Guest sasha gottfried Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 I've recently learned, via this newsgroup, that SP3 will cause incessant boot problems when installed in an HP computer with an AMD processor. I see that there is a patch for this via the HP website. Of course, one wonders how to install a patch on a computer that just keeps rebooting? Why didn't Microsoft figure this problem out before releasing the update? There must be thousands of HP computers with AMD processors! Why didn't HP send out a special alert to customers with AMD processors? These are the kinds of issues that infuriate customers, and lead to all kinds of lawsuits. Thankfully, I read through this newsgroup and avoided messing with this SP3 debacle for now. I am grateful to the contributors to this discussion who have saved me the headache of indulging in another irresponsible, reckless, corporate abuse of its customers. Please correct any misapprehensions I have expressed here about this. But it would appear that, once again, the home computer industry is inducing unneeded stress, and sacrificing the time of its end-users, for the public relations illusion of 'upgrading' our experience and enhancing our 'security.' MT
Guest PA Bear [MS MVP] Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 Continual reboots or can only boot into Safe Mode after installing WinXP SP3? See http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/archive/2008/05/08/does-your-amd-based-computer-boot-after-installing-xp-sp3.aspx [NB: The above has been updated many times and now includes "a small tool that will detect the IntelPPM problem and mitigate it before installing (WinXP SP3)."] Some other possible workarounds: • Boot into Safe Mode and rename INTELPMM.SYS to INTELPMM.OLD. • After booting into Safe Mode: Start | Run | (copy/paste) sc config intelppm start= disabled | OK | Reboot into normal (Windows) mode. Other references: • http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?p=187790#p187790 • http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/09/windows_xp_sp3_reboots_crashes/ • http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9084418 • You receive a “Stop 0x0000007E” error message after you upgrade to Windows XP Service Pack 2 or Service Pack 3 on a non-Intel-processor-based computer (Revised 06 May-08) http://support.microsoft.com/kb/888372 • Unsupported Sysprep scenarios: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/828287 • HP and Compaq Desktop PCs: Computer Restarts after Displaying Stop Error 0x0000007E [after installing WinXP SP3] http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?docname=c01457284&dlc=en&lc=en&cc=us • Microsoft Windows XP SP3 Upgrade Utility for systems with AMD processors http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericSoftwareDownloadIndex?cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&softwareitem=pv-60484-1&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002 AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net DTS-L http://dts-l.net/ sasha gottfried wrote: > I've recently learned, via this newsgroup, that SP3 will cause incessant > boot problems when installed in an HP computer with an AMD processor. I > see > that there is a patch for this via the HP website. Of course, one wonders > how to install a patch on a computer that just keeps rebooting? Why didn't > Microsoft figure this problem out before releasing the update? There must > be > thousands of HP computers with AMD processors! Why didn't HP send out a > special alert to customers with AMD processors? > > These are the kinds of issues that infuriate customers, and lead to all > kinds of lawsuits. Thankfully, I read through this newsgroup and avoided > messing with this SP3 debacle for now. I am grateful to the contributors > to > this discussion who have saved me the headache of indulging in another > irresponsible, reckless, corporate abuse of its customers. Please correct > any misapprehensions I have expressed here about this. But it would appear > that, once again, the home computer industry is inducing unneeded stress, > and sacrificing the time of its end-users, for the public relations > illusion > of 'upgrading' our experience and enhancing our 'security.' > > MT
Guest sasha gottfried Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 As I mentioned........I have chosen not to install SP3 "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message news:OC9I%23WGwIHA.576@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Continual reboots or can only boot into Safe Mode after installing WinXP > SP3? > > See > http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/archive/2008/05/08/does-your-amd-based-computer-boot-after-installing-xp-sp3.aspx > [NB: The above has been updated many times and now includes "a small tool > that will detect the IntelPPM problem and mitigate it before installing > (WinXP SP3)."] > > Some other possible workarounds: > > • Boot into Safe Mode and rename INTELPMM.SYS to INTELPMM.OLD. > > • After booting into Safe Mode: > > Start | Run | (copy/paste) sc config intelppm start= disabled | OK | > Reboot into normal (Windows) mode. > > Other references: > > • http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?p=187790#p187790 > > • http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/09/windows_xp_sp3_reboots_crashes/ > > • > http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9084418 > > • You receive a “Stop 0x0000007E” error message after you upgrade to > Windows XP Service Pack 2 or Service Pack 3 on a non-Intel-processor-based > computer (Revised 06 May-08) > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/888372 > > • Unsupported Sysprep scenarios: > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/828287 > > • HP and Compaq Desktop PCs: Computer Restarts after Displaying Stop Error > 0x0000007E [after installing WinXP SP3] > http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?docname=c01457284&dlc=en&lc=en&cc=us > > • Microsoft Windows XP SP3 Upgrade Utility for systems with AMD processors > http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericSoftwareDownloadIndex?cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&softwareitem=pv-60484-1&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN > -- > ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) > MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002 > AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net > DTS-L http://dts-l.net/ > > sasha gottfried wrote: >> I've recently learned, via this newsgroup, that SP3 will cause incessant >> boot problems when installed in an HP computer with an AMD processor. I >> see >> that there is a patch for this via the HP website. Of course, one wonders >> how to install a patch on a computer that just keeps rebooting? Why >> didn't >> Microsoft figure this problem out before releasing the update? There must >> be >> thousands of HP computers with AMD processors! Why didn't HP send out a >> special alert to customers with AMD processors? >> >> These are the kinds of issues that infuriate customers, and lead to all >> kinds of lawsuits. Thankfully, I read through this newsgroup and avoided >> messing with this SP3 debacle for now. I am grateful to the contributors >> to >> this discussion who have saved me the headache of indulging in another >> irresponsible, reckless, corporate abuse of its customers. Please correct >> any misapprehensions I have expressed here about this. But it would >> appear >> that, once again, the home computer industry is inducing unneeded stress, >> and sacrificing the time of its end-users, for the public relations >> illusion >> of 'upgrading' our experience and enhancing our 'security.' >> >> MT >
Guest TaurArian Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 sasha gottfried You may have chosen not to install SP3 but others reading this thread may wish to proceed with the installation therefore the posting was updated to include more information by PA Bear regarding the HP/AMD computer. -- -------------------------------- TaurArian [MVP] 2005-2008 Update Services http://taurarian.mvps.org "sasha gottfried" wrote: > As I mentioned........I have chosen not to install SP3 > > "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:OC9I%23WGwIHA.576@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > > Continual reboots or can only boot into Safe Mode after installing WinXP > > SP3? > > > > See > > http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/archive/2008/05/08/does-your-amd-based-computer-boot-after-installing-xp-sp3.aspx > > [NB: The above has been updated many times and now includes "a small tool > > that will detect the IntelPPM problem and mitigate it before installing > > (WinXP SP3)."] > > > > Some other possible workarounds: > > > > • Boot into Safe Mode and rename INTELPMM.SYS to INTELPMM.OLD. > > > > • After booting into Safe Mode: > > > > Start | Run | (copy/paste) sc config intelppm start= disabled | OK | > > Reboot into normal (Windows) mode. > > > > Other references: > > > > • http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?p=187790#p187790 > > > > • http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/09/windows_xp_sp3_reboots_crashes/ > > > > • > > http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9084418 > > > > • You receive a “Stop 0x0000007E†error message after you upgrade to > > Windows XP Service Pack 2 or Service Pack 3 on a non-Intel-processor-based > > computer (Revised 06 May-08) > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/888372 > > > > • Unsupported Sysprep scenarios: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/828287 > > > > • HP and Compaq Desktop PCs: Computer Restarts after Displaying Stop Error > > 0x0000007E [after installing WinXP SP3] > > http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?docname=c01457284&dlc=en&lc=en&cc=us > > > > • Microsoft Windows XP SP3 Upgrade Utility for systems with AMD processors > > http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericSoftwareDownloadIndex?cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&softwareitem=pv-60484-1&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN > > -- > > ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) > > MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002 > > AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net > > DTS-L http://dts-l.net/ > > > > sasha gottfried wrote: > >> I've recently learned, via this newsgroup, that SP3 will cause incessant > >> boot problems when installed in an HP computer with an AMD processor. I > >> see > >> that there is a patch for this via the HP website. Of course, one wonders > >> how to install a patch on a computer that just keeps rebooting? Why > >> didn't > >> Microsoft figure this problem out before releasing the update? There must > >> be > >> thousands of HP computers with AMD processors! Why didn't HP send out a > >> special alert to customers with AMD processors? > >> > >> These are the kinds of issues that infuriate customers, and lead to all > >> kinds of lawsuits. Thankfully, I read through this newsgroup and avoided > >> messing with this SP3 debacle for now. I am grateful to the contributors > >> to > >> this discussion who have saved me the headache of indulging in another > >> irresponsible, reckless, corporate abuse of its customers. Please correct > >> any misapprehensions I have expressed here about this. But it would > >> appear > >> that, once again, the home computer industry is inducing unneeded stress, > >> and sacrificing the time of its end-users, for the public relations > >> illusion > >> of 'upgrading' our experience and enhancing our 'security.' > >> > >> MT > > > > >
Guest sasha gottfried Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 My point being: A computer user should not have to research the dangers of updates that are either automatically installed or offerred for download. Microsoft is NEGLIGENT by not testing these updates on common computers such as HP/AMD machines! "TaurArian" <taurarianREMOVECAPS@gmail.com> wrote in message news:E446974F-4711-420C-8E13-285112EB5300@microsoft.com... > sasha gottfried > > You may have chosen not to install SP3 but others reading this thread may > wish to proceed with the installation therefore the posting was updated to > include more information by PA Bear regarding the HP/AMD computer. > -- > > -------------------------------- > TaurArian [MVP] 2005-2008 > Update Services > http://taurarian.mvps.org > > > "sasha gottfried" wrote: > >> As I mentioned........I have chosen not to install SP3 >> >> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:OC9I%23WGwIHA.576@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> > Continual reboots or can only boot into Safe Mode after installing >> > WinXP >> > SP3? >> > >> > See >> > http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/archive/2008/05/08/does-your-amd-based-computer-boot-after-installing-xp-sp3.aspx >> > [NB: The above has been updated many times and now includes "a small >> > tool >> > that will detect the IntelPPM problem and mitigate it before installing >> > (WinXP SP3)."] >> > >> > Some other possible workarounds: >> > >> > . Boot into Safe Mode and rename INTELPMM.SYS to INTELPMM.OLD. >> > >> > . After booting into Safe Mode: >> > >> > Start | Run | (copy/paste) sc config intelppm start= disabled | OK | >> > Reboot into normal (Windows) mode. >> > >> > Other references: >> > >> > . http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?p=187790#p187790 >> > >> > . >> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/09/windows_xp_sp3_reboots_crashes/ >> > >> > . >> > http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9084418 >> > >> > . You receive a "Stop 0x0000007E" error message after you upgrade to >> > Windows XP Service Pack 2 or Service Pack 3 on a >> > non-Intel-processor-based >> > computer (Revised 06 May-08) >> > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/888372 >> > >> > . Unsupported Sysprep scenarios: >> > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/828287 >> > >> > . HP and Compaq Desktop PCs: Computer Restarts after Displaying Stop >> > Error >> > 0x0000007E [after installing WinXP SP3] >> > http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?docname=c01457284&dlc=en&lc=en&cc=us >> > >> > . Microsoft Windows XP SP3 Upgrade Utility for systems with AMD >> > processors >> > http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericSoftwareDownloadIndex?cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&softwareitem=pv-60484-1&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN >> > -- >> > ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) >> > MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002 >> > AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net >> > DTS-L http://dts-l.net/ >> > >> > sasha gottfried wrote: >> >> I've recently learned, via this newsgroup, that SP3 will cause >> >> incessant >> >> boot problems when installed in an HP computer with an AMD processor. >> >> I >> >> see >> >> that there is a patch for this via the HP website. Of course, one >> >> wonders >> >> how to install a patch on a computer that just keeps rebooting? Why >> >> didn't >> >> Microsoft figure this problem out before releasing the update? There >> >> must >> >> be >> >> thousands of HP computers with AMD processors! Why didn't HP send out >> >> a >> >> special alert to customers with AMD processors? >> >> >> >> These are the kinds of issues that infuriate customers, and lead to >> >> all >> >> kinds of lawsuits. Thankfully, I read through this newsgroup and >> >> avoided >> >> messing with this SP3 debacle for now. I am grateful to the >> >> contributors >> >> to >> >> this discussion who have saved me the headache of indulging in another >> >> irresponsible, reckless, corporate abuse of its customers. Please >> >> correct >> >> any misapprehensions I have expressed here about this. But it would >> >> appear >> >> that, once again, the home computer industry is inducing unneeded >> >> stress, >> >> and sacrificing the time of its end-users, for the public relations >> >> illusion >> >> of 'upgrading' our experience and enhancing our 'security.' >> >> >> >> MT >> > >> >> >>
Guest TaurArian Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 The majority of software companies release updates to their software on a regular basis. It is impossible to test these updates on every single configuration known to the geek world therefore it is up to the user to ensure that they are able to update there software within reason and should they need any assistance, then assistance is provided. The choice is with the user whether or not they wish to update etc. So who caused the HP/AMD problem? -- -------------------------------- TaurArian [MVP] 2005-2008 Update Services http://taurarian.mvps.org "sasha gottfried" wrote: > My point being: > > A computer user should not have to research the dangers of updates that are > either automatically installed or offerred for download. Microsoft is > NEGLIGENT by not testing these updates on common computers such as HP/AMD > machines! > > > "TaurArian" <taurarianREMOVECAPS@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:E446974F-4711-420C-8E13-285112EB5300@microsoft.com... > > sasha gottfried > > > > You may have chosen not to install SP3 but others reading this thread may > > wish to proceed with the installation therefore the posting was updated to > > include more information by PA Bear regarding the HP/AMD computer. > > -- > > > > -------------------------------- > > TaurArian [MVP] 2005-2008 > > Update Services > > http://taurarian.mvps.org > > > > > > "sasha gottfried" wrote: > > > >> As I mentioned........I have chosen not to install SP3 > >> > >> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message > >> news:OC9I%23WGwIHA.576@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > >> > Continual reboots or can only boot into Safe Mode after installing > >> > WinXP > >> > SP3? > >> > > >> > See > >> > http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/archive/2008/05/08/does-your-amd-based-computer-boot-after-installing-xp-sp3.aspx > >> > [NB: The above has been updated many times and now includes "a small > >> > tool > >> > that will detect the IntelPPM problem and mitigate it before installing > >> > (WinXP SP3)."] > >> > > >> > Some other possible workarounds: > >> > > >> > . Boot into Safe Mode and rename INTELPMM.SYS to INTELPMM.OLD. > >> > > >> > . After booting into