Clean Boot?

[Jim]

What is the importance of disabling the Config.sys and Autoexec.bat screens
in msconfig.exe? Some computers will not start without Config.sys.

Also, when creating a "clean environment" in Diagnostic selection for
analysis the Config.sys and Autoexec.bat are enabled and the System.ini and
Win.ini are disabled. Using step-by-step confirmation technique and not
enabling the Config.sys and Autoexec.bat as part of the analysis.

I recently performed this procedure when referring to kb891711 and the
mouse behavior. tia

 

[Don Phillipson]

"Jim" <invalid@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:egi5JZoyHHA.5964@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> What is the importance of disabling the Config.sys and Autoexec.bat
screens
> in msconfig.exe? Some computers will not start without Config.sys.

Config.sys and Autoexec.bat are "legacy items" in Win98.
Win 95 needed them for certain functions before Win95
loaded. Windows 98 handles all these functions itself
(e.g. manages CD drives itself, not needing DOS drivers
as Win95 used to.)

The simplest trial is to rename these two files something
else and reboot Win98. In standard installations, this
loads everything Windows requires.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

 

[Gary S. Terhune]

Never heard of a 98 system that won't boot without Config.sys. but, in any
case, you should be able to boot into Safe Mode and re-enable it should it
cause problems. I don't understand your second paragraph. Is there a
question there, or are you simply clarifying the forst paragraph??

--

Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com

"Jim" <invalid@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:egi5JZoyHHA.5964@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> What is the importance of disabling the Config.sys and Autoexec.bat
> screens
> in msconfig.exe? Some computers will not start without Config.sys.
>
> Also, when creating a "clean environment" in Diagnostic selection for
> analysis the Config.sys and Autoexec.bat are enabled and the System.ini
> and
> Win.ini are disabled. Using step-by-step confirmation technique and not
> enabling the Config.sys and Autoexec.bat as part of the analysis.
>
> I recently performed this procedure when referring to kb891711 and the
> mouse behavior. tia
>
>

 

[Jim]

Ok., it works even if the Autoexec and Config are disabled in System
Configuration Utility [Msconfig.exe] and System.ini and Win.ini are enabled.
However*, the instructions in winhelp for win98se is to use the Diagnostic
selection and Advanced options for troubleshooting in a user created "clean
environment". Your article in Grystmill says to disable the Config.sys and
Autoexec.bat in order to create a "clean" windows environment. Why does this
matter?
"Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:Ogzj0QtyHHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Never heard of a 98 system that won't boot without Config.sys. but, in any
> case, you should be able to boot into Safe Mode and re-enable it should
it
> cause problems. I don't understand your second paragraph. Is there a
> question there, or are you simply clarifying the forst paragraph??
>
> --
>
> Gary S. Terhune
> MS-MVP Shell/User
> http://www.grystmill.com
>
> "Jim" <invalid@example.invalid> wrote in message
> news:egi5JZoyHHA.5964@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> > What is the importance of disabling the Config.sys and Autoexec.bat
> > screens
> > in msconfig.exe? Some computers will not start without Config.sys.
> >
> > Also, when creating a "clean environment" in Diagnostic selection for
> > analysis the Config.sys and Autoexec.bat are enabled and the System.ini
> > and
> > Win.ini are disabled. Using step-by-step confirmation technique and not
> > enabling the Config.sys and Autoexec.bat as part of the analysis.
> >
> > I recently performed this procedure when referring to kb891711 and the
> > mouse behavior. tia
> >
> >
>
>

 

[Jim]

