Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

[Bill in Co.]

(Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS newsgroups on
the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there" already).

I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new Dell without
USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't find any
USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some research on the
net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do exist, but:

1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell computer's BIOS,
but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.

2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also DUSE, but
none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does anybody know
of any others?

3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would it instead be
possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2 mouse instead,
or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support (in these DOS
boot disks, or other DOS apps)?

Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!

Bill

 

[MEB]

My first suggestion would be to look on usbman for drivers.

Second, does the BIOS offer PS2 emulation?
----------
There have been times, depending upon the manufacturer, that DOS drivers
were produced for older mouse models, but will provide support for newer
models [sometimes even other manufacturer's models].

There were cards produced to provide PS2 addin, many of those were ISA,
though some were PCI.

http://www.driverforum.com/inputdevice3/820.html
http://www.mdgx.com/drv.htm
http://www.computing.net/dos/wwwboard/forum/13447.html -towards the bottom
of the page discussing the Panasonic driver used with optical mouse though
WITH USB legacy support [showing file configs]. Perhaps a bit of playing
around with that driver might produce results..

There were also several commercial DOS USB drivers written, though never
free.

Some have used the 98 USB driver sys file to provide support [also in 2000,
XP] when loaded in config.sys for DOS box usage.
hidusb.sys [included in: DDK, several mouse driver installations,
upgrades/patches to 2000-XP]
http://www.usb-drivers.com/drivers/16/16047.htm
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/connect/usb/usbfaq_intro.mspx

And finally, did you check any of the free DOS replacement OSs?

--
MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
--
_________

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:e6z0jTFnIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
| (Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS newsgroups on
| the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there" already).
|
| I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new Dell without
| USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't find any
| USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some research on the
| net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do exist,
but:
|
| 1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell computer's
BIOS,
| but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.
|
| 2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also DUSE, but
| none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does anybody
know
| of any others?
|
| 3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would it instead
be
| possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2 mouse
instead,
| or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support (in these DOS
| boot disks, or other DOS apps)?
|
| Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!
|
| Bill
|
|

 

[philo]

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:e6z0jTFnIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> (Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS newsgroups on
> the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there" already).
>
> I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new Dell without
> USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't find any
> USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some research on the
> net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do exist,
but:
>
> 1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell computer's
BIOS,
> but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.
>
> 2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also DUSE, but
> none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does anybody
know
> of any others?
>
> 3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would it instead
be
> possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2 mouse
instead,
> or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support (in these DOS
> boot disks, or other DOS apps)?
>
> Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!
>
> Bill
>
>

http://www.bootdisk.com/usb.htm

 

[Bill in Co.]

philo wrote:
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:e6z0jTFnIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> (Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS newsgroups on
>> the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there" already).
>>
>> I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new Dell without
>> USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't find any
>> USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some research on
>> the
>> net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do exist,
>> but:
>>
>> 1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell computer's
>> BIOS,
>> but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.
>>
>> 2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also DUSE, but
>> none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does anybody
>> know
>> of any others?
>>
>> 3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would it instead
>> be
>> possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2 mouse
>> instead,
>> or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support (in these DOS
>> boot disks, or other DOS apps)?
>>
>> Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>
> http://www.bootdisk.com/usb.htm


Thanks philo, but I already checked this site out, and the only thing they
had for this was as quoted below, which didn't work for me: (evidently
there are several USB DOS drivers for Mass Storage devices, but not so many
for mice)

http://www.bootdisk.com/readme.htm

USB Mouse In DOS:
Your bios may already support USB mice and keyboards. Check there, look for
something that says USB Legacy support or similiar. This is a much better
option than using third party software.

*** which I unfortunately don't have

If you have a USB mouse here are two files, either one should find your USB
mouse in DOS. Docs are included with the zip-pack called: USBmice.
Essentially all you do is either load up ohci.exe or uhci.exe in
autoexec.bat

*** unfortunately, that didn't work for me (neither one did).

Please note that while the UBS Mouse files "should" get your USB mouse to
work OK in simple programs like DOS Edit and other basic DOS applications,
they will totally disappoint you for sophisticated DOS games. The files are
also quite large and use a lot of base ram.