Safe Mode: > >> > > >> > Start | Run | (copy/paste) sc config intelppm start= disabled | OK | > >> > Reboot into normal (Windows) mode. > >> > > >> > Other references: > >> > > >> > . http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?p=187790#p187790 > >> > > >> > . > >> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/09/windows_xp_sp3_reboots_crashes/ > >> > > >> > . > >> > http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9084418 > >> > > >> > . You receive a "Stop 0x0000007E" error message after you upgrade to > >> > Windows XP Service Pack 2 or Service Pack 3 on a > >> > non-Intel-processor-based > >> > computer (Revised 06 May-08) > >> > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/888372 > >> > > >> > . Unsupported Sysprep scenarios: > >> > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/828287 > >> > > >> > . HP and Compaq Desktop PCs: Computer Restarts after Displaying Stop > >> > Error > >> > 0x0000007E [after installing WinXP SP3] > >> > http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?docname=c01457284&dlc=en&lc=en&cc=us > >> > > >> > . Microsoft Windows XP SP3 Upgrade Utility for systems with AMD > >> > processors > >> > http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericSoftwareDownloadIndex?cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&softwareitem=pv-60484-1&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN > >> > -- > >> > ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) > >> > MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002 > >> > AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net > >> > DTS-L http://dts-l.net/ > >> > > >> > sasha gottfried wrote: > >> >> I've recently learned, via this newsgroup, that SP3 will cause > >> >> incessant > >> >> boot problems when installed in an HP computer with an AMD processor. > >> >> I > >> >> see > >> >> that there is a patch for this via the HP website. Of course, one > >> >> wonders > >> >> how to install a patch on a computer that just keeps rebooting? Why > >> >> didn't > >> >> Microsoft figure this problem out before releasing the update? There > >> >> must > >> >> be > >> >> thousands of HP computers with AMD processors! Why didn't HP send out > >> >> a > >> >> special alert to customers with AMD processors? > >> >> > >> >> These are the kinds of issues that infuriate customers, and lead to > >> >> all > >> >> kinds of lawsuits. Thankfully, I read through this newsgroup and > >> >> avoided > >> >> messing with this SP3 debacle for now. I am grateful to the > >> >> contributors > >> >> to > >> >> this discussion who have saved me the headache of indulging in another > >> >> irresponsible, reckless, corporate abuse of its customers. Please > >> >> correct > >> >> any misapprehensions I have expressed here about this. But it would > >> >> appear > >> >> that, once again, the home computer industry is inducing unneeded > >> >> stress, > >> >> and sacrificing the time of its end-users, for the public relations > >> >> illusion > >> >> of 'upgrading' our experience and enhancing our 'security.' > >> >> > >> >> MT > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >
Guest Shenan Stanley Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 sasha gottfried wrote: > I've recently learned, via this newsgroup, that SP3 will cause > incessant boot problems when installed in an HP computer with an > AMD processor. I see that there is a patch for this via the HP > website. Of course, one wonders how to install a patch on a > computer that just keeps rebooting? Why didn't Microsoft figure > this problem out before releasing the update? There must be > thousands of HP computers with AMD processors! Why didn't HP send > out a special alert to customers with AMD processors? > These are the kinds of issues that infuriate customers, and lead to > all kinds of lawsuits. Thankfully, I read through this newsgroup > and avoided messing with this SP3 debacle for now. I am grateful to > the contributors to this discussion who have saved me the headache > of indulging in another irresponsible, reckless, corporate abuse of > its customers. Please correct any misapprehensions I have expressed > here about this. But it would appear that, once again, the home > computer industry is inducing unneeded stress, and sacrificing the > time of its end-users, for the public relations illusion of 'upgrading' > our experience and enhancing our 'security.' The problem was not *any* computer with an AMD processor or any HP system with an AMD processor - but those computers (any OEM) that had an 'image' applied to it that was created and intended for a computer with an Intel processor. Some of the HP computers were done this way - thus the reboot situation in many of the cases - and HP is a large distributor/pusher of AMD systems... In other words - it was not something that could have been known beforehand by Microsoft. Your accusations should fly towards the OEM that decided to make a single installation image and apply it to all machines - AMD and Intel alike... SP3 just 'exposed' the mistake of applying such an image (one based on Intel procesors) onto such a machine (an AMD processor based machine) without fixing it afterwards... -- Shenan Stanley MS-MVP -- How To Ask Questions The Smart Way http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Guest PA Bear [MS MVP] Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 We shall alert the media. sasha gottfried wrote: > As I mentioned........I have chosen not to install SP3 > > "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:OC9I%23WGwIHA.576@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> Continual reboots or can only boot into Safe Mode after installing WinXP >> SP3? >> >> See >> http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/archive/2008/05/08/does-your-amd-based-computer-boot-after-installing-xp-sp3.aspx >> [NB: The above has been updated many times and now includes "a small tool >> that will detect the IntelPPM problem and mitigate it before installing >> (WinXP SP3)."] >> >> Some other possible workarounds: >> >> • Boot into Safe Mode and rename INTELPMM.SYS to INTELPMM.OLD. >> >> • After booting into Safe Mode: >> >> Start | Run | (copy/paste) sc config intelppm start= disabled | OK | >> Reboot into normal (Windows) mode. >> >> Other references: >> >> • http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?p=187790#p187790 >> >> • http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/09/windows_xp_sp3_reboots_crashes/ >> >> • >> http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9084418 >> >> • You receive a “Stop 0x0000007E” error message after you upgrade to >> Windows XP Service Pack 2 or Service Pack 3 on a >> non-Intel-processor-based >> computer (Revised 06 May-08) >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/888372 >> >> • Unsupported Sysprep scenarios: >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/828287 >> >> • HP and Compaq Desktop PCs: Computer Restarts after Displaying Stop >> Error >> 0x0000007E [after installing WinXP SP3] >> http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?docname=c01457284&dlc=en&lc=en&cc=us >> >> • Microsoft Windows XP SP3 Upgrade Utility for systems with AMD >> processors >> http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericSoftwareDownloadIndex?cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&softwareitem=pv-60484-1&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN >> -- >> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) >> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002 >> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net >> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/ >> >> sasha gottfried wrote: >>> I've recently learned, via this newsgroup, that SP3 will cause incessant >>> boot problems when installed in an HP computer with an AMD processor. I >>> see >>> that there is a patch for this via the HP website. Of course, one >>> wonders >>> how to install a patch on a computer that just keeps rebooting? Why >>> didn't >>> Microsoft figure this problem out before releasing the update? There >>> must >>> be >>> thousands of HP computers with AMD processors! Why didn't HP send out a >>> special alert to customers with AMD processors? >>> >>> These are the kinds of issues that infuriate customers, and lead to all >>> kinds of lawsuits. Thankfully, I read through this newsgroup and avoided >>> messing with this SP3 debacle for now. I am grateful to the contributors >>> to >>> this discussion who have saved me the headache of indulging in another >>> irresponsible, reckless, corporate abuse of its customers. Please >>> correct >>> any misapprehensions I have expressed here about this. But it would >>> appear >>> that, once again, the home computer industry is inducing unneeded >>> stress, >>> and sacrificing the time of its end-users, for the public relations >>> illusion >>> of 'upgrading' our experience and enhancing our 'security.' >>> >>> MT