Noted. [this is where I am stuck on a laptop with a usb 2.0 cdrom] stick
around I am getting to that part.
"Don Phillipson" <d.phillipsonSPAMBLOCK@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:e40rUEtyHHA.1072@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> "Jim" <invalid@example.invalid> wrote in message
> news:egi5JZoyHHA.5964@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
> > What is the importance of disabling the Config.sys and Autoexec.bat
> screens
> > in msconfig.exe? Some computers will not start without Config.sys.
>
> Config.sys and Autoexec.bat are "legacy items" in Win98.
> Win 95 needed them for certain functions before Win95
> loaded. Windows 98 handles all these functions itself
> (e.g. manages CD drives itself, not needing DOS drivers
> as Win95 used to.)
>
> The simplest trial is to rename these two files something
> else and reboot Win98. In standard installations, this
> loads everything Windows requires.
>
> --
> Don Phillipson
> Carlsbad Springs
> (Ottawa, Canada)
>
>

 

[Lil' Dave]

"Jim" <invalid@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:egi5JZoyHHA.5964@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> What is the importance of disabling the Config.sys and Autoexec.bat
> screens
> in msconfig.exe? Some computers will not start without Config.sys.
>

Bottom line. If the PC needs something in the dos environment before
starting windows, you don't disable it. One example is expanded memory for
some 3rd party applications that need it in windows. Such can be disabled
for troubleshooting win98 itself though.

98 has a hardwritten config.sys in that it always loads himem.sys for high
memory (extended) operation. Disabling config.sys will not prevent this
from happening.

Don't know of any example of a PC not booting if config.sys is not present.

Dave

 

[Gary S. Terhune]

Because some application may be launched using those files, and you want all
optional applications to be disabled. Note that certain diagnostics that
require selective or total disabling of Win.ini or System.ini aren't part of
my article's intent. My article only addresses the needs of
installation/uninstallation and maintenance operations and to suggest one
way to diagnose issues with background applications.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com

"Jim" <invalid@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:OuWm$9tyHHA.600@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Ok., it works even if the Autoexec and Config are disabled in System
> Configuration Utility [Msconfig.exe] and System.ini and Win.ini are
> enabled.
> However*, the instructions in winhelp for win98se is to use the Diagnostic
> selection and Advanced options for troubleshooting in a user created
> "clean
> environment". Your article in Grystmill says to disable the Config.sys and
> Autoexec.bat in order to create a "clean" windows environment. Why does
> this
> matter?
> "Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:Ogzj0QtyHHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Never heard of a 98 system that won't boot without Config.sys. but, in
>> any
>> case, you should be able to boot into Safe Mode and re-enable it should
> it
>> cause problems. I don't understand your second paragraph. Is there a
>> question there, or are you simply clarifying the forst paragraph??
>>
>> --
>>
>> Gary S. Terhune
>> MS-MVP Shell/User
>> http://www.grystmill.com
>>
>> "Jim" <invalid@example.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:egi5JZoyHHA.5964@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> > What is the importance of disabling the Config.sys and Autoexec.bat
>> > screens
>> > in msconfig.exe? Some computers will not start without Config.sys.
>> >
>> > Also, when creating a "clean environment" in Diagnostic selection for
>> > analysis the Config.sys and Autoexec.bat are enabled and the System.ini
>> > and
>> > Win.ini are disabled. Using step-by-step confirmation technique and not
>> > enabling the Config.sys and Autoexec.bat as part of the analysis.
>> >
>> > I recently performed this procedure when referring to kb891711 and the
>> > mouse behavior. tia
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

 

[Jim]

Interesting, I have been experiencing that "hardwrite" and wondering about
that winhelp in diagnostic help.