So I'll take a look at MEB's and see if anything else might work (and reply
to him)

 

[philo]

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:esLyKhNnIHA.4712@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> philo wrote:
> > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:e6z0jTFnIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> >> (Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS newsgroups
on
> >> the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there" already).
> >>
> >> I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new Dell
without
> >> USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't find
any
> >> USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some research on
> >> the
> >> net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do exist,
> >> but:
> >>
> >> 1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell computer's
> >> BIOS,
> >> but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.
> >>
> >> 2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also DUSE,
but
> >> none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does anybody
> >> know
> >> of any others?
> >>
> >> 3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would it
instead
> >> be
> >> possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2 mouse
> >> instead,
> >> or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support (in these
DOS
> >> boot disks, or other DOS apps)?
> >>
> >> Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!
> >>
> >> Bill
> >>
> >>
> >
> > http://www.bootdisk.com/usb.htm
>
>
> Thanks philo, but I already checked this site out, and the only thing they
> had for this was as quoted below, which didn't work for me: (evidently
> there are several USB DOS drivers for Mass Storage devices, but not so
many
> for mice)

There are some drivers listed here
but I have not tried them:

http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/
>

 

[Bill in Co.]

Thanks MEB, there is a lot here to digest, and I am working on it! So
thanks for all this info so far! Some (a lot) of the DOS drivers I've
seen already are only for "Mass Storage" devices, however. (I did not
look at DOS replacement yet (and hope not to need to go there - I'm not that
much into DOS usage to warrant that.

Just on the off chance that I can't find a working DOS driver (for my USB
optical mouse), I was wondering about this, as a possible fallback option:

I have seen a Serial Port PCI I/O card, which says it is DOS compatible, so
if I get a Serial (or PS/2) mouse, shouldn't that work (as a last resort),
no matter what?

Actually, I'd probably get a PS/2 mouse, and a PS/2-to-Serial adapter to
plug into the Serial PCI card. (I haven't found any "PS/2" PCI I/O
cards yet, so that's why the serial card)

My guess is also that a serial *optical* mouse might be a bit of a stretch
for working out ok in DOS (since a standard mouse is a lot simpler,
technically), but I'm not sure.



MEB wrote:
> My first suggestion would be to look on usbman for drivers.
>
> Second, does the BIOS offer PS2 emulation?
> ----------
> There have been times, depending upon the manufacturer, that DOS drivers
> were produced for older mouse models, but will provide support for newer
> models [sometimes even other manufacturer's models].
>
> There were cards produced to provide PS2 addin, many of those were ISA,
> though some were PCI.
>
> http://www.driverforum.com/inputdevice3/820.html
> http://www.mdgx.com/drv.htm
> http://www.computing.net/dos/wwwboard/forum/13447.html -towards the bottom
> of the page discussing the Panasonic driver used with optical mouse though
> WITH USB legacy support [showing file configs]. Perhaps a bit of playing
> around with that driver might produce results..
>
> There were also several commercial DOS USB drivers written, though never
> free.
>
> Some have used the 98 USB driver sys file to provide support [also in
> 2000,
> XP] when loaded in config.sys for DOS box usage.
> hidusb.sys [included in: DDK, several mouse driver installations,
> upgrades/patches to 2000-XP]
> http://www.usb-drivers.com/drivers/16/16047.htm
> http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/connect/usb/usbfaq_intro.mspx
>
> And finally, did you check any of the free DOS replacement OSs?
>
> --
> MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
> --
> _________
>
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:e6z0jTFnIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> (Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS newsgroups on
>> the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there" already).
>>
>> I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new Dell without
>> USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't find any
>> USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some research on
>> the
>> net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do exist,
>> but:
>>
>> 1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell computer's
>> BIOS,
>> but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.
>>
>> 2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also DUSE, but
>> none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does anybody
>> know
>> of any others?
>>
>> 3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would it instead
>> be
>> possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2 mouse
>> instead,
>> or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support (in these DOS
>> boot disks, or other DOS apps)?
>>
>> Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!
>>
>> Bill

 

[Bill in Co.]

philo wrote:
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:esLyKhNnIHA.4712@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> philo wrote:
>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> news:e6z0jTFnIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> (Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS newsgroups
>>>> on
>>>> the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there" already).
>>>>
>>>> I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new Dell
>>>> without
>>>> USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't find
>>>> any
>>>> USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some research on
>>>> the
>>>> net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do exist,
>>>> but:
>>>>
>>>> 1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell computer's
>>>> BIOS,
>>>> but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.
>>>>
>>>> 2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also DUSE,
>>>> but
>>>> none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does anybody
>>>> know
>>>> of any others?
>>>>
>>>> 3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would it
>>>> instead
>>>> be
>>>> possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2 mouse
>>>> instead,
>>>> or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support (in these
>>>> DOS
>>>> boot disks, or other DOS apps)?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.bootdisk.com/usb.htm
>>
>>
>> Thanks philo, but I already checked this site out, and the only thing
>> they
>> had for this was as quoted below, which didn't work for me: (evidently
>> there are several USB DOS drivers for Mass Storage devices, but not so
>> many
>> for mice)
>
> There are some drivers listed here
> but I have not tried them:
>
> http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/

Thanks again, already had tried those (those were the two included in that
other zip I tried).