Guest TaurArian Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 And where have you been the last 2 days???????? -- -------------------------------- TaurArian [MVP] 2005-2008 Update Services http://taurarian.mvps.org "PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote: > We shall alert the media. > > sasha gottfried wrote: > > As I mentioned........I have chosen not to install SP3 > > > > "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:OC9I%23WGwIHA.576@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > >> Continual reboots or can only boot into Safe Mode after installing WinXP > >> SP3? > >> > >> See > >> http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/archive/2008/05/08/does-your-amd-based-computer-boot-after-installing-xp-sp3.aspx > >> [NB: The above has been updated many times and now includes "a small tool > >> that will detect the IntelPPM problem and mitigate it before installing > >> (WinXP SP3)."] > >> > >> Some other possible workarounds: > >> > >> • Boot into Safe Mode and rename INTELPMM.SYS to INTELPMM.OLD. > >> > >> • After booting into Safe Mode: > >> > >> Start | Run | (copy/paste) sc config intelppm start= disabled | OK | > >> Reboot into normal (Windows) mode. > >> > >> Other references: > >> > >> • http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?p=187790#p187790 > >> > >> • http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/09/windows_xp_sp3_reboots_crashes/ > >> > >> • > >> http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9084418 > >> > >> • You receive a “Stop 0x0000007E†error message after you upgrade to > >> Windows XP Service Pack 2 or Service Pack 3 on a > >> non-Intel-processor-based > >> computer (Revised 06 May-08) > >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/888372 > >> > >> • Unsupported Sysprep scenarios: > >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/828287 > >> > >> • HP and Compaq Desktop PCs: Computer Restarts after Displaying Stop > >> Error > >> 0x0000007E [after installing WinXP SP3] > >> http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?docname=c01457284&dlc=en&lc=en&cc=us > >> > >> • Microsoft Windows XP SP3 Upgrade Utility for systems with AMD > >> processors > >> http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericSoftwareDownloadIndex?cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&softwareitem=pv-60484-1&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN > >> -- > >> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) > >> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002 > >> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net > >> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/ > >> > >> sasha gottfried wrote: > >>> I've recently learned, via this newsgroup, that SP3 will cause incessant > >>> boot problems when installed in an HP computer with an AMD processor. I > >>> see > >>> that there is a patch for this via the HP website. Of course, one > >>> wonders > >>> how to install a patch on a computer that just keeps rebooting? Why > >>> didn't > >>> Microsoft figure this problem out before releasing the update? There > >>> must > >>> be > >>> thousands of HP computers with AMD processors! Why didn't HP send out a > >>> special alert to customers with AMD processors? > >>> > >>> These are the kinds of issues that infuriate customers, and lead to all > >>> kinds of lawsuits. Thankfully, I read through this newsgroup and avoided > >>> messing with this SP3 debacle for now. I am grateful to the contributors > >>> to > >>> this discussion who have saved me the headache of indulging in another > >>> irresponsible, reckless, corporate abuse of its customers. Please > >>> correct > >>> any misapprehensions I have expressed here about this. But it would > >>> appear > >>> that, once again, the home computer industry is inducing unneeded > >>> stress, > >>> and sacrificing the time of its end-users, for the public relations > >>> illusion > >>> of 'upgrading' our experience and enhancing our 'security.' > >>> > >>> MT > >
Guest sasha gottfried Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 Doesn't Microsoft confer with major computer manufacturers before putting out a major OS upgrade? As you say, HP manufactures many AMD based computers. Are you telling me Microsoft isn't aware of this, or doesn't bother testing their SP3 on such systems using this 'image' applied? You'd think that between HP and Microsoft they would 'expose' the mistake before allowing it to be foisted on customers. But hell, our time is not THEIR money, is it? MT "Shenan Stanley" <newshelper@gmail.com> wrote in message news:%23idGSaIwIHA.3564@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > sasha gottfried wrote: >> I've recently learned, via this newsgroup, that SP3 will cause >> incessant boot problems when installed in an HP computer with an >> AMD processor. I see that there is a patch for this via the HP >> website. Of course, one wonders how to install a patch on a >> computer that just keeps rebooting? Why didn't Microsoft figure >> this problem out before releasing the update? There must be >> thousands of HP computers with AMD processors! Why didn't HP send >> out a special alert to customers with AMD processors? >> These are the kinds of issues that infuriate customers, and lead to >> all kinds of lawsuits. Thankfully, I read through this newsgroup >> and avoided messing with this SP3 debacle for now. I am grateful to >> the contributors to this discussion who have saved me the headache >> of indulging in another irresponsible, reckless, corporate abuse of >> its customers. Please correct any misapprehensions I have expressed >> here about this. But it would appear that, once again, the home >> computer industry is inducing unneeded stress, and sacrificing the >> time of its end-users, for the public relations illusion of 'upgrading' >> our experience and enhancing our 'security.' > > The problem was not *any* computer with an AMD processor or any HP system > with an AMD processor - but those computers (any OEM) that had an 'image' > applied to it that was created and intended for a computer with an Intel > processor. Some of the HP computers were done this way - thus the reboot > situation in many of the cases - and HP is a large distributor/pusher of > AMD systems... > > In other words - it was not something that could have been known > beforehand by Microsoft. Your accusations should fly towards the OEM that > decided to make a single installation image and apply it to all machines - > AMD and Intel alike... SP3 just 'exposed' the mistake of applying such an > image (one based on Intel procesors) onto such a machine (an AMD processor > based machine) without fixing it afterwards... > > -- > Shenan Stanley > MS-MVP > -- > How To Ask Questions The Smart Way > http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html >
Guest PA Bear [MS MVP] Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 Check your inbox. TaurArian wrote: > And where have you been the last 2 days???????? > >> We shall alert the media. >> >> sasha gottfried wrote: >>> As I mentioned........I have chosen not to install SP3 >>> >>> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message >>> news:OC9I%23WGwIHA.576@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>> Continual reboots or can only boot into Safe Mode after installing >>>> WinXP >>>> SP3? >>>> >>>> See >>>> http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/archive/2008/05/08/does-your-amd-based-computer-boot-after-installing-xp-sp3.aspx >>>> [NB: The above has been updated many times and now includes "a small >>>> tool >>>> that will detect the IntelPPM problem and mitigate it before installing >>>> (WinXP SP3)."] >>>> >>>> Some other possible workarounds: >>>> >>>> • Boot into Safe Mode and rename INTELPMM.SYS to INTELPMM.OLD. >>>> >>>> • After booting into Safe Mode: >>>> >>>> Start | Run | (copy/paste) sc config intelppm start= disabled | OK | >>>> Reboot into normal (Windows) mode. >>>> >>>> Other references: >>>> >>>> • http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?p=187790#p187790 >>>> >>>> • >>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/09/windows_xp_sp3_reboots_crashes/ >>>> >>>> • >>>> http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9084418 >>>> >>>> • You receive a “Stop 0x0000007E†error message after you upgrade to >>>> Windows XP Service Pack 2 or Service Pack 3 on a >>>> non-Intel-processor-based >>>> computer (Revised 06 May-08) >>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/888372 >>>> >>>> • Unsupported Sysprep scenarios: >>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/828287 >>>> >>>> • HP and Compaq Desktop PCs: Computer Restarts after Displaying Stop >>>> Error >>>> 0x0000007E [after installing WinXP SP3] >>>> http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?docname=c01457284&dlc=en&lc=en&cc=us >>>> >>>> • Microsoft Windows XP SP3 Upgrade Utility for systems with AMD >>>> processors >>>> http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericSoftwareDownloadIndex?cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&softwareitem=pv-60484-1&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN >>>> -- >>>> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) >>>> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002 >>>> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net >>>> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/ >>>> >>>> sasha gottfried wrote: >>>>> I've recently learned, via this newsgroup, that SP3 will cause >>>>> incessant >>>>> boot problems when installed in an HP computer with an AMD processor. >>>>> I >>>>> see >>>>> that there is a patch for this via the HP website. Of course, one >>>>> wonders >>>>> how to install a patch on a computer that just keeps rebooting? Why >>>>> didn't >>>>> Microsoft figure this problem out before releasing the update? There >>>>> must >>>>> be >>>>> thousands of HP computers with AMD processors! Why didn't HP send out >>>>> a >>>>> special alert to customers with AMD processors? >>>>> >>>>> These are the kinds of issues that infuriate customers, and lead to >>>>> all >>>>> kinds of lawsuits. Thankfully, I read through this newsgroup and >>>>> avoided >>>>> messing with this SP3 debacle for now. I am grateful to the >>>>> contributors >>>>> to >>>>> this discussion who have saved me the headache of indulging in another >>>>> irresponsible, reckless, corporate abuse of its customers. Please >>>>> correct >>>>> any misapprehensions I have expressed here about this. But it would >>>>> appear >>>>> that, once again, the home computer industry is inducing unneeded >>>>> stress, >>>>> and sacrificing the time of its end-users, for the public relations >>>>> illusion >>>>> of 'upgrading' our experience and enhancing our 'security.' >>>>> >>>>> MT
