M
MEB
Discussion was originally entitled Computer failure - 02/19/2008, poster
BAP, in this discussion forum. The discussion spread to two other computers
and issues with those, their systems and other. I have split that discussion
into new separate discussions with headings for the individual
potentials/issues. Please keep these discussions separated.
Background, the Microtime computer had been running Windows 98SE until the
computer started to fail. Presently diagnostic routines are being run
through to attempt a recovery. The keyboard is erring out and has been
tested by using other keyboards which also fail, and the computer apparently
never gets to the POST screen.
Suggestion was placed to create a AUTOFLASH boot floppy to attempt to
re-flash the BIOS.
"BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:07352F95-BB00-4FB9-A0BC-8C28FE419DA7@microsoft.com...
| "MEB", a strange thing happened after I moved the Computer and Monitor to
| another location. I reconnected everything, powered them up and,
| surprisingly, it did re-start. However, like before, the Monitor light
from
| 'green' changed to 'red' and the tower would make a clicking sound and
no-go.
| And, like before, I had to coordinate the timing of powering up the two
| components in order to get the system to boot properly. However, on the
first
| successful boot, like before, the CD and Zip drives were not seen,
although
| they responded in accepting and releasing the disks. Currently, however,
it
| just boots up to a point where it warns that the Keyboard is not attached
and
| that's it. I tried another keyboard, but...no-go.
| If I want to pursue it, I will need to disconnect all the cables, dust up
| all that I can, re-cable all and see what happens.
| Thank you, "MEB", but I am not sure about it all.
|
Oh, okay, then if you decide to attempt this at some future date there may
be something else to try.
As you appear to get an initial finding of the peripherals except the
keyboard on POST you might try to refresh the BIOS with a BIOS flash for
that motherboard. This would be accomplished with a floppy disk created to
automatically boot and flash the motherboard. At this point it appears that
this may be a potential fix as there have been findings related to
successful use of this technique to reset corrupted BIOS due to electrical
issues, spikes, etc..
First, if at all possible, remove the CMOS battery for about 10 minutes to
completely remove any old settings, re-insert after checking whether it is
still good [generally 3+ volts] replace if needed [likely CR2032], and run
the floppy flash disk. Remember to re-set any Bios settings if this appears
to initially correct the issues.
| **** ***** Are you referring to a Startup Diskette created by the OS in
place?
| The wording 'floppy flash disk' is not familiar to me.
Yes, or one from bootdisks.com or some place.
An autoflash disk has only the basics [command.com, io.sys, etc.] and you
create an autoexec.bat to *auto run* the commandline for the flash program.
Make sure the autoexec and config sys contain nothing else, e.g., no
drivers, no directions, NOTHING except the command line necessary to flash
the BIOS.
As you're having difficulty with the keyboard, you will need to make sure
the boot block is also refreshed, and is included with the BIOS flash. Check
on the MB site for the flash tool, its command line needs, AND the proper
flash bin [or whatever it uses]. Most have a support forum so if necessary,
ask there if the particular flash contains the boot block and was not
indicated on the info for the download.
Again, make sure the autoexec then contains the command to
refresh/overwrite the boot block as the defaults may NOT include this
function, in addition to the standard updates that might be included within
the BIOS update.. MAKE SURE that the computer you make this autoflash disk
on is NOT configured to boot from the floppy to negate the potential of
flashing the wrong computer with the wrong BIOS.
After creating the autoflash disk, make sure the target computer IS
configured to boot from the floppy and has been reset to defaults [which it
will be if you removed the battery], then run the autoflash disk.