 

[Bill in Co.]

Just a followup. I can't believe I missed something here!

On a hunch, I tried loading "mouse.exe", and THAT worked in DOS - without
ANY of these other USB drivers.

I think I've been spinning my wheels on something that wasn't a problem to
begin with, in that I never explicitly loaded a mouse driver, per se, (I
just assumed the old Microsoft "mouse.exe" driver (dated 1999!) would NOT be
compatible with USB mice). Duh to me.

Wonder if that hadn't worked if using a serial port PCI I/O card with a
serial mouse or PS/2 would have worked.

Interesting.

Thanks, MEB.


Bill in Co. wrote:
> Thanks MEB, there is a lot here to digest, and I am working on it! So
> thanks for all this info so far! Some (a lot) of the DOS drivers I've
> seen already are only for "Mass Storage" devices, however. (I did not
> look at DOS replacement yet (and hope not to need to go there - I'm not
> that
> much into DOS usage to warrant that.
>
> Just on the off chance that I can't find a working DOS driver (for my USB
> optical mouse), I was wondering about this, as a possible fallback option:
>
> I have seen a Serial Port PCI I/O card, which says it is DOS compatible,
> so
> if I get a Serial (or PS/2) mouse, shouldn't that work (as a last resort),
> no matter what?
>
> Actually, I'd probably get a PS/2 mouse, and a PS/2-to-Serial adapter to
> plug into the Serial PCI card. (I haven't found any "PS/2" PCI I/O
> cards yet, so that's why the serial card)
>
> My guess is also that a serial *optical* mouse might be a bit of a stretch
> for working out ok in DOS (since a standard mouse is a lot simpler,
> technically), but I'm not sure.
>
>
>
> MEB wrote:
>> My first suggestion would be to look on usbman for drivers.
>>
>> Second, does the BIOS offer PS2 emulation?
>> ----------
>> There have been times, depending upon the manufacturer, that DOS drivers
>> were produced for older mouse models, but will provide support for newer
>> models [sometimes even other manufacturer's models].
>>
>> There were cards produced to provide PS2 addin, many of those were ISA,
>> though some were PCI.
>>
>> http://www.driverforum.com/inputdevice3/820.html
>> http://www.mdgx.com/drv.htm
>> http://www.computing.net/dos/wwwboard/forum/13447.html -towards the
>> bottom
>> of the page discussing the Panasonic driver used with optical mouse
>> though
>> WITH USB legacy support [showing file configs]. Perhaps a bit of playing
>> around with that driver might produce results..
>>
>> There were also several commercial DOS USB drivers written, though never
>> free.
>>
>> Some have used the 98 USB driver sys file to provide support [also in
>> 2000,
>> XP] when loaded in config.sys for DOS box usage.
>> hidusb.sys [included in: DDK, several mouse driver installations,
>> upgrades/patches to 2000-XP]
>> http://www.usb-drivers.com/drivers/16/16047.htm
>> http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/connect/usb/usbfaq_intro.mspx
>>
>> And finally, did you check any of the free DOS replacement OSs?
>>
>> --
>> MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
>> --
>> _________
>>
>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:e6z0jTFnIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> (Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS newsgroups
>>> on
>>> the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there" already).
>>>
>>> I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new Dell
>>> without
>>> USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't find
>>> any
>>> USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some research on
>>> the
>>> net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do exist,
>>> but:
>>>
>>> 1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell computer's
>>> BIOS,
>>> but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.
>>>
>>> 2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also DUSE,
>>> but
>>> none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does anybody
>>> know
>>> of any others?
>>>
>>> 3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would it
>>> instead
>>> be
>>> possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2 mouse
>>> instead,
>>> or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support (in these DOS
>>> boot disks, or other DOS apps)?
>>>
>>> Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!
>>>
>>> Bill

 

[philo]

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:uANlQxNnIHA.5820@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> philo wrote:
> > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:esLyKhNnIHA.4712@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> >> philo wrote:
> >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >>> news:e6z0jTFnIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> >>>> (Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS
newsgroups
> >>>> on
> >>>> the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there"
already).
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new Dell
> >>>> without
> >>>> USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't find
> >>>> any
> >>>> USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some research
on
> >>>> the
> >>>> net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do
exist,
> >>>> but:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell computer's
> >>>> BIOS,
> >>>> but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.
> >>>>
> >>>> 2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also DUSE,
> >>>> but
> >>>> none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does
anybody
> >>>> know
> >>>> of any others?
> >>>>
> >>>> 3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would it
> >>>> instead
> >>>> be
> >>>> possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2 mouse
> >>>> instead,
> >>>> or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support (in these
> >>>> DOS
> >>>> boot disks, or other DOS apps)?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!
> >>>>
> >>>> Bill
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> http://www.bootdisk.com/usb.htm
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks philo, but I already checked this site out, and the only thing
> >> they
> >> had for this was as quoted below, which didn't work for me:
(evidently
> >> there are several USB DOS drivers for Mass Storage devices, but not so
> >> many
> >> for mice)
> >
> > There are some drivers listed here
> > but I have not tried them:
> >
> > http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/
>
> Thanks again, already had tried those (those were the two included in that
> other zip I tried).
>
>


Well if you cannot get any USB drivers for DOS...
I did see a PCI card at Newegg that has ps/2 ports (and USB)
but who knows if it would work in dos???