This post is spreading out amongst many knowledgeable people... I have a
laptop that I want to recover and the EBD dosboot allowed me recover win98
even after woking with reformated drive, and a disk imaging program that
would not transfer to the HDD, but did allow an editor that enabled these
config.sys and autoexec.bat files to exececute and reconfigure system.ini
and win.ini. I also have a win98se cd upgrade disk. The cdrom is a UHCI
driven and requires a floppy diskette. It works now but in device manager
there are problem devices. Namely IRQ 9 is overburden with devices on PCI
bus and residue of a Sound Blaster pro that was used previously. Most folks
would just write it off and pitch it but I feel there is a way to ressurect
and put to some use this laptop.
"Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
news:udrwgBuyHHA.4928@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> "Jim" <invalid@example.invalid> wrote in message
> news:egi5JZoyHHA.5964@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> > What is the importance of disabling the Config.sys and Autoexec.bat
> > screens
> > in msconfig.exe? Some computers will not start without Config.sys.
> >
>
> Bottom line. If the PC needs something in the dos environment before
> starting windows, you don't disable it. One example is expanded memory
for
> some 3rd party applications that need it in windows. Such can be disabled
> for troubleshooting win98 itself though.
>
> 98 has a hardwritten config.sys in that it always loads himem.sys for high
> memory (extended) operation. Disabling config.sys will not prevent this
> from happening.
>
> Don't know of any example of a PC not booting if config.sys is not
present.
>
> Dave
>
>

 

[Don Phillipson]

"Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
news:udrwgBuyHHA.4928@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> Bottom line. If the PC needs something in the dos environment before
> starting windows, you don't disable it. One example is expanded memory
for
> some 3rd party applications that need it in windows.

Can you name any 3d party apps that require that DOS EXPanded
memory be enabled in order to run under Win98? (DOS games
of the middle 1990s that needed EXP memory seem to run
better and more smoothly under Win98.)

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

 

[Jim]

I am not a gamer. I don't know. This is a bit like a dosgame though.

The USB 2.0 needs a floppy that is dos and it is UHCI driver with some other
component software for Active@ Disk-Image.net program. I had a 6GB and when
working with it in another USB HDD box in an attempt to load the disk image
back on with an xp laptop, it stopped working for me. Replaced with a 4GB
and still no luck with the image software. I used an editor in that program
to enable file images of the System Configuration Utility and it worked. I
now can work in windows but problem devices and it has data from my brothers
previous use, which I want to wipe clean.
"Don Phillipson" <d.phillipsonSPAMBLOCK@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:%23we5vSwyHHA.5484@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
> news:udrwgBuyHHA.4928@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
> > Bottom line. If the PC needs something in the dos environment before
> > starting windows, you don't disable it. One example is expanded memory
> for
> > some 3rd party applications that need it in windows.
>
> Can you name any 3d party apps that require that DOS EXPanded
> memory be enabled in order to run under Win98? (DOS games
> of the middle 1990s that needed EXP memory seem to run
> better and more smoothly under Win98.)
>
> --
> Don Phillipson
> Carlsbad Springs
> (Ottawa, Canada)
>
>

 

[Don Phillipson]

"Jim" <invalid@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:%23$qolIxyHHA.5484@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> I am not a gamer. I don't know. This is a bit like a dosgame though.
>
> The USB 2.0 needs a floppy that is dos and it is UHCI driver with some
other
> component software for Active@ Disk-Image.net program.

Beware . . .
1. What your USB devices need is drivers i.e. OS files.
These files may be stored on a floppy and that floppy
may conveniently formatted for DOS but no USB device.
"needs a floppy that is dos."
2. Device drivers are hardware-specific. You may have
difficulty making a particular program run from a particular
device, but no USB drivers are specific for any particular program.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

 

[Jim]