NOTE: Another suggested command line addition is to save the old BIOS prior
to the flash in case of continued issues as some sites will look at these
files and attempt to diagnose the issues. Also, make a written note of what
the present BIOS version and subversion is.
| >
| > "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > news:65B9F4E9-5C45-4457-A217-125260337642@microsoft.com...
| > | ***"
| > | MEB", regarding the KEYED lock, there is one, but I have no key for
it.
| > | Besides, how can it suddenly lock itself out? There is a center post
and
| > an
| > | outer ring with two small cut out slots...left and right. The arrow on
the
| > | center post points to the right one.
| >
| > The reason for asking is, on very rare occasions, if this KEYED lock
was
| > connected to the motherboard it may short out causing a physical
lockout.
| > That was the function of that keyed switch: to defeat startup.. Might
check
| > inside to see if the wires running from it are attached to the
motherboard.
| > Note however, that several manufacturers reversed the electrical aspects
of
| > the switching [dead/break circuit [power disconnect or chip short
{removable
| > wiring}] ON to complete circuit {must be connected}= intermittent
| > disconnect {corrosion or other}= computer errors]
|
| **** The wires from the KEYED lock are attached to the motherboard. I sort
| of made sure that the connectors were firmly in place. I did not attempt
at
| cleaning anything, yet. No change.
| ***
Okay, as I said, it was something I that I hadn't thought of in awhile
largely because these are found on OLDER computers.
You could attempt to temporarily disconnect it to see if that changes
anything.
BAP: ****
I tried that, but still no luck. I also shorted the contacts where the wires
would be placed, but sill
no-go.
***
BAP:
| **** I set all the drives to Auto on the CMOS setup pane and saved the
| changes.
| At boot time, the system detected and identified the Secondary Master (the
| Storage Disk from the failed Computer) and the CD-ROM Disk, as the
Secondary
| Master. However, after booting, only A: , C: and D
CD-ROM) showed up.
| ****
That should have made it accessible,, to make sure we don't run around in
circles now that we are addressing two or more computers, and several makes
and models of hard drives:
1. IF the *bad* hard disk was set as MASTER it is in conflict with either
the original drive if still in place or the CDROM if on the same cable, as
both are apparently configured as masters. When sharing a cable only one
drive can be a master, the other MUST be a slave [not getting into cable
select issues]. Check the jumpers on the drives and set properly.
BAP ****
The hard disk from the failed computer was set as a secondary Master and, as
such, it has been performing well. Unfortunately, that is the Computer that
has failed, namely, the Microtime.
***
2. What OS are you using on that computer and the make and model of the
computer OR its motherboard and/or BIOS [let's call it by its make from now
on]?
BAP ****
The OS was originally W98. A friend gave me an upgrade to W98SE. That, when
installed, did not appear to cause any problems, except that I could not get
it to accept USB cards. In time, the 10GB HD started acting up and I decided
to purchase an larger HD. That was a 40GB Maxtor. The software that came
with it caused many problems. I managed to follow instructions and set
jumpers and cable connection as specified. The original HD became the
Secondary Master. Most of my Data are there. There was no problems with all
for long time. It was rather peculiar, however, that, whenever I inserted a
Boot-disk to boot up from, the system would place me in Secondary Master.
The
Primary was nowhere to be found. There was a lengthy Post about this problem
that involved many of your expert helpers, a year or two back. Gary, PCR,
Harvat, but mainly Blanton, to name a few. Bill concluded that there was an
overlay. The outcome was that, in
order to boot up successfully, I had to hold the CTRL key during the booting
cycle and select Boot from Floppy. That would put me in the Primary Master.
***
MEB:
3. What is the size of the C drive that is found [is it the actual drive]?
****
BAP: If you are referring to the Microtime, that is the one I just commented
on.
The Risys was about 4GB. (I need to check on that).
-----
****
MEB:
4. Can you access the disk from DOS now? What version of DOS are you using
[type ver at the command prompt]?
****
BAP: I will need to do that, but not on the Microtime.
MEB:
If * Microtime - computer repair * start that with answers to these
questions:
1. Do you have an old Mono/CGA/EGA/VGA ISA [8 or 16bit] video card/adapter
laying around?
2. Do you have a different case or power supply?
3. Did you check the motherboard CMOS battery?
4. Are you completely shutting off this computer?
5. Did you change out the cables as suggested?
6. Did you, when it started that one time, go into the BIOS and set Ignore
All Errors.