Just out of curiosity I wonder why you purchased a new machine to run dos
applications?
I'm sure a $5 pentium-1 machine would run dos just fine.

 

[Bill in Co.]

philo wrote:
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:uANlQxNnIHA.5820@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> philo wrote:
>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> news:esLyKhNnIHA.4712@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>> philo wrote:
>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:e6z0jTFnIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> (Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS
>>>>>> newsgroups
>>>>>> on the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there"
>>>>>> already).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new Dell
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't find
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some research
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> the net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do
>>>>>> exist,
>>>>>> but:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell computer's
>>>>>> BIOS, but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also DUSE,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does anybody
>>>>>> know of any others?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would it
>>>>>> instead be
>>>>>> possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2 mouse
>>>>>> instead, or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support
>>>>>> (in
>>>>>> these DOS boot disks, or other DOS apps)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.bootdisk.com/usb.htm
>>>>
>>>> Thanks philo, but I already checked this site out, and the only thing
>>>> they
>>>> had for this was as quoted below, which didn't work for me: (evidently
>>>> there are several USB DOS drivers for Mass Storage devices, but not so
>>>> many for mice)
>>>
>>> There are some drivers listed here but I have not tried them:
>>>
>>> http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/
>>
>> Thanks again, already had tried those (those were the two included in
>> that
>> other zip I tried).
>
>
> Well if you cannot get any USB drivers for DOS...
> I did see a PCI card at Newegg that has ps/2 ports (and USB)
> but who knows if it would work in dos???

That is interesting. I didn't know PS/2 I/O PCI cards were also
available.

Sometimes it says (if the specs are complete enough!), because I did see a
Serial Port PCI I/O card stating that (DOS, along with Win9x, XP, etc, so
presumably some drivers are also included if needed).

> Just out of curiosity I wonder why you purchased a new machine to run dos
> applications?

I didn't! (except for a few occasions).

 

[MEB]

Well, I must say that somewhat surprises me as well, that is not what is
generally found [generally the first failure encountered].

It would be interesting to know the manufacturer and model for that USB
mouse, so others might find this on the net for their attempts.
Might be wise to put up the motherboard/computer manufacturer and model as
well. This would, perhaps, allow placement of the chipset information.

Seems you may have USB compatibility/PS2 emulation in-built and turned on
by default.