Guest PA Bear [MS MVP] Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 Put the shoe on the other foot: Beta testing of WinXP SP3 started over a year ago. Are you telling me that OEMs weren't aware of it and didn't test it on their machines running WinXP SP2? We saw nearly identical behavior on machines were Sysprep was used when SP2 was released. Are you telling me that OEMs don't learn from history? -- ~PA Bear sasha gottfried wrote: > Doesn't Microsoft confer with major computer manufacturers before putting > out a major OS upgrade? As you say, HP manufactures many AMD based > computers. Are you telling me Microsoft isn't aware of this, or doesn't > bother testing their SP3 on such systems using this 'image' applied? You'd > think that between HP and Microsoft they would 'expose' the mistake before > allowing it to be foisted on customers. But hell, our time is not THEIR > money, is it? > > MT > > > "Shenan Stanley" <newshelper@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:%23idGSaIwIHA.3564@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >> sasha gottfried wrote: >>> I've recently learned, via this newsgroup, that SP3 will cause >>> incessant boot problems when installed in an HP computer with an >>> AMD processor. I see that there is a patch for this via the HP >>> website. Of course, one wonders how to install a patch on a >>> computer that just keeps rebooting? Why didn't Microsoft figure >>> this problem out before releasing the update? There must be >>> thousands of HP computers with AMD processors! Why didn't HP send >>> out a special alert to customers with AMD processors? >>> These are the kinds of issues that infuriate customers, and lead to >>> all kinds of lawsuits. Thankfully, I read through this newsgroup >>> and avoided messing with this SP3 debacle for now. I am grateful to >>> the contributors to this discussion who have saved me the headache >>> of indulging in another irresponsible, reckless, corporate abuse of >>> its customers. Please correct any misapprehensions I have expressed >>> here about this. But it would appear that, once again, the home >>> computer industry is inducing unneeded stress, and sacrificing the >>> time of its end-users, for the public relations illusion of 'upgrading' >>> our experience and enhancing our 'security.' >> >> The problem was not *any* computer with an AMD processor or any HP system >> with an AMD processor - but those computers (any OEM) that had an 'image' >> applied to it that was created and intended for a computer with an Intel >> processor. Some of the HP computers were done this way - thus the reboot >> situation in many of the cases - and HP is a large distributor/pusher of >> AMD systems... >> >> In other words - it was not something that could have been known >> beforehand by Microsoft. Your accusations should fly towards the OEM >> that >> decided to make a single installation image and apply it to all >> machines - >> AMD and Intel alike... SP3 just 'exposed' the mistake of applying such >> an >> image (one based on Intel procesors) onto such a machine (an AMD >> processor >> based machine) without fixing it afterwards... >> >> -- >> Shenan Stanley >> MS-MVP >> -- >> How To Ask Questions The Smart Way >> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Guest Shenan Stanley Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 sasha gottfried wrote: > Doesn't Microsoft confer with major computer manufacturers before > putting out a major OS upgrade? As you say, HP manufactures many > AMD based computers. Are you telling me Microsoft isn't aware of > this, or doesn't bother testing their SP3 on such systems using > this 'image' applied? You'd think that between HP and Microsoft > they would 'expose' the mistake before allowing it to be foisted on > customers. But hell, our time is not THEIR money, is it? The OEMs pay less to Microsoft for the licenses of Windows XP (OEM License agreements) so they can make more profit selling to the end-consumer and for that they provide the end-consumer support for the machine - including the installed OS. That is a choice they made. Given that choice and the fact that SP3 has been available in some form (beta and otherwise) to the OEMs for over a year - they should have taken the responsibility and tested it. Not to mention - any OEM that decided an AMD processor was the same as an Intel processor (thus making one image) likely should have thought that out better. I am having trouble seeing it from your point of view that Microsoft (SP3) is to blame when it was not Microsoft that made the image being used by said OEMs nor were they the ones responsible for testing things on the OEMs own equipment. -- Shenan Stanley MS-MVP -- How To Ask Questions The Smart Way http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Guest sasha gottfried Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 Don't tell me Microsoft wasn't aware of this! Or was it just a set-up to blame the OEM's? Either way.......the customer loses! "Shenan Stanley" <newshelper@gmail.com> wrote in message news:%23tNEvWPwIHA.2188@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > sasha gottfried wrote: >> Doesn't Microsoft confer with major computer manufacturers before >> putting out a major OS upgrade? As you say, HP manufactures many >> AMD based computers. Are you telling me Microsoft isn't aware of >> this, or doesn't bother testing their SP3 on such systems using >> this 'image' applied? You'd think that between HP and Microsoft >> they would 'expose' the mistake before allowing it to be foisted on >> customers. But hell, our time is not THEIR money, is it? > > The OEMs pay less to Microsoft for the licenses of Windows XP (OEM License > agreements) so they can make more profit selling to the end-consumer and > for that they provide the end-consumer support for the machine - including > the installed OS. That is a choice they made. > > Given that choice and the fact that SP3 has been available in some form > (beta and otherwise) to the OEMs for over a year - they should have taken > the responsibility and tested it. Not to mention - any OEM that decided > an AMD processor was the same as an Intel processor (thus making one > image) likely should have thought that out better. I am having trouble > seeing it from your point of view that Microsoft (SP3) is to blame when it > was not Microsoft that made the image being used by said OEMs nor were > they the ones responsible for testing things on the OEMs own equipment. > > -- > Shenan Stanley > MS-MVP > -- > How To Ask Questions The Smart Way > http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html >
Guest Shenan Stanley Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 sasha gottfried wrote: > Don't tell me Microsoft wasn't aware of this! Or was it just a > set-up to blame the OEM's? Either way.......the customer loses! Why would Microsoft be aware that __some__ OEMs decided to make a single disk image on an Intel processor machine and apply it to all of the machines that they sold (intel and AMD based)? Please explain the connection to me. I truly do not understand how you are making that connection. -- Shenan Stanley MS-MVP -- How To Ask Questions The Smart Way http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Guest MowGreen [MVP] Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 I agree that the customer loses, sasha. BUT, HP has been well aware of Unsupported Sysprep Scenarios for quite some time now: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/828287 Read the ' Different processor vendors ' section. There is definitely something amiss with how MS tests updates|SPs and with their lack of communication skills. However, this issue is directly attributable to HP, plain and simple. MowGreen [MVP 2003-2008] =============== *-343-* FDNY Never Forgotten =============== sasha gottfried wrote: > Don't tell me Microsoft wasn't aware of this! Or was it just a set-up to > blame the OEM's? Either way.......the customer loses! > > > "Shenan