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
_________
BAP, in this discussion forum. The discussion spread to two other computers
and issues with those, their systems and other. I have split that discussion
into new separate discussions with headings for the individual
potentials/issues. Please keep these discussions separated.
Background, the Microtime computer had been running Windows 98SE until the
computer started to fail. Presently diagnostic routines are being run
through to attempt a recovery. The keyboard is erring out and has been
tested by using other keyboards which also fail, and the computer apparently
never gets to the POST screen.
Suggestion was placed to create a AUTOFLASH boot floppy to attempt to
re-flash the BIOS.
"BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:07352F95-BB00-4FB9-A0BC-8C28FE419DA7@microsoft.com...
| "MEB", a strange thing happened after I moved the Computer and Monitor to
| another location. I reconnected everything, powered them up and,
| surprisingly, it did re-start. However, like before, the Monitor light
from
| 'green' changed to 'red' and the tower would make a clicking sound and
no-go.
| And, like before, I had to coordinate the timing of powering up the two
| components in order to get the system to boot properly. However, on the
first
| successful boot, like before, the CD and Zip drives were not seen,
although
| they responded in accepting and releasing the disks. Currently, however,
it
| just boots up to a point where it warns that the Keyboard is not attached
and
| that's it. I tried another keyboard, but...no-go.
| If I want to pursue it, I will need to disconnect all the cables, dust up
| all that I can, re-cable all and see what happens.
| Thank you, "MEB", but I am not sure about it all.
|
Oh, okay, then if you decide to attempt this at some future date there may
be something else to try.
As you appear to get an initial finding of the peripherals except the
keyboard on POST you might try to refresh the BIOS with a BIOS flash for
that motherboard. This would be accomplished with a floppy disk created to
automatically boot and flash the motherboard. At this point it appears that
this may be a potential fix as there have been findings related to
successful use of this technique to reset corrupted BIOS due to electrical
issues, spikes, etc..
First, if at all possible, remove the CMOS battery for about 10 minutes to
completely remove any old settings, re-insert after checking whether it is
still good [generally 3+ volts] replace if needed [likely CR2032], and run
the floppy flash disk. Remember to re-set any Bios settings if this appears
to initially correct the issues.
| **** ***** Are you referring to a Startup Diskette created by the OS in
place?
| The wording 'floppy flash disk' is not familiar to me.
Yes, or one from bootdisks.com or some place.
An autoflash disk has only the basics [command.com, io.sys, etc.] and you
create an autoexec.bat to *auto run* the commandline for the flash program.
Make sure the autoexec and config sys contain nothing else, e.g., no
drivers, no directions, NOTHING except the command line necessary to flash
the BIOS.
As you're having difficulty with the keyboard, you will need to make sure
the boot block is also refreshed, and is included with the BIOS flash. Check
on the MB site for the flash tool, its command line needs, AND the proper
flash bin [or whatever it uses]. Most have a support forum so if necessary,
ask there if the particular flash contains the boot block and was not
indicated on the info for the download.
Again, make sure the autoexec then contains the command to
refresh/overwrite the boot block as the defaults may NOT include this
function, in addition to the standard updates that might be included within
the BIOS update.. MAKE SURE that the computer you make this autoflash disk
on is NOT configured to boot from the floppy to negate the potential of
flashing the wrong computer with the wrong BIOS.
After creating the autoflash disk, make sure the target computer IS
configured to boot from the floppy and has been reset to defaults [which it
will be if you removed the battery], then run the autoflash disk.