--
MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
--
_________


"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:urhoL7OnIHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
| Just a followup. I can't believe I missed something here!
|
| On a hunch, I tried loading "mouse.exe", and THAT worked in DOS - without
| ANY of these other USB drivers.
|
| I think I've been spinning my wheels on something that wasn't a problem to
| begin with, in that I never explicitly loaded a mouse driver, per se, (I
| just assumed the old Microsoft "mouse.exe" driver (dated 1999!) would NOT
be
| compatible with USB mice). Duh to me.
|
| Wonder if that hadn't worked if using a serial port PCI I/O card with a
| serial mouse or PS/2 would have worked.
|
| Interesting.
|
| Thanks, MEB.
|
|
| Bill in Co. wrote:
| > Thanks MEB, there is a lot here to digest, and I am working on it! So
| > thanks for all this info so far! Some (a lot) of the DOS drivers I've
| > seen already are only for "Mass Storage" devices, however. (I did
not
| > look at DOS replacement yet (and hope not to need to go there - I'm not
| > that
| > much into DOS usage to warrant that.
| >
| > Just on the off chance that I can't find a working DOS driver (for my
USB
| > optical mouse), I was wondering about this, as a possible fallback
option:
| >
| > I have seen a Serial Port PCI I/O card, which says it is DOS
compatible,
| > so
| > if I get a Serial (or PS/2) mouse, shouldn't that work (as a last
resort),
| > no matter what?
| >
| > Actually, I'd probably get a PS/2 mouse, and a PS/2-to-Serial adapter to
| > plug into the Serial PCI card. (I haven't found any "PS/2" PCI I/O
| > cards yet, so that's why the serial card)
| >
| > My guess is also that a serial *optical* mouse might be a bit of a
stretch
| > for working out ok in DOS (since a standard mouse is a lot simpler,
| > technically), but I'm not sure.
| >
| >
| >
| > MEB wrote:
| >> My first suggestion would be to look on usbman for drivers.
| >>
| >> Second, does the BIOS offer PS2 emulation?
| >> ----------
| >> There have been times, depending upon the manufacturer, that DOS
drivers
| >> were produced for older mouse models, but will provide support for
newer
| >> models [sometimes even other manufacturer's models].
| >>
| >> There were cards produced to provide PS2 addin, many of those were ISA,
| >> though some were PCI.
| >>
| >> http://www.driverforum.com/inputdevice3/820.html
| >> http://www.mdgx.com/drv.htm
| >> http://www.computing.net/dos/wwwboard/forum/13447.html -towards the
| >> bottom
| >> of the page discussing the Panasonic driver used with optical mouse
| >> though
| >> WITH USB legacy support [showing file configs]. Perhaps a bit of
playing
| >> around with that driver might produce results..
| >>
| >> There were also several commercial DOS USB drivers written, though
never
| >> free.
| >>
| >> Some have used the 98 USB driver sys file to provide support [also in
| >> 2000,
| >> XP] when loaded in config.sys for DOS box usage.
| >> hidusb.sys [included in: DDK, several mouse driver installations,
| >> upgrades/patches to 2000-XP]
| >> http://www.usb-drivers.com/drivers/16/16047.htm
| >> http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/connect/usb/usbfaq_intro.mspx
| >>
| >> And finally, did you check any of the free DOS replacement OSs?
| >>
| >> --
| >> MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
| >> --
| >> _________
| >>
| >> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
| >> news:e6z0jTFnIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
| >>> (Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS newsgroups
| >>> on
| >>> the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there" already).
| >>>
| >>> I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new Dell
| >>> without
| >>> USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't find
| >>> any
| >>> USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some research on
| >>> the
| >>> net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do exist,
| >>> but:
| >>>
| >>> 1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell computer's
| >>> BIOS,
| >>> but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.
| >>>
| >>> 2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also DUSE,
| >>> but
| >>> none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does
anybody
| >>> know
| >>> of any others?
| >>>
| >>> 3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would it
| >>> instead
| >>> be
| >>> possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2 mouse
| >>> instead,
| >>> or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support (in these
DOS
| >>> boot disks, or other DOS apps)?
| >>>
| >>> Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!
| >>>
| >>> Bill
|
|

 

[Bill in Co.]

I've got a Dell Inspiron 530 (with Windows XP), and it uses a basic Dell
optical mouse (connected - not wireless).

I occasionally boot up on DOS floppies, or, most recently, I can now boot up
on a DOS USB flash disk, which is even better (this, by entering the Dell
Boot Menu at bootup, and selecting this USB drive for boot).

(But since this is a Windows 98 group, I'm not sure if it will be of much
help to anyone, since those computers will be older).

So USB controllers are, of course, built into this Windows XP computer, but
in the BIOS, there is no "USB Legacy Option", or any "Legacy" option shown,
for that matter, as a BIOS option. I think the Chipset here was an Intel
G33, as I recall (but it's been awhile since I checked that).

I'm still surprised that old Microsoft "mouse.exe" driver (dated 1999)
worked, and therein saved me a major headache in time! Thanks again for
your help, MEB.

