KB890830 Malicious Software Removal Tool keeps wanting to install

[Guest Bruce.]

My Windows XP Home SP2 system is stuck in an update loop. All but one of

the updates yesterday installed ok.

 

Now the yellow shield in the taskbar tray keeps appearing and wanting to

install an update, the same update. When I run the install, it installs

KB890830 Malicious Software Removal Tool. No errors are reported and it

says "Done!" at the end. The yellow shield disappears for about 1 minute,

pops back up again, and the process repeats over and over again. I've

installed it about a dozen times but the shield keeps popping up.

 

I've rebooted - no help. The shield just won't go away and stay away.

 

How can I diagnose what's going wrong and get the KB890830 installed for

good?

 

Thanks for any help.

Bruce.

[Guest HEMI-Powered]

Bruce. added these comments in the current discussion du jour

....

> My Windows XP Home SP2 system is stuck in an update loop. All

> but one of the updates yesterday installed ok.

>

> Now the yellow shield in the taskbar tray keeps appearing and

> wanting to install an update, the same update. When I run the

> install, it installs KB890830 Malicious Software Removal Tool.

> No errors are reported and it says "Done!" at the end. The

> yellow shield disappears for about 1 minute, pops back up

> again, and the process repeats over and over again. I've

> installed it about a dozen times but the shield keeps popping

> up.

>

> I've rebooted - no help. The shield just won't go away and

> stay away.

>

> How can I diagnose what's going wrong and get the KB890830

> installed for good?

>

Bruce, again, there's always a call to MS, but I wouldn't for this

one. What I think I'd do is uncheck the update, click Close, then

check the box that says "do not remind me again for this update"

and just forget this month's version of the malicious software

tool. It ain't worth didly anyway, IMO compared to dedicated

malware scanners, and another one will be along in a month.

 

--

HP, aka Jerry

[Guest Bruce.]

"HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message

news:Xns998D70CB34523ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30...

> Bruce, again, there's always a call to MS, but I wouldn't for this

> one. What I think I'd do is uncheck the update, click Close, then

> check the box that says "do not remind me again for this update"

> and just forget this month's version of the malicious software

> tool. It ain't worth didly anyway, IMO compared to dedicated

> malware scanners, and another one will be along in a month.

 

Thanks Jerry, but when it comes to malicious software, I don't regard this

as an optional update even if it not very good, so I'm much rather figure

this one out and fix it.

 

Does anyone else have an idea of how to diagnose this repeating update?

 

Bruce.

[Guest HEMI-Powered]

Bruce. added these comments in the current discussion du jour

....

>> Bruce, again, there's always a call to MS, but I wouldn't for

>> this one. What I think I'd do is uncheck the update, click

>> Close, then check the box that says "do not remind me again

>> for this update" and just forget this month's version of the

>> malicious software tool. It ain't worth didly anyway, IMO

>> compared to dedicated malware scanners, and another one will

>> be along in a month.

>

> Thanks Jerry, but when it comes to malicious software, I don't

> regard this as an optional update even if it not very good, so

> I'm much rather figure this one out and fix it.

>

> Does anyone else have an idea of how to diagnose this

> repeating update?

>

Bruce, I'm certainly not going to bug you or anybody about this,

but for me and others to understand better your total picture,

and also help ourselves, what kinds of AV and other malware

protection/scanners do you have? I have Norton System Works 2006,

and thus NAV 2006. Yes, I know Symantec's bad rep, but it works

for me. I also have the commercial Zone Alarm running as well as

eTrust's Pest Patrol. Plus, I am sitting behind a NAT-capable

router so my contantly on cable modem has at least a little

protection. I'm sure you also have Ad-Aware and Spybot Search &

Destroy as well as a good Registry tool such as JV16 Powertools.

 

IMO, SP2's erstatz firewall is totally useless, hence "ersatz."

When last I looked at trying to configure the SP2 firewall, I

discovered that I had to MANUALLY enter all the ports I wanted it

to monitor! Is that right, folks? I was frankly surprised and

disappointed that MS for all it's hype about SP2's increased

security didn't at least provide a pull-down list for all the

ports, with those that are most vulnerable easily identified.

And, please forgive a bit of emotion here. I don't think that MS

writes particularly innovative software of any kind I have

experience with. Useful, full featured, and competent, yes, just

not IMO innovative or state-of-the-art/world-class.