These are good points, and it is exactly where I am stuck.
The drivers and some app.exe have made the USB device program specific for
that disk image program. I copied over to a EBD [Emergency Boot Diskette]
the driver aspiUHCI.sys and let the program have access to the driver, but
still not working. I also thought that MS win98se upgrade cd would have this
type of driver, but it does not. This is circa 2002 USB 2.0 hi-speed drivers
15-480 MB/sec ...
"Don Phillipson" <d.phillipsonSPAMBLOCK@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:edXR2u7yHHA.3908@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> "Jim" <invalid@example.invalid> wrote in message
> news:%23$qolIxyHHA.5484@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
> > I am not a gamer. I don't know. This is a bit like a dosgame though.
> >
> > The USB 2.0 needs a floppy that is dos and it is UHCI driver with some
> other
> > component software for Active@ Disk-Image.net program.
>
> Beware . . .
> 1. What your USB devices need is drivers i.e. OS files.
> These files may be stored on a floppy and that floppy
> may conveniently formatted for DOS but no USB device.
> "needs a floppy that is dos."
> 2. Device drivers are hardware-specific. You may have
> difficulty making a particular program run from a particular
> device, but no USB drivers are specific for any particular program.
>
> --
> Don Phillipson
> Carlsbad Springs
> (Ottawa, Canada)
>
>

 

[Jeff Richards]

In order to use a USB device from a DOS boot you need to have drivers for
the USB as well as drivers for the device. Getting those drivers setup up
for an EBD requires that the drivers are on the floppy and that they are
correctly referenced from CONFIG.SYS and (possibly) AUTOEXEC.BAT. If the
EBD you are using creates a RAM disk (because the startup files are too
large to fit on a floppy) then configuring the whole disk correctly is quite
difficult, and I would avoid it if possible.

I don't entirely understand your problem, but I do not believe it will be
useful to set up with an EBD disk with drivers for that device. It seems
more likely that you will get it to work under Windows using a simplified
Windows setup and installing the device drivers as provided by the
application supplier. A clean boot startup might be helpful for diagnostic
purposes, but you will need to know how your USB drivers and the drivers for
that USB device are installed and set up within Windows in order to know
what is OK to disable and what's not. It is unlikely that completely
disabling CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT will prevent USB and the device
working, but if the device is specially configured to work with that
software only then anything is possible.

(It's quite possible that the device is provided with a custom driver that
works for that software only - this is common where hardware manufacturers
believe they can improve performance by creating a custom interface, or
possibly for security reasons. In that case the supplier should have
detailed instructions for installing and using the driver in all
circumstances - Windows, DOS boot, etc. There may be other drivers that
allow general access to the device, but if I understand the problem
correctly that's not important for now.)

Note that Windows 98 (original or upgrade) couldn't possibly have the
correct drivers for a device created in 2002 unless that device was
carefully designed to conform to a standard that was in use in 1998. Even
if that was the case, it's likely that W98 would not recognise the device
type and would not be able to find matching default drivers, even if they
existed.

Much sharing of an IRQ isn't a problem provided that all devices are
working. You should uninstall devices that you don't need for the present
task or which aren't working properly. If you can't uninstall them for
some reason, at least diable them.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"Jim" <invalid@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:u9NmA59yHHA.1212@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> These are good points, and it is exactly where I am stuck.
> The drivers and some app.exe have made the USB device program specific for
> that disk image program. I copied over to a EBD [Emergency Boot Diskette]
> the driver aspiUHCI.sys and let the program have access to the driver, but
> still not working. I also thought that MS win98se upgrade cd would have
> this
> type of driver, but it does not. This is circa 2002 USB 2.0 hi-speed
> drivers
> 15-480 MB/sec ...
> "Don Phillipson" <d.phillipsonSPAMBLOCK@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:edXR2u7yHHA.3908@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> "Jim" <invalid@example.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:%23$qolIxyHHA.5484@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>
>> > I am not a gamer. I don't know. This is a bit like a dosgame though.
>> >
>> > The USB 2.0 needs a floppy that is dos and it is UHCI driver with some
>> other
>> > component software for Active@ Disk-Image.net program.
>>
>> Beware . . .
>> 1. What your USB devices need is drivers i.e. OS files.
>> These files may be stored on a floppy and that floppy
>> may conveniently formatted for DOS but no USB device.
>> "needs a floppy that is dos."
>> 2. Device drivers are hardware-specific. You may have
>> difficulty making a particular program run from a particular
>> device, but no USB drivers are specific for any particular program.