Stanley" <newshelper@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:%23tNEvWPwIHA.2188@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > >>sasha gottfried wrote: >> >>>Doesn't Microsoft confer with major computer manufacturers before >>>putting out a major OS upgrade? As you say, HP manufactures many >>>AMD based computers. Are you telling me Microsoft isn't aware of >>>this, or doesn't bother testing their SP3 on such systems using >>>this 'image' applied? You'd think that between HP and Microsoft >>>they would 'expose' the mistake before allowing it to be foisted on >>>customers. But hell, our time is not THEIR money, is it? >> >>The OEMs pay less to Microsoft for the licenses of Windows XP (OEM License >>agreements) so they can make more profit selling to the end-consumer and >>for that they provide the end-consumer support for the machine - including >>the installed OS. That is a choice they made. >> >>Given that choice and the fact that SP3 has been available in some form >>(beta and otherwise) to the OEMs for over a year - they should have taken >>the responsibility and tested it. Not to mention - any OEM that decided >>an AMD processor was the same as an Intel processor (thus making one >>image) likely should have thought that out better. I am having trouble >>seeing it from your point of view that Microsoft (SP3) is to blame when it >>was not Microsoft that made the image being used by said OEMs nor were >>they the ones responsible for testing things on the OEMs own equipment. >> >>-- >>Shenan Stanley >> MS-MVP >>-- >>How To Ask Questions The Smart Way >>http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html >> > > >
Guest sasha gottfried Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 The blame game can go on and on. The arrogance, and lack of communication between these mega-bux, computer comrades is criminal. Who expects John Q Customer to know what the hell "Sysrep Scenarios" are anyway! Pathetic! But thanks to this newsgroup for the heads up on these corporate clowns. MT "MowGreen [MVP]" <mowgreen@nowandzen.com> wrote in message news:OFCUI$PwIHA.548@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >I agree that the customer loses, sasha. BUT, HP has been well aware of >Unsupported Sysprep Scenarios for quite some time now: > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/828287 > > Read the ' Different processor vendors ' section. > There is definitely something amiss with how MS tests updates|SPs and with > their lack of communication skills. > > However, this issue is directly attributable to HP, plain and simple. > > MowGreen [MVP 2003-2008] > =============== > *-343-* FDNY > Never Forgotten > =============== > > > > > sasha gottfried wrote: > >> Don't tell me Microsoft wasn't aware of this! Or was it just a set-up to >> blame the OEM's? Either way.......the customer loses! >> >> >> "Shenan Stanley" <newshelper@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:%23tNEvWPwIHA.2188@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> >>>sasha gottfried wrote: >>> >>>>Doesn't Microsoft confer with major computer manufacturers before >>>>putting out a major OS upgrade? As you say, HP manufactures many >>>>AMD based computers. Are you telling me Microsoft isn't aware of >>>>this, or doesn't bother testing their SP3 on such systems using >>>>this 'image' applied? You'd think that between HP and Microsoft >>>>they would 'expose' the mistake before allowing it to be foisted on >>>>customers. But hell, our time is not THEIR money, is it? >>> >>>The OEMs pay less to Microsoft for the licenses of Windows XP (OEM >>>License agreements) so they can make more profit selling to the >>>end-consumer and for that they provide the end-consumer support for the >>>machine - including the installed OS. That is a choice they made. >>> >>>Given that choice and the fact that SP3 has been available in some form >>>(beta and otherwise) to the OEMs for over a year - they should have taken >>>the responsibility and tested it. Not to mention - any OEM that decided >>>an AMD processor was the same as an Intel processor (thus making one >>>image) likely should have thought that out better. I am having trouble >>>seeing it from your point of view that Microsoft (SP3) is to blame when >>>it was not Microsoft that made the image being used by said OEMs nor were >>>they the ones responsible for testing things on the OEMs own equipment. >>> >>>-- >>>Shenan Stanley >>> MS-MVP >>>-- >>>How To Ask Questions The Smart Way >>>http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html >>> >> >>
Guest PA Bear [MS MVP] Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 Get yourself an abacus, Sasha. sasha gottfried wrote: > The blame game can go on and on. The arrogance, and lack of communication > between these mega-bux, computer comrades is criminal. Who expects John Q > Customer to know what the hell "Sysrep Scenarios" are anyway! > > Pathetic! > > But thanks to this newsgroup for the heads up on these corporate clowns. > > MT > > > > "MowGreen [MVP]" <mowgreen@nowandzen.com> wrote in message > news:OFCUI$PwIHA.548@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> I agree that the customer loses, sasha. BUT, HP has been well aware of >> Unsupported Sysprep Scenarios for quite some time now: >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/828287 >> >> Read the ' Different processor vendors ' section. >> There is definitely something amiss with how MS tests updates|SPs and >> with >> their lack of communication skills. >> >> However, this issue is directly attributable to HP, plain and simple. >> >> MowGreen [MVP 2003-2008] >> =============== >> *-343-* FDNY >> Never Forgotten >> =============== >> >> >> >> >> sasha gottfried wrote: >> >>> Don't tell me Microsoft wasn't aware of this! Or was it just a set-up to >>> blame the OEM's? Either way.......the customer loses! >>> >>> >>> "Shenan Stanley" <newshelper@gmail.com> wrote in message >>> news:%23tNEvWPwIHA.2188@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>> >>>> sasha gottfried wrote: >>>> >>>>> Doesn't Microsoft confer with major computer manufacturers before >>>>> putting out a major OS upgrade? As you say, HP manufactures many >>>>> AMD based computers. Are you telling me Microsoft isn't aware of >>>>> this, or doesn't bother testing their SP3 on such systems using >>>>> this 'image' applied? You'd think that between HP and Microsoft >>>>> they would 'expose' the mistake before allowing it to be foisted on >>>>> customers. But hell, our time is not THEIR money, is it? >>>> >>>> The OEMs pay less to Microsoft for the licenses of Windows XP (OEM >>>> License agreements) so they can make more profit selling to the >>>> end-consumer and for that they provide the end-consumer support for the >>>> machine - including the installed OS. That is a choice they made. >>>> >>>> Given that choice and the fact that SP3 has been available in some form >>>> (beta and otherwise) to the OEMs for over a year - they should have >>>> taken >>>> the responsibility and tested it. Not to mention - any OEM that >>>> decided >>>> an AMD processor was the same as an Intel processor (thus making one >>>> image) likely should have thought that out better. I am having trouble >>>> seeing it from your point of view that Microsoft (SP3) is to blame when >>>> it was not Microsoft that made the image being used by said OEMs nor >>>> were >>>> they the ones responsible for testing things on the OEMs own equipment. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Shenan Stanley >>>> MS-MVP >>>> -- >>>> How To Ask Questions The Smart Way >>>> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Guest sasha gottfried Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 Yo' I can count...... Frankly, from a customer's standpoint, it doesn't matter who screwed up here. HP uses Microsoft and Microsoft uses HP. Meanwhile, in situations like this, they both USE the USER. Who are these prgrammers anyway? 