 

It is this feeling that makes me somewhat jaded about the

importance of the malicious software tool. Again, I fully

understand why you want to solve it. If I were you, I would want

to solve it also. Each of us have different backgrounds, levels

of technical expertise, and diffent experiences, so I seldom

dispute people unless I KNOW from personal experience that

trouble may crop up. Easy example: I always preface any OP

requesting info on a (almost always) free Registry cleaner to be

very, very cautious.

 

Speaking of my (over?) cautious nature, I ALWAYS set my own RP

before I allow ANY of these things to update. MS usually sets one

but not always. The others never do.

 

I DO allow MS's tool to work, so I'm not bashing them. I just

rely on the others far, far more. e.g., I do a comprehensive scan

on both my PCs that are networked together for the full suite of

bad guys, plus Pest Patrol and Zone Alarm, as well as NAV, are

presumably protecting me silently. Hmmm. I think I'm a couple of

weeks past my monthly schedule, better get cracking, huh?

 

You are wise to take all types of malware seriously, so I hope

you find a solution that works for you. And, again, have a great

day!

 

--

HP, aka Jerry

[Guest sirwilliam]

Did you go to safe mode and restore to point prior to update! The try to

disable your firewall for updates.

 

"Bruce." wrote:

> My Windows XP Home SP2 system is stuck in an update loop. All but one of

> the updates yesterday installed ok.

>

> Now the yellow shield in the taskbar tray keeps appearing and wanting to

> install an update, the same update. When I run the install, it installs

> KB890830 Malicious Software Removal Tool. No errors are reported and it

> says "Done!" at the end. The yellow shield disappears for about 1 minute,

> pops back up again, and the process repeats over and over again. I've

> installed it about a dozen times but the shield keeps popping up.

>

> I've rebooted - no help. The shield just won't go away and stay away.

>

> How can I diagnose what's going wrong and get the KB890830 installed for

> good?

>

> Thanks for any help.

> Bruce.

>

>

>

[Guest Bruce.]

"HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message

news:Xns998D7C660C542ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30...

> Bruce, I'm certainly not going to bug you or anybody about this,

> but for me and others to understand better your total picture,

> and also help ourselves, what kinds of AV and other malware

> protection/scanners do you have?

 

I have Trend Micro Internet Security 2007. I've tried disabling it but the

KB890830 update still refuses to install correctly. It reports "done!" but

the yellow shield quickly pops up again and loops forever on this update.

 

As I said, every other update released yesterday installed perfectly.

KB890830 is the only one that won't stick.

 

Bruce.

[Guest Bruce.]

"Bruce." <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message

news:%23n6pKw03HHA.4676@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> How can I diagnose what's going wrong and get the KB890830 installed for

> good?

 

FYI, I went to this link and manually downloaded and intalled KB890830.

That appears to have fixed the install loop.

 

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=AD724AE0-E72D-4F54-9AB3-75B8EB148356&ampdisplaylang=en&displaylang=en

 

Bruce.

[Guest HEMI-Powered]

Bruce. added these comments in the current discussion du jour

....

>> Bruce, I'm certainly not going to bug you or anybody about

>> this, but for me and others to understand better your total

>> picture, and also help ourselves, what kinds of AV and other

>> malware protection/scanners do you have?

>

> I have Trend Micro Internet Security 2007. I've tried

> disabling it but the KB890830 update still refuses to install

> correctly. It reports "done!" but the yellow shield quickly

> pops up again and loops forever on this update.

>

> As I said, every other update released yesterday installed

> perfectly. KB890830 is the only one that won't stick.

>

OK, Bruce, thanks for the update. Good luck in finding the root

cause of your problem. As I said yesterday, I am not an MS-

basher, and DO use the malicious software removal utility, but

hardly as my main protection. Seems you do also. I've not had

your problem nor really any update that wouldn't stick or

wouldn't install at all, so maybe I've been lucky. There's an old

saying that goes like "if you're lucky, you don't have to be

smart but if you're smart you don't have to be lucky." Some truth

to that, I suppose, but I've found that you really need both.

When it comes to the ever increasing complexities of O/S's and

even apps and HW, the chances of getting some kind of difficult

to diagnose problem increases.

 

Just asking, not badgering. But, since you've had so much trouble

with this particular KB update, and you've got very good

protection that is likely far more effective, wouldn't it reduce

your frustration level at least to let it pass this month and see

if it corrects itself with the next release? I say this NOT to

piss you off but if you're at all like me, I have a very low

tolerance for PC-related frustration caused by errant software or

updates, so I try to be both prudent/safe and lowest risk.

Obviously, each of us needs to live their own lives and I will

again wish you good luck and have a great week!

