,00.html?1175095829
that don't list the motherboard 'ASUS M2V VIA K8T890 S-AM2 GBLAN ATX'
as stepping G1, only F2

is it just they have not tested it with G1, or is
the chipset not compatible with G1 or something else on the
motherboard not capable of handling G1 ?

 

[Lil' Dave]

"teebo" <no@mail.no> wrote in message newsp.tvov78nwbr8ivg@300pl...
> Hi I'm about to buy a new computer and like to run windows 98 on it,
> but are there any hardware I should avoid ?
> (that don't have needed drivers for windows98 etc)

Below indicates a build of a PC, not buying a new computer.

>
> Do win98 work with pci-express?

No.

>
>
> I think I would like to build something like this:
> motherboard: ASUS M2V VIA K8T890 S-AM2 GBLAN ATX
> graphics card: ASUS EXTREME GEFORCE 7600GS SILENT 256MB PCI-E
> processor: AMD ATHLON 64 3800+ SOCKET AM2 512KB BOX
> memory: CORSAIR 2GB DDR2 PC6400 XMS2 XTREME (2X1GB) CAS4
>
> Would there be any problems getting win98 work with this?
>

Bottom line. Pci-E is out. System needs tweaking to map out RAM above
512MB. Not sure about 64bit hardware. Need to research availablility of
98/98SE drivers for any recently made core and peripheral hardware before
buying. By "core", I mean the motherboard and video card. The core
hardware may run in a crippled fashion unless drivers are available and
installed. Some recent internal and external peripheral hardware may not
run at all as drivers are not available for 98/98SE.
Dave

 

[Bob Harris]

You seem to be describing year-2007 hardware, something way beyond the
minimums for XP, maybe good enough to run Vista.

It is hard to believe that 98 will run on this, or if does that it could
possibly make full use of all that hardware.

For example, 98 is more limited than XP in how much RAM it can use. Under
512 Meg, no problem. 512 Meg to 1 Gig 98 needs some "adjustments" to
funciton. Beyond 1 Gig may not work or extra RAM may just be ignored.

PCI express? That is way too new for 98, unless the video card maker
explicitly says that it will work and that they provide drivers. To be
honest it is hard to imagine any video card maker investing the time to
write PCI-X drivers for 98.

Processor? I have heard that there may be some upper limit of CPUs for 98.
Also, why get a 64-bit capable processor, when 98 is a 32-bit operating
system?

Have you tried checking the support websites of the specified hardware for
what operating systems they support? Or, download the associated manuals,
which may contain that information, or search their websites for
98-compatible dirvers. Hint: if no drivers, likely the hardware is not
98-compatible.

Overall, I suggest that you either think about using XP (or a modern LINUX)
for this hardware, or get much older (thus cheaper) hardware, if you
absolutely must use 98. I had a friend build a nice 98 machine using
Intel's D865GBF motherboard, which is of the vintage (2002-2003). It still
work fine.


"teebo" <no@mail.no> wrote in message newsp.tvov78nwbr8ivg@300pl...
> Hi I'm about to buy a new computer and like to run windows 98 on it,
> but are there any hardware I should avoid ?
> (that don't have needed drivers for windows98 etc)
>
> Do win98 work with pci-express?
>
>
> I think I would like to build something like this:
> motherboard: ASUS M2V VIA K8T890 S-AM2 GBLAN ATX
> graphics card: ASUS EXTREME GEFORCE 7600GS SILENT 256MB PCI-E
> processor: AMD ATHLON 64 3800+ SOCKET AM2 512KB BOX
> memory: CORSAIR 2GB DDR2 PC6400 XMS2 XTREME (2X1GB) CAS4
>
> Would there be any problems getting win98 work with this?
>

 

[98 Guy]

Bob Harris wrote:

> It is hard to believe that 98 will run on this, or if does that
> it could possibly make full use of all that hardware.

It all depends on the chipset. Intel stopped supporting win-98 at
ICH5 (or was it ICH6?).

