Re: [News] Turf of Microsoft Forbids GNU/Linux Options

[Moshe Goldfarb.]

On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 18:56:29 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> U.S. Loses out in Lenovo's Linux Netbook Push

If it's anything like this Lenovo Linux loaded laptop, we don't need it!

http://www.channelinsider.com/c/a/Reviews/Lenovo-Launches-Linux-Laptop-and-Leaves-Lots-of-Questions/

"After the initial boot and logon, we were faced with a clean,
well-organized desktop, but one element caught our eye right away¡Xa text
document called ThinkPad Readme.txt. We launched it and found that the
document¡¦s first line was ¡§Limitations, Workarounds and How To¡¦s for
SLED10.¡¨ We did not like the sound of that ¡§limitations¡¨ element. After
all, isn¡¦t Linux supposed to be about overcoming limitations?

The first part of the document covered ¡§features not supported.¡¨ Some of
those features are:

* ThinkVantage Active Protection System.
* ThinkVantage Access Connections for SUSE Linux
* ThinkPad Configuration for SUSE Linux
* ThinkPad Power Manager for SUSE Linux
* Wireless WAN Adapter
* ThinkVantage Button
* (Intel Graphics System) DVI Output

From our point of view, Lenovo was not off to a good start"

Hopefully their latest version isn't another piker....



--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

 

[Tim Smith]

In article <1v2vo3wemdkuh.1d6jbba2be9px.dlg@40tude.net>,
"Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote:
[stuff]

OK, I'm curious. Is there any particular reason that post was in the
"big5" character set? I didn't notice any Chinese characters in your
post, so that seems like a kind of odd choice of character set. Is it
some kind of tribute to the Olympics or something?

--
--Tim Smith

 

[Moshe Goldfarb.]

On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 22:16:35 -0700, Tim Smith wrote:

> In article <1v2vo3wemdkuh.1d6jbba2be9px.dlg@40tude.net>,
> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote:
> [stuff]
>
> OK, I'm curious. Is there any particular reason that post was in the
> "big5" character set? I didn't notice any Chinese characters in your
> post, so that seems like a kind of odd choice of character set. Is it
> some kind of tribute to the Olympics or something?

Not sure.
I have not changed anything...

Does this reply look ok?

--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

 

[Tim Smith]

In article <2zmzqtrae4ia.t5mjm0qbmx1z.dlg@40tude.net>,
"Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote:
> > OK, I'm curious. Is there any particular reason that post was in the
> > "big5" character set? I didn't notice any Chinese characters in your
> > post, so that seems like a kind of odd choice of character set. Is it
> > some kind of tribute to the Olympics or something?
>
> Not sure.
> I have not changed anything...
>
> Does this reply look ok?

Yeah, that one's fine. Here's what happened, I believe. You copied and
pasted from a web page. That gave you some UTF-8 text.

The page is using left double quotes and right double quotes. Good old
7-bit ASCII only has a single kind of double quote, used for both
opening and closing a quotation. The UTF-8 opening quote comes out as
this byte sequence (in hex): e2 80 9c.

Your news reader saw that, and guessed that it was some Chinese
character in big5, so used big5 for your post.

This is fairly common when people copy and paste web text. Besides
double quotes, it can also be caused by left and right single quotes,
and probably a few other HTML entities.

--
--Tim Smith

 

[Gary S. Terhune]

For which the solution is to change the formatting of the post to
RTF/HTML/whatever, and then back to PT. Or can't you do that in those non-OE
readers you guys are using?