NOTE: Another suggested command line addition is to save the old BIOS prior
to the flash in case of continued issues as some sites will look at these
files and attempt to diagnose the issues. Also, make a written note of what
the present BIOS version and subversion is.
| >
| > "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > news:65B9F4E9-5C45-4457-A217-125260337642@microsoft.com...
| > | ***"
| > | MEB", regarding the KEYED lock, there is one, but I have no key for
it.
| > | Besides, how can it suddenly lock itself out? There is a center post
and
| > an
| > | outer ring with two small cut out slots...left and right. The arrow on
the
| > | center post points to the right one.
| >
| > The reason for asking is, on very rare occasions, if this KEYED lock
was
| > connected to the motherboard it may short out causing a physical
lockout.
| > That was the function of that keyed switch: to defeat startup.. Might
check
| > inside to see if the wires running from it are attached to the
motherboard.
| > Note however, that several manufacturers reversed the electrical aspects
of
| > the switching [dead/break circuit [power disconnect or chip short
{removable
| > wiring}] ON to complete circuit {must be connected}= intermittent
| > disconnect {corrosion or other}= computer errors]
|
| **** The wires from the KEYED lock are attached to the motherboard. I sort
| of made sure that the connectors were firmly in place. I did not attempt
at
| cleaning anything, yet. No change.
| ***
Okay, as I said, it was something I that I hadn't thought of in awhile
largely because these are found on OLDER computers.
You could attempt to temporarily disconnect it to see if that changes
anything.
BAP: ****
I tried that, but still no luck. I also shorted the contacts where the wires
would be placed, but sill
no-go.
***
BAP:
| **** I set all the drives to Auto on the CMOS setup pane and saved the
| changes.
| At boot time, the system detected and identified the Secondary Master (the
| Storage Disk from the failed Computer) and the CD-ROM Disk, as the
Secondary
| Master. However, after booting, only A: , C: and D
CD-ROM) showed up.| ****
That should have made it accessible,, to make sure we don't run around in
circles now that we are addressing two or more computers, and several makes
and models of hard drives:
1. IF the *bad* hard disk was set as MASTER it is in conflict with either
the original drive if still in place or the CDROM if on the same cable, as
both are apparently configured as masters. When sharing a cable only one
drive can be a master, the other MUST be a slave [not getting into cable
select issues]. Check the jumpers on the drives and set properly.
BAP ****
The hard disk from the failed computer was set as a secondary Master and, as
such, it has been performing well. Unfortunately, that is the Computer that
has failed, namely, the Microtime.
***
2. What OS are you using on that computer and the make and model of the
computer OR its motherboard and/or BIOS [let's call it by its make from now
on]?
BAP ****
The OS was originally W98. A friend gave me an upgrade to W98SE. That, when
installed, did not appear to cause any problems, except that I could not get
it to accept USB cards. In time, the 10GB HD started acting up and I decided
to purchase an larger HD. That was a 40GB Maxtor. The software that came
with it caused many problems. I managed to follow instructions and set
jumpers and cable connection as specified. The original HD became the
Secondary Master. Most of my Data are there. There was no problems with all
for long time. It was rather peculiar, however, that, whenever I inserted a
Boot-disk to boot up from, the system would place me in Secondary Master.
The
Primary was nowhere to be found. There was a lengthy Post about this problem
that involved many of your expert helpers, a year or two back. Gary, PCR,
Harvat, but mainly Blanton, to name a few. Bill concluded that there was an
overlay. The outcome was that, in
order to boot up successfully, I had to hold the CTRL key during the booting
cycle and select Boot from Floppy. That would put me in the Primary Master.
***
MEB:
3. What is the size of the C drive that is found [is it the actual drive]?
****
BAP: If you are referring to the Microtime, that is the one I just commented
on.
The Risys was about 4GB. (I need to check on that).
-----
****
MEB:
4. Can you access the disk from DOS now? What version of DOS are you using
[type ver at the command prompt]?
****
BAP: I will need to do that, but not on the Microtime.
MEB:
If * Microtime - computer repair * start that with answers to these
questions:
1. Do you have an old Mono/CGA/EGA/VGA ISA [8 or 16bit] video card/adapter
laying around?
2. Do you have a different case or power supply?
3. Did you check the motherboard CMOS battery?
4. Are you completely shutting off this computer?
5. Did you change out the cables as suggested?
6. Did you, when it started that one time, go into the BIOS and set Ignore
All Errors.
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
_________