25 year old hyped up ego-maniacal geeks playing inter-corporate competetive games with themselves? Like I say: OUR time...THEIR money. "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message news:uaoIyWVwIHA.5892@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > Get yourself an abacus, Sasha. > > sasha gottfried wrote: >> The blame game can go on and on. The arrogance, and lack of communication >> between these mega-bux, computer comrades is criminal. Who expects John Q >> Customer to know what the hell "Sysrep Scenarios" are anyway! >> >> Pathetic! >> >> But thanks to this newsgroup for the heads up on these corporate clowns. >> >> MT >> >> >> >> "MowGreen [MVP]" <mowgreen@nowandzen.com> wrote in message >> news:OFCUI$PwIHA.548@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>> I agree that the customer loses, sasha. BUT, HP has been well aware of >>> Unsupported Sysprep Scenarios for quite some time now: >>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/828287 >>> >>> Read the ' Different processor vendors ' section. >>> There is definitely something amiss with how MS tests updates|SPs and >>> with >>> their lack of communication skills. >>> >>> However, this issue is directly attributable to HP, plain and simple. >>> >>> MowGreen [MVP 2003-2008] >>> =============== >>> *-343-* FDNY >>> Never Forgotten >>> =============== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> sasha gottfried wrote: >>> >>>> Don't tell me Microsoft wasn't aware of this! Or was it just a set-up >>>> to >>>> blame the OEM's? Either way.......the customer loses! >>>> >>>> >>>> "Shenan Stanley" <newshelper@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:%23tNEvWPwIHA.2188@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>> >>>>> sasha gottfried wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Doesn't Microsoft confer with major computer manufacturers before >>>>>> putting out a major OS upgrade? As you say, HP manufactures many >>>>>> AMD based computers. Are you telling me Microsoft isn't aware of >>>>>> this, or doesn't bother testing their SP3 on such systems using >>>>>> this 'image' applied? You'd think that between HP and Microsoft >>>>>> they would 'expose' the mistake before allowing it to be foisted on >>>>>> customers. But hell, our time is not THEIR money, is it? >>>>> >>>>> The OEMs pay less to Microsoft for the licenses of Windows XP (OEM >>>>> License agreements) so they can make more profit selling to the >>>>> end-consumer and for that they provide the end-consumer support for >>>>> the >>>>> machine - including the installed OS. That is a choice they made. >>>>> >>>>> Given that choice and the fact that SP3 has been available in some >>>>> form >>>>> (beta and otherwise) to the OEMs for over a year - they should have >>>>> taken >>>>> the responsibility and tested it. Not to mention - any OEM that >>>>> decided >>>>> an AMD processor was the same as an Intel processor (thus making one >>>>> image) likely should have thought that out better. I am having >>>>> trouble >>>>> seeing it from your point of view that Microsoft (SP3) is to blame >>>>> when >>>>> it was not Microsoft that made the image being used by said OEMs nor >>>>> were >>>>> they the ones responsible for testing things on the OEMs own >>>>> equipment. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Shenan Stanley >>>>> MS-MVP >>>>> -- >>>>> How To Ask Questions The Smart Way >>>>> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html >
Guest Alias Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 sasha gottfried wrote: > Yo' > > I can count...... Frankly, from a customer's standpoint, it doesn't matter > who screwed up here. HP uses Microsoft and Microsoft uses HP. Meanwhile, in > situations like this, they both USE the USER. Who are these prgrammers > anyway? 25 year old hyped up ego-maniacal geeks playing inter-corporate > competetive games with themselves? > > Like I say: OUR time...THEIR money. You'll never convince the MS fanboys that MS *ever* makes a mistake. They're acting like HP is some small mom and pop outfit that MS has never heard of. The TRUTH is that MS throws out software for the paying customer to test and then, and only then, they will put out a fix. For instance, Vista was NOT ready for the public and won't be until there's an SP2. Meanwhile, MS gets millions to test it for free and to top it off, they PAY MS to test it. You're right it's criminal. Fed up? Check out Ubuntu at http://www.ubuntu.com/. It's free and comes with access to over 23,000 free programs. What can be done with Ubuntu? This: Email Surf the web Burn CDs. Rip CDs. Listen to music. Watch vidoes/DVDs. Scan and print. Spreadsheets. Presentations Newsgroups. HTML editing. Games like Chess, Tetris, all kinds of solitaire, etc. Make videos. Download photos from a camera and organize them. Translations. Use a dictionary Learn how to touch type. Edit images. Send and receive a fax. Take screenshots. Create .PDF files. Create and use a data base. Instant messaging with over 10 different programs in one including Windows Live Messenger. IRC. Bluetooth. and much more! What you can't do with Ubuntu: Worry about: The next update hosing your system, WPA and WGA raising their ugly heads, DRM, Viruses, Root kits, Spyware, and Malware. Alias > > > > "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:uaoIyWVwIHA.5892@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >> Get yourself an abacus, Sasha. >> >> sasha gottfried wrote: >>> The blame game can go on and on. The arrogance, and lack of communication >>> between these mega-bux, computer comrades is criminal. Who expects John Q >>> Customer to know what the hell "Sysrep Scenarios" are anyway! >>> >>> Pathetic! >>> >>> But thanks to this newsgroup for the heads up on these corporate clowns. >>> >>> MT >>> >>> >>> >>> "MowGreen [MVP]" <mowgreen@nowandzen.com> wrote in message >>> news:OFCUI$PwIHA.548@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>> I agree that the customer loses, sasha. BUT, HP has been well aware of >>>> Unsupported Sysprep Scenarios for quite some time now: >>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/828287 >>>> >>>> Read the ' Different processor vendors ' section. >>>> There is definitely something amiss with how MS tests updates|SPs and >>>> with >>>> their lack of communication skills. >>>> >>>> However, this issue is directly attributable to HP, plain and simple. >>>> >>>> MowGreen [MVP 2003-2008] >>>> =============== >>>> *-343-* FDNY >>>> Never Forgotten >>>> =============== >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> sasha gottfried wrote: >>>> >>>>> Don't tell me Microsoft wasn't aware of this! Or was it just a set-up >>>>> to >>>>> blame the OEM's? Either way.......the customer loses! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Shenan Stanley" <newshelper@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:%23tNEvWPwIHA.2188@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>> >>>>>> sasha gottfried wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Doesn't Microsoft confer with major computer manufacturers before >>>>>>> putting out a major OS upgrade? As you say, HP manufactures many >>>>>>> AMD based computers. Are you telling me Microsoft isn't aware of >>>>>>> this, or doesn't bother testing their SP3 on such systems using >>>>>>> this 'image' applied? You'd think that between HP and Microsoft >>>>>>> they would 'expose' the mistake before allowing it to be foisted on >>>>>>> customers. But hell, our time is not THEIR money, is it? >>>>>> The OEMs pay less to Microsoft for the licenses of Windows XP (OEM >>>>>> License agreements) so they can make more profit selling to the >>>>>> end-consumer and for that they provide the end-consumer support for >>>>>> the >>>>>> machine - including the installed OS. That is a choice they made. >>>>>> >>>>>> Given that choice and the fact that SP3 has been available in some >>>>>> form >>>>>> (beta and otherwise) to the OEMs for over a year - they should have >>>>>> taken >>>>>> the responsibility and tested it. Not to mention - any OEM that >>>>>> decided >>>>>> an AMD processor was the same as an Intel processor (thus making one >>>>>> image) likely should have thought that out better. I am having >>>>>> trouble >>>>>> seeing it from your point of view that Microsoft (SP3) is to blame >>>>>> when >>>>>> it was not Microsoft that made the image being used by said OEMs nor >>>>>> were >>>>>> they the ones responsible for testing things on the OEMs own >>>>>> equipment. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Shenan Stanley >>>>>> MS-MVP >>>>>> -- >>>>>> How To Ask Questions The Smart Way >>>>>> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html > >
Guest Shenan Stanley Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 Alias wrote: > You'll never convince the MS fanboys that MS *ever* makes a mistake. > They're acting like HP is some small mom and pop outfit that MS has > never heard of. The TRUTH is that MS throws out software for the > paying customer to test and then, and only then, they will put out > a fix. For instance, Vista was NOT ready for the public and won't > be until there's an SP2. Meanwhile, MS gets millions to test it for > free and to top it off, they PAY MS to test it. > > You're right it's criminal. > > Fed up? Check out Ubuntu at http://www.ubuntu.com/. It's free and comes > with access to over 23,000 free programs. > > What can be done with Ubuntu? <snip> Or switch to a Macintosh. Any flavor of Linux you want (that's all Ubuntu is). Run whatever. Doesn't really matter. Did Microsoft screw up in this case - I don't see it - all they could do in this case is hope for due-diligence from the OEMs that had the betas of the service packs, etc. Has Microsoft screwed up in the past? Yep. Will they screw up in the future? Likely. As for Vista being 'ready' - some would disagree with it not being ready now - some would say it won't ever be ready. *shrug* I personally could care less. I run Vista Ultimate SP1 on one virtual machine and one physical machine. I run Windows XP SP3 on 7 personal/work machines that i use almost daily. I run Ubuntu on one physical and two virtual machines. I run Redhat on one physical machine and SUSE on a virtual machine. I also have a Macintosh with OS X on it (that's where two of the VMs are. Each their own - all have their advantages and disadvantages. A Windows OS wins for general daily use and interaction with others because it is out there in larger numbers so being able to get what you want while using a Windows machine is usually less of a chore. As for updates and such - I