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com

"Tim Smith" <reply_in_group@mouse-potato.com> wrote in message
news:reply_in_group-77F888.23060206082008@news.supernews.com...
> In article <2zmzqtrae4ia.t5mjm0qbmx1z.dlg@40tude.net>,
> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > OK, I'm curious. Is there any particular reason that post was in the
>> > "big5" character set? I didn't notice any Chinese characters in your
>> > post, so that seems like a kind of odd choice of character set. Is it
>> > some kind of tribute to the Olympics or something?
>>
>> Not sure.
>> I have not changed anything...
>>
>> Does this reply look ok?
>
> Yeah, that one's fine. Here's what happened, I believe. You copied and
> pasted from a web page. That gave you some UTF-8 text.
>
> The page is using left double quotes and right double quotes. Good old
> 7-bit ASCII only has a single kind of double quote, used for both
> opening and closing a quotation. The UTF-8 opening quote comes out as
> this byte sequence (in hex): e2 80 9c.
>
> Your news reader saw that, and guessed that it was some Chinese
> character in big5, so used big5 for your post.
>
> This is fairly common when people copy and paste web text. Besides
> double quotes, it can also be caused by left and right single quotes,
> and probably a few other HTML entities.
>
> --
> --Tim Smith

 

[thufir]

On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:17:09 -0700, Gary S. Terhune wrote:

> For which the solution is to change the formatting of the post to
> RTF/HTML/whatever, and then back to PT. Or can't you do that in those
> non-OE readers you guys are using?


I'm using Pan and never noticed anything amiss with Moshe's post.


-Thufir

 

[Gary S. Terhune]

I didn't, either. Lucky us? I dunno, I just know that I've always done the
PT>RTF>PT toggle when copying from websites (if necessary.)

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com

"thufir" <hawat.thufir@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:nGzmk.165357$gc5.164680@pd7urf2no...
> On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:17:09 -0700, Gary S. Terhune wrote:
>
>> For which the solution is to change the formatting of the post to
>> RTF/HTML/whatever, and then back to PT. Or can't you do that in those
>> non-OE readers you guys are using?
>
>
> I'm using Pan and never noticed anything amiss with Moshe's post.
>
>
> -Thufir

 

[Gary S. Terhune]

GFY, LinoTroll.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com

"Linonut" <linonut@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message
news:TABmk.5963$Ep1.2164@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>* Gary S. Terhune peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> For which the solution is to change the formatting of the post to
>> RTF/HTML/whatever, and then back to PT. Or can't you do that in those
>> non-OE
>> readers you guys are using?
>
> Why bother, MVP boi?
>
>> --
>> Gary S. Terhune
>> MS-MVP Shell/User
>> http://grystmill.com
>>
>> "Tim Smith" <reply_in_group@mouse-potato.com> wrote in message
>> >
>> > Your news reader saw that, and guessed that it was some Chinese
>> > character in big5, so used big5 for your post.
>
> What business does a newsreader have in such "guessing"?
>
>> > This is fairly common when people copy and paste web text. Besides
>> > double quotes, it can also be caused by left and right single quotes,
>> > and probably a few other HTML entities.
>
> `'
> --
> ...
>
> Grrrrrr.
>
> --
> Nature to all things fixed the limits fit,
> And wisely curbed proud man's pretending wit.
> As on the land while here the ocean gains,
> In other parts it leaves wide sandy plains
> Thus in the soul while memory prevails,
> The solid power of understanding fails
> Where beams of warm imagination play,
> The memory's soft figures melt away.
> -- Alexander Pope (on runtime bounds checking?)

 

[Linonut]

* Gary S. Terhune peremptorily fired off this memo:

> GFY, LinoTroll.

Is that an addition certification that you have?

--
To give of yourself, you must first know yourself.

 

[Gary S. Terhune]

Well, if you're too stupid to figure it out for yourself, then you'll just
have to suffer through the rest of your life wondering, won't you?

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com

"Linonut" <linonut@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message
news:fyDmk.6028$Ep1.3988@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>* Gary S. Terhune peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> GFY, LinoTroll.
>
> Is that an addition certification that you have?
>
> --
> To give of yourself, you must first know yourself.

 

[Moshe Goldfarb.]