As I've discovered a few months ago, there are some current
motherboards with VIA chipsets that seem to work fine and have great
win-98 support - even for SATA and RAID drives.

> PCI express? That is way too new for 98,

The wierd thing is that on my Asrock motherboard, I do have a PCI-PCIe
bridge driver installed, but have never gotten a PCI-e card to work.
What I've read about PCI-e is that at a driver level, it's practically
identical to AGP (was designed that way to make it easier for vendors
to make the transition to PCI-e).

Aside from PCI-e (which I believe some have claimed that some pci-e
ATI boards do work), the only other show-stopper for win-98 is the
newer high-definition audio component that has replaced the
traditional on-board audio.

> To be honest it is hard to imagine any video card maker
> investing the time to write PCI-X drivers for 98.

Like I said, from what I've read, PCI-e and AGP are very similar at
the driver level - perhaps identical.

> Processor? I have heard that there may be some upper limit of
> CPUs for 98.

Um, no. Don't get me started on that again. It's been hashed here
before.

 

[teebo]

> Below indicates a build of a PC, not buying a new computer.

oups, when I say 'buy' I mean 'buy the parts and put them together' :-}
I guess there must be people that buy prebuilt computers too...
hmm... I never do, and besides I allready have a nice box
and harddisks etc, I want my parts to be standard, the prebuilt
computers don't allways do. (although I think they were worse
at this some years ago)

>> Do win98 work with pci-express?
>
> No.

I guess the answer is some pci-express cards, not all :-/
and the nvidia ones use the tweaked unofficial NV8269 driver

(so I assume I must verify that the card below is one
of the working ones before I buy, somehow)

>> I think I would like to build something like this:
>> motherboard: ASUS M2V VIA K8T890 S-AM2 GBLAN ATX
>> graphics card: ASUS EXTREME GEFORCE 7600GS SILENT 256MB PCI-E
>> processor: AMD ATHLON 64 3800+ SOCKET AM2 512KB BOX
>> memory: CORSAIR 2GB DDR2 PC6400 XMS2 XTREME (2X1GB) CAS4
>>
>> Would there be any problems getting win98 work with this?
>>
>
> Bottom line. Pci-E is out. System needs tweaking to map out RAM above

ohh.. I'm not afraid of some tweaking. I allways change lots of things
in windows anyway. (why must all windowsversions have their default
setting just opposite what I like? why must microsoft allways
try to make things be like the previous version of mac?)

And yes I know (now) that memory over 1 GB can't be used with win98se
even with all the paches/service packs and tweaks (but it would be
nice if it would be possible to have the swapfile in a ramdisk
there or *something* but ok...)

> 512MB. Not sure about 64bit hardware. Need to research availablility of

yes win98 don't use the 64bit, but amd64 is fully fullspeed 32bit too
so it's ok. Besides that they don't sell 32bit-only anymore, my hardware
choices is just partly based on win98's need. Sure it must be able to
run win98 and dos, but it should support the future too!
I'm do not intend to buy a new motherboard or processor the nearest
ten years. Sure I will buy new harddisk and perhaps a new graphics
card somewhere in the future but not motherboard. I willl probably get
more memory too (for linux), this motherboard supports 8Gb and I think
that "ought to be enough for anybody" :-D

> 98/98SE drivers for any recently made core and peripheral hardware before
> buying. By "core", I mean the motherboard and video card. The core

via seems to be a nice company (to win98)
and I'm very grateful to the persons that have fixed the nvidia drivers

> hardware may run in a crippled fashion unless drivers are available and
> installed. Some recent internal and external peripheral hardware may not
> run at all as drivers are not available for 98/98SE.

Yep, it is a lot harder to buy hardware this days. both to avoid
drm-crippled hardware and to verify they work ok in win9x.
But it is a lot easier with all yours help, so I hope you don't
think I abuse you or wear out your brains with (too) long newsposts