have yet to see an OS that is in use not have them. Everyone has their own opinion - I say the OEM dropped the ball on this one. -- Shenan Stanley MS-MVP -- How To Ask Questions The Smart Way http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Guest Alias Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 Shenan Stanley wrote: > Alias wrote: >> You'll never convince the MS fanboys that MS *ever* makes a mistake. >> They're acting like HP is some small mom and pop outfit that MS has >> never heard of. The TRUTH is that MS throws out software for the >> paying customer to test and then, and only then, they will put out >> a fix. For instance, Vista was NOT ready for the public and won't >> be until there's an SP2. Meanwhile, MS gets millions to test it for >> free and to top it off, they PAY MS to test it. >> >> You're right it's criminal. >> >> Fed up? Check out Ubuntu at http://www.ubuntu.com/. It's free and comes >> with access to over 23,000 free programs. >> >> What can be done with Ubuntu? > <snip> > > Or switch to a Macintosh. Any flavor of Linux you want (that's all Ubuntu > is). Run whatever. Doesn't really matter. > > Did Microsoft screw up in this case - I don't see it - all they could do in > this case is hope for due-diligence from the OEMs that had the betas of the > service packs, etc. > > Has Microsoft screwed up in the past? Yep. Will they screw up in the > future? Likely. > > As for Vista being 'ready' - some would disagree with it not being ready > now - some would say it won't ever be ready. *shrug* I personally could > care less. > > I run Vista Ultimate SP1 on one virtual machine and one physical machine. I > run Windows XP SP3 on 7 personal/work machines that i use almost daily. I > run Ubuntu on one physical and two virtual machines. I run Redhat on one > physical machine and SUSE on a virtual machine. I also have a Macintosh > with OS X on it (that's where two of the VMs are. > > Each their own - all have their advantages and disadvantages. A Windows OS > wins for general daily use and interaction with others because it is out > there in larger numbers so being able to get what you want while using a > Windows machine is usually less of a chore. As for updates and such - I > have yet to see an OS that is in use not have them. > > Everyone has their own opinion - I say the OEM dropped the ball on this one. > I'd say both MS and HP dropped the ball. MS has heard of HP, right? They know that HP is selling *their* operating system, right? Fact is that MS releases software to be tested by paying customers who don't even know they're testing it and that ain't right. Alias
Guest Shenan Stanley Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 <snipped> Alias wrote: > I'd say both MS and HP dropped the ball. MS has heard of HP, right? > They know that HP is selling *their* operating system, right? Fact > is that MS releases software to be tested by paying customers who > don't even know they're testing it and that ain't right. HP has had access to SP3 for a LONG time. Longer than most consumers (and they could have gotten BETAs anytime.) However - the fact is this is not about SP3 - it isn't even about any patch that would have done the same thing... HP chose how they put the OS on their systems that they sell. They did not use RIS, they did not use some unattended installation - they chose to make an image (a single image) on one particular hardware set (Intel based obviously) and apply it to all of their machines for some period of time. Microsoft does not (and should not) have any say in how HP puts the OS on the machine (what method is used to install it...) So - HP - given this freedom chose as I pointed out and - in the end - it bit them. It's all about how the OS was installed. If the OS was installed from CD/DVD through the normal means or through some unattended network process (RIS, WDS, etc) or even if HP had made an image for AMD systems and Intel systems seperately - this conversation (using HP sepecifically) would not be happening. They (obviously) did none of those things (at least for a time) and made one image on an Intel based system (which they can do if they want) and in the end - that messed them up. Microsoft may know HP, may know them VERY well - but Microsoft does not dictate something like how HP puts the OS onto a computer they manufacturer/sell/support. -) -- Shenan Stanley MS-MVP -- How To Ask Questions The Smart Way http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Guest sasha gottfried Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 "Microsoft may know HP, may know them VERY well - but Microsoft does not dictate something like how HP puts the OS onto a computer they manufacturer/sell/support." Somebody should be 'dictating' something to these clowns. Obviously neither HP nor Microsoft gives a damn about what customers have to go through when an update wreaks havoc! 3 weeks after the SP3 update, HP finally puts an update alert out on my computer. Duh......couldn't Microsoft have tested SP3 on the HP/AMD computers in question and alerted HP? Couldn't HP have tested the update way before the release, considering they had access to it for months? Who are you protecting? I'd say a lawsuit might be the best update consumers can come up with! Take them both to court! MT "Shenan Stanley" <newshelper@gmail.com> wrote in message news:OsTiYUbwIHA.1772@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > <snipped> > > Alias wrote: >> I'd say both MS and HP dropped the ball. MS has heard of HP, right? >> They know that HP is selling *their* operating system, right? Fact >> is that MS releases software to be tested by paying customers who >> don't even know they're testing it and that ain't right. > > HP has had access to SP3 for a LONG time. Longer than most consumers (and > they could have gotten BETAs anytime.) > > However - the fact is this is not about SP3 - it isn't even about any > patch that would have done the same thing... > > HP chose how they put the OS on their systems that they sell. They did > not use RIS, they did not use some unattended installation - they chose to > make an image (a single image) on one particular hardware set (Intel based > obviously) and apply it to all of their machines for some period of time. > Microsoft does not (and should not) have any say in how HP puts the OS on > the machine (what method is used to install it...) So - HP - given this > freedom chose as I pointed out and - in the end - it bit them. > > It's all about how the OS was installed. If the OS was installed from > CD/DVD through the normal means or through some unattended network process > (RIS, WDS, etc) or even if HP had made an image for AMD systems and Intel > systems seperately - this conversation (using HP sepecifically) would not > be happening. They (obviously) did none of those things (at least for a > time) and made one image on an Intel based system (which they can do if > they want) and in the end - that messed them up. > > Microsoft may know HP, may know them VERY well - but Microsoft does not > dictate something like how HP puts the OS onto a computer they > manufacturer/sell/support. -) > > -- > Shenan Stanley > MS-MVP > -- > How To Ask Questions The Smart Way > http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html >
Guest ::- Alias- :: Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 Shenan Stanley wrote: > <snipped> > > Alias wrote: >> I'd say both MS and HP dropped the ball. MS has heard of HP, right? >> They know that HP is selling *their* operating system, right? Fact >> is that MS releases software to be tested by paying customers who >> don't even know they're testing it and that ain't right. > > HP has had access to SP3 for a LONG time. Longer than most consumers (and > they could have gotten BETAs anytime.) > > However - the fact is this is not about SP3 - it isn't even about any patch > that would have done the same thing... > > HP chose how they put the OS on their systems that they sell. They did not > use RIS, they did not use some unattended installation - they chose to make > an image (a single image) on one particular hardware set (Intel based > obviously) and apply it to all of their machines for some period of time. > Microsoft does not (and should not) have any say in how HP puts the OS on > the machine (what method is used to install it...) So - HP - given this > freedom chose as I pointed out and - in the end - it bit them. > > It's all about how the OS was installed. If the OS was installed from > CD/DVD through the normal means or through some unattended network process > (RIS, WDS, etc) or even if HP had made an image for AMD systems and Intel > systems seperately - this conversation (using HP sepecifically) would not be > happening. They (obviously) did none of those things (at least for a time) > and made one image on an Intel based system (which they can do if they want) > and in the end - that messed them up. > > Microsoft may know HP, may know them VERY well - but Microsoft does not > dictate something like how HP puts the OS onto a computer they > manufacturer/sell/support. -) > Wow, so MS doesn't have one single HP machine to test on? Just shove it out the door and see what happens, eh? Alias
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