MEB wrote:
> Well, I must say that somewhat surprises me as well, that is not what is
> generally found [generally the first failure encountered].
>
> It would be interesting to know the manufacturer and model for that USB
> mouse, so others might find this on the net for their attempts.
> Might be wise to put up the motherboard/computer manufacturer and model as
> well. This would, perhaps, allow placement of the chipset information.
>
> Seems you may have USB compatibility/PS2 emulation in-built and turned on
> by default.
>
> --
> MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
> --
> _________
>
>
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:urhoL7OnIHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> Just a followup. I can't believe I missed something here!
>>
>> On a hunch, I tried loading "mouse.exe", and THAT worked in DOS - without
>> ANY of these other USB drivers.
>>
>> I think I've been spinning my wheels on something that wasn't a problem
>> to
>> begin with, in that I never explicitly loaded a mouse driver, per se, (I
>> just assumed the old Microsoft "mouse.exe" driver (dated 1999!) would NOT
>> be
>> compatible with USB mice). Duh to me.
>>
>> Wonder if that hadn't worked if using a serial port PCI I/O card with a
>> serial mouse or PS/2 would have worked.
>>
>> Interesting.
>>
>> Thanks, MEB.
>>
>>
>> Bill in Co. wrote:
>>> Thanks MEB, there is a lot here to digest, and I am working on it! So
>>> thanks for all this info so far! Some (a lot) of the DOS drivers I've
>>> seen already are only for "Mass Storage" devices, however. (I did
>>> not
>>> look at DOS replacement yet (and hope not to need to go there - I'm not
>>> that
>>> much into DOS usage to warrant that.
>>>
>>> Just on the off chance that I can't find a working DOS driver (for my
>>> USB
>>> optical mouse), I was wondering about this, as a possible fallback
>>> option:
>>>
>>> I have seen a Serial Port PCI I/O card, which says it is DOS
>>> compatible,
>>> so
>>> if I get a Serial (or PS/2) mouse, shouldn't that work (as a last
>>> resort),
>>> no matter what?
>>>
>>> Actually, I'd probably get a PS/2 mouse, and a PS/2-to-Serial adapter to
>>> plug into the Serial PCI card. (I haven't found any "PS/2" PCI I/O
>>> cards yet, so that's why the serial card)
>>>
>>> My guess is also that a serial *optical* mouse might be a bit of a
>>> stretch
>>> for working out ok in DOS (since a standard mouse is a lot simpler,
>>> technically), but I'm not sure.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> MEB wrote:
>>>> My first suggestion would be to look on usbman for drivers.
>>>>
>>>> Second, does the BIOS offer PS2 emulation?
>>>> ----------
>>>> There have been times, depending upon the manufacturer, that DOS
>>>> drivers
>>>> were produced for older mouse models, but will provide support for
>>>> newer
>>>> models [sometimes even other manufacturer's models].
>>>>
>>>> There were cards produced to provide PS2 addin, many of those were ISA,
>>>> though some were PCI.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.driverforum.com/inputdevice3/820.html
>>>> http://www.mdgx.com/drv.htm
>>>> http://www.computing.net/dos/wwwboard/forum/13447.html -towards the
>>>> bottom
>>>> of the page discussing the Panasonic driver used with optical mouse
>>>> though
>>>> WITH USB legacy support [showing file configs]. Perhaps a bit of
>>>> playing
>>>> around with that driver might produce results..
>>>>
>>>> There were also several commercial DOS USB drivers written, though
>>>> never
>>>> free.
>>>>
>>>> Some have used the 98 USB driver sys file to provide support [also in
>>>> 2000,
>>>> XP] when loaded in config.sys for DOS box usage.
>>>> hidusb.sys [included in: DDK, several mouse driver installations,
>>>> upgrades/patches to 2000-XP]
>>>> http://www.usb-drivers.com/drivers/16/16047.htm
>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/connect/usb/usbfaq_intro.mspx
>>>>
>>>> And finally, did you check any of the free DOS replacement OSs?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
>>>> --
>>>> _________
>>>>
>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:e6z0jTFnIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>> (Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS newsgroups
>>>>> on
>>>>> the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there" already).
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new Dell
>>>>> without
>>>>> USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't find
>>>>> any
>>>>> USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some research on
>>>>> the
>>>>> net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do exist,
>>>>> but:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell computer's
>>>>> BIOS,
>>>>> but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also DUSE,
>>>>> but
>>>>> none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does
>>>>> anybody
>>>>> know
>>>>> of any others?
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would it
>>>>> instead
>>>>> be
>>>>> possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2 mouse
>>>>> instead,
>>>>> or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support (in these
>>>>> DOS
>>>>> boot disks, or other DOS apps)?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill

 

[MEB]

And thank you for posting that... I'm sure it will be appreciated by others.

--
MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
--
_________

 

[philo]

<snip>

>>>>
>>>> There are some drivers listed here but I have not tried them:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/
>>>
>>> Thanks again, already had tried those (those were the two included in
>>> that
>>> other zip I tried).
>>
>>
>> Well if you cannot get any USB drivers for DOS...
>> I did see a PCI card at Newegg that has ps/2 ports (and USB)
>> but who knows if it would work in dos???
>
> That is interesting. I didn't know PS/2 I/O PCI cards were also
> available.
>
> Sometimes it says (if the specs are complete enough!), because I did see a
> Serial Port PCI I/O card stating that (DOS, along with Win9x, XP, etc, so
> presumably some drivers are also included if needed).
>
>> Just out of curiosity I wonder why you purchased a new machine to run dos
>> applications?
>
> I didn't! (except for a few occasions).
>

Well I just though of something that was maybe a bit too obvious...
but a standard serial mouse is sure to work in DOS if all else fails.