On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:06:02 -0700, Tim Smith wrote:

> In article <2zmzqtrae4ia.t5mjm0qbmx1z.dlg@40tude.net>,
> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> OK, I'm curious. Is there any particular reason that post was in the
>>> "big5" character set? I didn't notice any Chinese characters in your
>>> post, so that seems like a kind of odd choice of character set. Is it
>>> some kind of tribute to the Olympics or something?
>>
>> Not sure.
>> I have not changed anything...
>>
>> Does this reply look ok?
>
> Yeah, that one's fine. Here's what happened, I believe. You copied and
> pasted from a web page. That gave you some UTF-8 text.
>
> The page is using left double quotes and right double quotes. Good old
> 7-bit ASCII only has a single kind of double quote, used for both
> opening and closing a quotation. The UTF-8 opening quote comes out as
> this byte sequence (in hex): e2 80 9c.
>
> Your news reader saw that, and guessed that it was some Chinese
> character in big5, so used big5 for your post.
>
> This is fairly common when people copy and paste web text. Besides
> double quotes, it can also be caused by left and right single quotes,
> and probably a few other HTML entities.

Sounds reasonable!!
First time I ever did that!

--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

 

[Tim Smith]

In article <nGzmk.165357$gc5.164680@pd7urf2no>,
thufir <hawat.thufir@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:17:09 -0700, Gary S. Terhune wrote:
>
> > For which the solution is to change the formatting of the post to
> > RTF/HTML/whatever, and then back to PT. Or can't you do that in those
> > non-OE readers you guys are using?
>
>
> I'm using Pan and never noticed anything amiss with Moshe's post.

That means Pan is recognizing that it is in Big5. Here's a hex dump of part
of Moshe's post as it comes from the server. Note the parts I've underlined:

0000000: 77 65 6c 6c 2d 6f 72 67 61 6e 69 7a 65 64 20 64 well-organized d
0000010: 65 73 6b 74 6f 70 2c 20 62 75 74 20 6f 6e 65 20 esktop, but one
0000020: 65 6c 65 6d 65 6e 74 20 63 61 75 67 68 74 20 6f element caught o
0000030: 75 72 20 65 79 65 20 72 69 67 68 74 20 61 77 61 ur eye right awa
0000040: 79 a1 58 61 20 74 65 78 74 0a 64 6f 63 75 6d 65 y.Xa text.docume
----- --
0000050: 6e 74 20 63 61 6c 6c 65 64 20 54 68 69 6e 6b 50 nt called ThinkP
0000060: 61 64 20 52 65 61 64 6d 65 2e 74 78 74 2e 20 57 ad Readme.txt. W
0000070: 65 20 6c 61 75 6e 63 68 65 64 20 69 74 20 61 6e e launched it an
0000080: 64 20 66 6f 75 6e 64 20 74 68 61 74 20 74 68 65 d found that the
0000090: 0a 64 6f 63 75 6d 65 6e 74 a1 a6 73 20 66 69 72 .document..s fir
----- --
00000a0: 73 74 20 6c 69 6e 65 20 77 61 73 20 a1 a7 4c 69 st line was ..Li
----- --
00000b0: 6d 69 74 61 74 69 6f 6e 73 2c 20 57 6f 72 6b 61 mitations, Worka
00000c0: 72 6f 75 6e 64 73 20 61 6e 64 20 48 6f 77 20 54 rounds and How T
00000d0: 6f a1 a6 73 20 66 6f 72 0a 53 4c 45 44 31 30 2e o..s for.SLED10.
----- --
00000e0: a1 a8 20 57 65 20 64 69 64 20 6e 6f 74 20 6c 69 .. We did not li
----- --
00000f0: 6b 65 20 74 68 65 20 73 6f 75 6e 64 20 6f 66 20 ke the sound of
0000100: 74 68 61 74 20 a1 a7 6c 69 6d 69 74 61 74 69 6f that ..limitatio
----- --
0000110: 6e 73 a1 a8 20 65 6c 65 6d 65 6e 74 2e 20 41 66 ns.. element. Af
----- --
0000120: 74 65 72 0a 61 6c 6c 2c 20 69 73 6e a1 a6 74 20 ter.all, isn..t
----- --
0000130: 4c 69 6e 75 78 20 73 75 70 70 6f 73 65 64 20 74 Linux supposed t
0000140: 6f 20 62 65 20 61 62 6f 75 74 20 6f 76 65 72 63 o be about overc
0000150: 6f 6d 69 6e 67 20 6c 69 6d 69 74 61 74 69 6f 6e oming limitation
0000160: 73 3f 0a 0a 54 68 65 20 66 69 72 73 74 20 70 61 s?..The first pa
0000170: 72 74 20 6f 66 20 74 68 65 20 64 6f 63 75 6d 65 rt of the docume
0000180: 6e 74 20 63 6f 76 65 72 65 64 20 a1 a7 66 65 61 nt covered ..fea
----- --
0000190: 74 75 72 65 73 20 6e 6f 74 20 73 75 70 70 6f 72 tures not suppor
00001a0: 74 65 64 2e a1 a8 20 53 6f 6d 65 20 6f 66 0a ted... Some of.
----- --