 

As for me, I had no PC trouble but did make it to Woodward

yesterday to take some car pictures during the day and my wife

and I had another great 2 hours of cruising the Woodward Dream

Cruise last night. We MAY get in one more night of cruising after

dinner before the 4-lane road turns into a 4-lane parking lot in

both directions. In prior years, that has occured on Thursday

night, Friday during the day, and Saturday for the real cruise is

just a nightmare to drive. But, I'd much prefer to indulge my

love of cars and suffer some inconvience and frustration in

traffic than the same on an overgrown adding machine that won't

work! <grin>

 

--

HP, aka Jerry

[Guest Bruce.]

"HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message

news:Xns998E4EA3A23D8ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30...

> wouldn't it reduce

> your frustration level at least to let it pass this month and see

> if it corrects itself with the next release?

 

Nothing frustrates be more than an unresolved problem. :-)

 

As you probably saw in my other post, for whatever reason, manually

downloading the fix and installing took care of the problem. I should be

set ... at least until next month. :-)

 

Thanks for your suggestions.

 

Bruce.

[Guest HEMI-Powered]

Bruce. added these comments in the current discussion du jour

....

> "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message

> news:Xns998E4EA3A23D8ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30...

>> wouldn't it reduce

>> your frustration level at least to let it pass this month and

>> see if it corrects itself with the next release?

>

> Nothing frustrates be more than an unresolved problem. :-)

 

I'm with you, Bruce! But, to the extent I can - which often is

never - I also apply both the 80/20 Rule and the Law of

Diminishing Returns, both of which are good mathematically-

related reasons to only go so far on a problem that is not at all

crucial.

 

I had a REAL problem with XP crashing with a BSOD whenever I

tried to access a CD that was burned with UDF rather than Joliet.

Took six months to solve it. THAT was critical, as I was forced

to use my older PC to get content from the useless optical.

 

But, since I personally view MS's utility as a useful adjunct to

other ways I protect myself from "malicious software", NOT the

primary way, means that if it somehow can't or won't install, I

don't get frustrated about that. I can and do fall back on the

extensive protections I described to you earlier. But, just

because that is MY philosophy hardly means it is or should be

yours, nor does it mean that I try to jam my ideas down your

throat, I just explain my rationale to you (and any lurkers) and

let people reach their own conclusions.

>

> As you probably saw in my other post, for whatever reason,

> manually downloading the fix and installing took care of the

> problem. I should be set ... at least until next month. :-)

>

> Thanks for your suggestions.

>

NO problem. There's often more than one way to skin the cat, and

many people who have the normal automatic update function fail do

succeed by going to the update center and getting it manually.

 

BTW, Bruce, just for the record, what is YOUR view of the

robustness and effectiveness of MS's tool vs. the specialized

commercial products? I've already cited mine, I'd be interested

in yours or others, other than "I want all the MS updates no

matter how much work it takes." Thanks.

 

--

HP, aka Jerry

[Guest Bruce.]

"HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message

news:Xns998F516D18F33ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30...

> I had a REAL problem with XP crashing with a BSOD whenever I

> tried to access a CD that was burned with UDF rather than Joliet.

> Took six months to solve it. THAT was critical, as I was forced

> to use my older PC to get content from the useless optical.

 

I still have an unresolved BSOD on my wife's computer. I've invested

countless hours in but never solved it. Whenever a USB mass storage devices

is disconnected, her XP Home system BSOD. That includes her CompactFlash

card read, her digital camera, and her MP3 player. However, non-mass

storage devices like her USB scanner don't cause a BSOD.

 

I've tried everything I can think of and have posted in the relavant

newsgroups but no one has been able to help me pin down what software is

causing it. So my wife's PC remains crippled because this. It started over

a year ago.

> BTW, Bruce, just for the record, what is YOUR view of the

> robustness and effectiveness of MS's tool vs. the specialized

> commercial products? I've already cited mine, I'd be interested

> in yours or others, other than "I want all the MS updates no

> matter how much work it takes." Thanks.

 

I'm afraid I don't have much of an opinion on the MS removal tool. I'm sure

it does something good, and it's free, so why not keep it up to date? MS is

probably in the best position to know what critical XP bugs and exploits

need protecting against. I doubt it's as good as a full blown antivirus

program, but it's free and doesn't seem to have side effects.

 

Bruce.

[Guest HEMI-Powered]

Bruce. added these comments in the current discussion du jour

....

>> I had a REAL problem with XP crashing with a BSOD whenever I

>> tried to access a CD that was burned with UDF rather than

>> Joliet. Took six months to solve it. THAT was critical, as I

>> was forced to use my older PC to get content from the useless

>> optical.