 

[Jim]

I will give that windows simplified setup approach a try. ( I believe that
this is a custom software write [floppy] and although the EBD says it only
needs the driver and configuration to autoexec they do need the correct
reference and syntax to work.)
"Jeff Richards" <JRichards@msn.com.au> wrote in message
news:eUkc1T%23yHHA.4276@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> In order to use a USB device from a DOS boot you need to have drivers for
> the USB as well as drivers for the device. Getting those drivers setup up
> for an EBD requires that the drivers are on the floppy and that they are
> correctly referenced from CONFIG.SYS and (possibly) AUTOEXEC.BAT. If the
> EBD you are using creates a RAM disk (because the startup files are too
> large to fit on a floppy) then configuring the whole disk correctly is
quite
> difficult, and I would avoid it if possible.
>
> I don't entirely understand your problem, but I do not believe it will be
> useful to set up with an EBD disk with drivers for that device. It seems
> more likely that you will get it to work under Windows using a simplified
> Windows setup and installing the device drivers as provided by the
> application supplier. A clean boot startup might be helpful for
diagnostic
> purposes, but you will need to know how your USB drivers and the drivers
for
> that USB device are installed and set up within Windows in order to know
> what is OK to disable and what's not. It is unlikely that completely
> disabling CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT will prevent USB and the device
> working, but if the device is specially configured to work with that
> software only then anything is possible.
>
> (It's quite possible that the device is provided with a custom driver that
> works for that software only - this is common where hardware manufacturers
> believe they can improve performance by creating a custom interface, or
> possibly for security reasons. In that case the supplier should have
> detailed instructions for installing and using the driver in all
> circumstances - Windows, DOS boot, etc. There may be other drivers that
> allow general access to the device, but if I understand the problem
> correctly that's not important for now.)
>
> Note that Windows 98 (original or upgrade) couldn't possibly have the
> correct drivers for a device created in 2002 unless that device was
> carefully designed to conform to a standard that was in use in 1998. Even
> if that was the case, it's likely that W98 would not recognise the device
> type and would not be able to find matching default drivers, even if they
> existed.
>
> Much sharing of an IRQ isn't a problem provided that all devices are
> working. You should uninstall devices that you don't need for the present
> task or which aren't working properly. If you can't uninstall them for
> some reason, at least diable them.
> --
> Jeff Richards
> MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
> "Jim" <invalid@example.invalid> wrote in message
> news:u9NmA59yHHA.1212@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> > These are good points, and it is exactly where I am stuck.
> > The drivers and some app.exe have made the USB device program specific
for
> > that disk image program. I copied over to a EBD [Emergency Boot
Diskette]
> > the driver aspiUHCI.sys and let the program have access to the driver,
but
> > still not working. I also thought that MS win98se upgrade cd would have
> > this
> > type of driver, but it does not. This is circa 2002 USB 2.0 hi-speed
> > drivers
> > 15-480 MB/sec ...
> > "Don Phillipson" <d.phillipsonSPAMBLOCK@rogers.com> wrote in message
> > news:edXR2u7yHHA.3908@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> >> "Jim" <invalid@example.invalid> wrote in message
> >> news:%23$qolIxyHHA.5484@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> >>
> >> > I am not a gamer. I don't know. This is a bit like a dosgame though.
> >> >
> >> > The USB 2.0 needs a floppy that is dos and it is UHCI driver with
some
> >> other
> >> > component software for Active@ Disk-Image.net program.
> >>
> >> Beware . . .
> >> 1. What your USB devices need is drivers i.e. OS files.
> >> These files may be stored on a floppy and that floppy
> >> may conveniently formatted for DOS but no USB device.
> >> "needs a floppy that is dos."
> >> 2. Device drivers are hardware-specific. You may have
> >> difficulty making a particular program run from a particular
> >> device, but no USB drivers are specific for any particular program.
>
>