Although serial port cards are not rare, if your machine does not have a
serial port...
have a look inside...as many newer motherboards do have serial port
headers...even if there is no port brought
out to the back of the case

 

[Bill in Co.]

philo wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>>>>
>>>>> There are some drivers listed here but I have not tried them:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again, already had tried those (those were the two included in
>>>> that other zip I tried).
>>>
>>>
>>> Well if you cannot get any USB drivers for DOS...
>>> I did see a PCI card at Newegg that has ps/2 ports (and USB)
>>> but who knows if it would work in dos???
>>
>> That is interesting. I didn't know PS/2 I/O PCI cards were also
>> available.
>>
>> Sometimes it says (if the specs are complete enough!), because I did see
>> a
>> Serial Port PCI I/O card stating that (DOS, along with Win9x, XP, etc,
>> so
>> presumably some drivers are also included if needed).
>>
>>> Just out of curiosity I wonder why you purchased a new machine to run
>>> dos
>>> applications?
>>
>> I didn't! (except for a few occasions).
>>
>
> Well I just though of something that was maybe a bit too obvious...
> but a standard serial mouse is sure to work in DOS if all else fails.

Fortunately that MS mouse.exe file worked.

> Although serial port cards are not rare, if your machine does not have a
> serial port...
> have a look inside...as many newer motherboards do have serial port
> headers...even if there is no port brought out to the back of the case

Just out of curiosity: I had read something to that effect before, but
I'm not sure how one would use it, if one wanted to. What does that really
mean - that there is a serial connector on the motherboard, or that some
special adapter would have to be connected to that "port header" (whatever
that is)?

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 14:16:35 -0600, "Bill in Co."
<not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>Actually, I'd probably get a PS/2 mouse, and a PS/2-to-Serial adapter to
>plug into the Serial PCI card. (I haven't found any "PS/2" PCI I/O
>cards yet, so that's why the serial card)

That will only work if the mouse is bilingual. This is because the
PS/2 and RS232 serial interfaces are electrically dissimilar, and the
two mouse protocols are different.

>My guess is also that a serial *optical* mouse might be a bit of a stretch
>for working out ok in DOS (since a standard mouse is a lot simpler,
>technically), but I'm not sure.

I'm still using a Mouse Systems serial optical mouse from the 1980s.
It works just fine in DOS with standard mouse drivers and behaves just
like any other serial mouse. However, I don't think this style of
mouse has been manufactured for at least 10 years. If you can still
buy one, please let me know.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Bill in Co.]

Franc Zabkar wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 14:16:35 -0600, "Bill in Co."
> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
>> Actually, I'd probably get a PS/2 mouse, and a PS/2-to-Serial adapter to
>> plug into the Serial PCI card. (I haven't found any "PS/2" PCI I/O
>> cards yet, so that's why the serial card)
>
> That will only work if the mouse is bilingual. This is because the
> PS/2 and RS232 serial interfaces are electrically dissimilar, and the
> two mouse protocols are different.

I have seen some PS/2 to serial (RS232, 9 pin) adapters on the net, but they
look like simple connectors (just rewired for the different geometries, of
course)

I had thought I had read the only (?) difference was the open collector
outputs in one of those (I can't recall whether it was PS/2, or RS232 (9
pin), but that everything else was about the same (and that PS/2 superceded
RS232, but was essentially the same, at least for a mouse). Not so?
But what does "bilingual" have to do with it?


>> My guess is also that a serial *optical* mouse might be a bit of a
>> stretch
>> for working out ok in DOS (since a standard mouse is a lot simpler,
>> technically), but I'm not sure.
>
> I'm still using a Mouse Systems serial optical mouse from the 1980s.

I didn't realize they had optical mice that long ago!

> It works just fine in DOS with standard mouse drivers and behaves just
> like any other serial mouse. However, I don't think this style of
> mouse has been manufactured for at least 10 years. If you can still
> buy one, please let me know.
>
> - Franc Zabkar
> --
> Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 14:31:39 -0600, "Bill in Co."
<not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>Franc Zabkar wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 14:16:35 -0600, "Bill in Co."
>> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>>
>>> Actually, I'd probably get a PS/2 mouse, and a PS/2-to-Serial adapter to
>>> plug into the Serial PCI card. (I haven't found any "PS/2" PCI I/O
>>> cards yet, so that's why the serial card)
>>
>> That will only work if the mouse is bilingual. This is because the
>> PS/2 and RS232 serial interfaces are electrically dissimilar, and the
>> two mouse protocols are different.
>
>I have seen some PS/2 to serial (RS232, 9 pin) adapters on the net, but they
>look like simple connectors (just rewired for the different geometries, of
>course)
>
>I had thought I had read the only (?) difference was the open collector
>outputs in one of those (I can't recall whether it was PS/2, or RS232 (9
>pin), but that everything else was about the same (and that PS/2 superceded
>RS232, but was essentially the same, at least for a mouse). Not so?
>But what does "bilingual" have to do with it?