In Big5, a158 is a long dash,
a1a6 is a closing single quote or apostrophe,
a1a7 is an opening double quote,
a1a8 is a closing double quote.

I noticed in my newsreader because font settings are per character set in
it. I have normal posts showing up in 14 point Courier. Traditional
Chinese character sets show up in a font whose name I don't understand,
because it has Chinese characters in the name -)). It happens to be 11
point by default. Thus, Moshe's post, while displaying with all the right
characters, was smaller than other posts in the group, and the character
design was different, so it stood out.


--
--Tim Smith

 

[Moshe Goldfarb.]

On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 08:31:28 -0700, Tim Smith wrote:

>
> I noticed in my newsreader because font settings are per character set in
> it. I have normal posts showing up in 14 point Courier. Traditional
> Chinese character sets show up in a font whose name I don't understand,
> because it has Chinese characters in the name -)). It happens to be 11
> point by default. Thus, Moshe's post, while displaying with all the right
> characters, was smaller than other posts in the group, and the character
> design was different, so it stood out.

I've noticed that once in a while Schestowitz's posts display in a
different font and bold.
Same for Mark Kent.

Maybe one or two times a week.

--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

 

[Damian]

Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 08:31:28 -0700, Tim Smith wrote:
>
>>
>> I noticed in my newsreader because font settings are per character
>> set in it. I have normal posts showing up in 14 point Courier.
>> Traditional Chinese character sets show up in a font whose name I
>> don't understand, because it has Chinese characters in the name
>> -)). It happens to be 11 point by default. Thus, Moshe's post,
>> while displaying with all the right characters, was smaller than
>> other posts in the group, and the character design was different, so
>> it stood out.
>
> I've noticed that once in a while Schestowitz's posts display in a
> different font and bold.
> Same for Mark Kent.
>
> Maybe one or two times a week.

Their posts are often UTF-8. Uncheck the option to reply in the same format
as the original and your reply will be in what you have selected for Plain
Text (Western European ISO, Western European Windows, etc.).

 

[Tim Smith]

In article <5HBmk.5966$Ep1.5169@bignews2.bellsouth.net>,
Linonut <linonut@bollsouth.nut> wrote:
> > OK, I'm curious. Is there any particular reason that post was in the
> > "big5" character set? I didn't notice any Chinese characters in your
> > post, so that seems like a kind of odd choice of character set. Is it
> > some kind of tribute to the Olympics or something?
>
> Actually, what I'm wondering now is what newsreader you are using that
> tries to guess the character set.
>
> Anyway, the orginal page has this:
>
> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html
> charset=iso-8859-1" />

I didn't mean that the website he linked to was using Big5. I meant
*his* post. The header of Moshe's post includes this:

Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain charset="big5"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


--
--Tim Smith