>

> I still have an unresolved BSOD on my wife's computer. I've

> invested countless hours in but never solved it. Whenever a

> USB mass storage devices is disconnected, her XP Home system

> BSOD. That includes her CompactFlash card read, her digital

> camera, and her MP3 player. However, non-mass storage devices

> like her USB scanner don't cause a BSOD.

 

Those problems not only frustrate me into a blind rage, they

majorly piss me off because I cannot get anyone to even

acknowledge it, much less help. I tried to get MS's help on mine,

the UDF one, and they refunded my fee because they failed.

 

On yours, do you use the Safely Remove Hardware function sitting

in your systray first before attempting to disconnect? I imagine

you do, but I thought I'd start with the easy one. Then, are you

plugging into an actual USB port on your mobo or an extender, and

if an extender, is it powered or not? Finally, have you tried

completely eradicating everything in Windows that has to do with

USB and the specific devices you try to attach and let it re-

recognize the new devices? Again, I imagine you have, I'm just

trying some food-for-thought ideas like my nephew did when he

asked me one day if I'd looked for an older driver.

 

Also, if you haven't already, go into your BIOS set-up and tell

it to NOT complete a restart upon a failure. That will keep the

BSOD stationary until you can read what it says and get the error

code number(s). Again, I'll bet you've already done that. I

listed all these ideas in the hopes that you can find a seed of

wisdom in there that might fuel a successful Google search, MS KB

search, or even give you a chance in this or other Windows

support NG. In any case, good luck!

> I've tried everything I can think of and have posted in the

> relavant newsgroups but no one has been able to help me pin

> down what software is causing it. So my wife's PC remains

> crippled because this. It started over a year ago.

 

I never got anything at all on my USB problem in NGs, either,

even though I'd posted all of what I listed above as detailed

proof and what Event Manager said was going on in my system just

before the crash. Which reminds me, what does your Event Manager

say caused the problem?

 

Just thought of one more: do you have ANY USB devices, say a

printer, that you CAN disconnect hot without a crash? Maybe

that'll give you a new clue.

>> BTW, Bruce, just for the record, what is YOUR view of the

>> robustness and effectiveness of MS's tool vs. the specialized

>> commercial products? I've already cited mine, I'd be

>> interested in yours or others, other than "I want all the MS

>> updates no matter how much work it takes." Thanks.

>

> I'm afraid I don't have much of an opinion on the MS removal

> tool. I'm sure it does something good, and it's free, so why

> not keep it up to date? MS is probably in the best position

> to know what critical XP bugs and exploits need protecting

> against. I doubt it's as good as a full blown antivirus

> program, but it's free and doesn't seem to have side effects.

>

I agree fully with your analysis, Bruce. I use MS products that I

think may help me, if only 1%. Here, though, knowing MS's simply

attrocious record on even recognizing security vulnerabilities,

much less fixing them, I don't have nearly as much confidence in

them as maybe you do. I doubt that those people, as well-meaning

and professional as they may be, would recognize and honest to

God hit if it smacked their PC. As to whether MS is or is not the

best to judge their own problems, quite true. But, there's a

marketing side to the malicious software removal tool, in me

view: they began a major marketing blitz for XP SP2 by trying to

scare the bejeebers out of people in an attempt to get them to

upgrade, or for earlier version users to buy XP SP2. And, it

worked. So, without hitting you personally, what makes you think

that this time is any different.

 

The reason I asked you that question was to see if it has EVER

caught a bad guy. Mine never has, but my other utilities that I

outlined verbosely yesterday, find and report them all the time.

Zone Alarm, as you probably know, can be annoying because it

seems not to remember when I tell it to allow future behavior of

the same type, but I'd rather click OK than to not know. And,

when I do scans with Ad-Aware and Spybot, they ALWAYS find

something, although fortunately, nothing "malicious".

 

I didn't mention it sooner because I don't want to ignite another

controversy, but during one of my periodic preparations to

backing up my PC (which I am overdue on!) is to run a JV16

Powertools Registry cleaning scan in "agressive" mode. I fully

understand the risks of putzing with the Registry and take the

usual precautions, but I usually find hundreds and hundreds of

benign-but-useless entries and simply delete them. But, what I'm

really looking for is a key that smacks of malicious software.

I'm obviously techie enough that a bad guy would disguise it, but

I know what is on my system and can recognize something strange.

It was JV16's comprehensive Register Find feature that pinpointed

the UDF drivers for me that were scatter in a couple of obscure

places on my C:\

 

So, 1) good luck in fixing your USB problem soon, 2) try to take

it easy on the malicious software thingy if you can, but most

importantly, 3) have an absolutely great day! I've got one more

chance to cruise on Woodward this afternoon, so Adios, PC!