PS/2 mice use +5V power whereas a serial mouse is signal powered.
RS232 uses +/-12V unidirectional signals whereas PS/2 uses 0-5V open
collector bidirectional TTL. PS/2 interfaces have separate data and
clock pins, whereas RS232 incorporates an asynchronous clock in the
data stream. The software protocols (ie communication languages) are
completely different which means that a combo mouse would have to
understand both, ie it would need to be bilingual. Furthermore its
electronics would need to be able to autodetect the two interface
types and automatically configure the mouse for one or the other.

See http://www.epanorama.net/documents/pc/mouse_adapters.html
http://www.epanorama.net/documents/pc/mouse.html

>>> My guess is also that a serial *optical* mouse might be a bit of a
>>> stretch
>>> for working out ok in DOS (since a standard mouse is a lot simpler,
>>> technically), but I'm not sure.
>>
>> I'm still using a Mouse Systems serial optical mouse from the 1980s.
>
>I didn't realize they had optical mice that long ago!

Sun Microsystems used them. They required a metal mouse pad.

>> It works just fine in DOS with standard mouse drivers and behaves just
>> like any other serial mouse. However, I don't think this style of
>> mouse has been manufactured for at least 10 years. If you can still
>> buy one, please let me know.
>>
>> - Franc Zabkar

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 07:34:54 +1000, Franc Zabkar
<fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 14:31:39 -0600, "Bill in Co."
><not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>>I didn't realize they had optical mice that long ago!
>
>Sun Microsystems used them. They required a metal mouse pad.

FYI the mouse is covered by US patents 4546347 (October 8, 1985) and
4364035 (December 14, 1982).

http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Bill in Co.]

Franc Zabkar wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 14:31:39 -0600, "Bill in Co."
> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
>> Franc Zabkar wrote:
>>> On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 14:16:35 -0600, "Bill in Co."
>>> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>>>
>>>> Actually, I'd probably get a PS/2 mouse, and a PS/2-to-Serial adapter
>>>> to
>>>> plug into the Serial PCI card. (I haven't found any "PS/2" PCI I/O
>>>> cards yet, so that's why the serial card)
>>>
>>> That will only work if the mouse is bilingual. This is because the
>>> PS/2 and RS232 serial interfaces are electrically dissimilar, and the
>>> two mouse protocols are different.
>>
>> I have seen some PS/2 to serial (RS232, 9 pin) adapters on the net, but
>> they
>> look like simple connectors (just rewired for the different geometries,
>> of
>> course)
>>
>> I had thought I had read the only (?) difference was the open collector
>> outputs in one of those (I can't recall whether it was PS/2, or RS232 (9
>> pin), but that everything else was about the same (and that PS/2
>> superceded
>> RS232, but was essentially the same, at least for a mouse). Not so?
>> But what does "bilingual" have to do with it?
>
> PS/2 mice use +5V power whereas a serial mouse is signal powered.
> RS232 uses +/-12V unidirectional signals whereas PS/2 uses 0-5V open
> collector bidirectional TTL. PS/2 interfaces have separate data and
> clock pins, whereas RS232 incorporates an asynchronous clock in the
> data stream.

OK, thanks for that info, Frank. All of that represents a *significant*
difference.

So it appears that any PS/2 - Serial Adapters will *have* to have some
electronics inside, afterall, and are NOT just simply rewired, afterall.

> The software protocols (ie communication languages) are
> completely different which means that a combo mouse would have to
> understand both, ie it would need to be bilingual.

Oh, ok, now I get it. Thanks. (didn't get the bilingual reference)
More below.

> Furthermore its
> electronics would need to be able to autodetect the two interface
> types and automatically configure the mouse for one or the other.
>
> See http://www.epanorama.net/documents/pc/mouse_adapters.html
> http://www.epanorama.net/documents/pc/mouse.html
>
>>>> My guess is also that a serial *optical* mouse might be a bit of a
>>>> stretch
>>>> for working out ok in DOS (since a standard mouse is a lot simpler,
>>>> technically), but I'm not sure.
>>>
>>> I'm still using a Mouse Systems serial optical mouse from the 1980s.
>>
>> I didn't realize they had optical mice that long ago!
>
> Sun Microsystems used them. They required a metal mouse pad.
>
>>> It works just fine in DOS with standard mouse drivers and behaves just
>>> like any other serial mouse. However, I don't think this style of
>>> mouse has been manufactured for at least 10 years. If you can still
>>> buy one, please let me know.

You're looking for a serial mouse? (but not bilingual)? I thought I had
seen some serial mice available when I looked on amazon.com. But they
might have just been the old, non-optical kind - although I thought I had
seen a somewhat pricey one, too (that was optical) which had a serial
interface, but I can't recall now.