 

--

HP, aka Jerry

[Guest Bruce.]

"HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message

news:Xns998F7FED5F430ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30...

> On yours, do you use the Safely Remove Hardware function sitting

> in your systray first before attempting to disconnect?

 

Yes, however if I do, it immediately triggers the BSOD even before I

disconnect the device.

> Then, are you

> plugging into an actual USB port on your mobo or an extender, and

> if an extender, is it powered or not?

 

It doesn't matter. Unplugging from the motherboard or a powered USB hub

does the same thing, BSOD. I bought a new powered hub hoping that would

help. Nope.

> Finally, have you tried

> completely eradicating everything in Windows that has to do with

> USB and the specific devices you try to attach and let it re-

> recognize the new devices?

 

Yes. I even went out and bought a new 4 port 2.0 PCI USB card and it does

the same thing too. If any USB mass storage device is disconnected, BSOD

every time regardless of what port it's hooked to.

> Also, if you haven't already, go into your BIOS set-up and tell

> it to NOT complete a restart upon a failure.

 

Done. I even took pictures of the BSOD death screens. Nothing in the dump

gives any indication of where it might be crashing. I mean no driver names

or anything like that.

> In any case, good luck!

 

Thanks. I've mostly given up as I ran out of ideas to try long ago.

 

Bruce.

[Guest HEMI-Powered]

Bruce. added these comments in the current discussion du jour

....

 

Groan! Seems like you've done all the things I might have, and

more. Sorry, but I am also out-of-ideas. Might this be a time to

call MS and pay for a tech support call? The fee is probably

higher than the $35 I paid last time a few years back, but

they'll refund the money if they cannot resolve the problem. That

happened to me once. I took advantage of their policy that you

could call as many times as needed on the same problem number,

but after their try #3, THEY gave up and refunded my money.

 

Sometimes throwing some money at a problem solves it, presuming

you have the money, of course. One other thing it does is stop

the frustration and pissed-off-ness one feels with such an

annoying problem. I could suggest shutting down the PC before

unplugging, but restarting via a BSOD is essentially the same

thing.

 

Sorry you've had to give up. Maybe lightning will strike one day

as it it did with my 6+ month struggle to figure out why XP Pro

SP1 could read UDF optical discs but SP2 immediately went to

BSOD. And, like you, both the screen info and Event Manager

provided no clues. Worse, it was pointing to an MS driver failing

(!) when it turned out that it was one of 5 that Roxio 5 put on

that actually caused the failure. Once I found the root cause, I

deleted everything that had any variant of "udf" in it's file

name and did an exhaustive search of the Registry for that plus

anything that said "roxio". Installing Roxio 8 put the correct XP

SP2 compatible UDF driver(s) in place and the problem instantly

went away. A classic example of even a couple of experienced

people, myself and my nephew, working on and off on it for

months.

 

Well, have a great weekend. The Woodward Dream Cruise official

cruise is today, but is impossible. I went last night and made

only one fairly short loop, 11.2 miles in 2 hours 15 minutes.

But, what a blast! And, a pleasant break from computers.

>> On yours, do you use the Safely Remove Hardware function

>> sitting in your systray first before attempting to

>> disconnect?

>

> Yes, however if I do, it immediately triggers the BSOD even

> before I disconnect the device.

>

>> Then, are you

>> plugging into an actual USB port on your mobo or an extender,

>> and if an extender, is it powered or not?

>

> It doesn't matter. Unplugging from the motherboard or a

> powered USB hub does the same thing, BSOD. I bought a new

> powered hub hoping that would help. Nope.

>

>> Finally, have you tried

>> completely eradicating everything in Windows that has to do

>> with USB and the specific devices you try to attach and let

>> it re- recognize the new devices?

>

> Yes. I even went out and bought a new 4 port 2.0 PCI USB card

> and it does the same thing too. If any USB mass storage

> device is disconnected, BSOD every time regardless of what

> port it's hooked to.

>

>> Also, if you haven't already, go into your BIOS set-up and

>> tell it to NOT complete a restart upon a failure.

>

> Done. I even took pictures of the BSOD death screens.

> Nothing in the dump gives any indication of where it might be

> crashing. I mean no driver names or anything like that.

>

>> In any case, good luck!

>

> Thanks. I've mostly given up as I ran out of ideas to try

> long ago.

>

> Bruce.

>

>

>

 

 

 

--

HP, aka Jerry