Guest Edward Ripley-Duggan Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 I had posted yesterday about some major issues with the current batch of updates. I have identified the update that is crashing my machine, running XP Pro. It is update KB921503. When run, it prevents processes from opening, including my security (NOD32), the Genuine Windows Advantage" module (for which it creates an error message for Microsoft), as well as routine e-mail and browser access. I have been able to repair the system using rollback from Safe Mode. I'm sure that this doesn't afflict all machines (it didn't, I think, cause any issues on a notebook of one family member), but it gave me a rather bad time initially, since it prevents rollback (and, indeed, any other operation) from within XP proper. The fact that rollback works in Safe Mode may indicate that the issue is a conflict with, for example, my security software. However, it shouldn't happen, IMO. I post this to alert other users who may be impacted (and to give them an idea how to fix the system), and to give MS a "heads-up." Ted. Ted.
Guest MowGreen [MVP] Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 Sorry, Ted, XP Pro SP2 w/NOD32 is installed here and there wasn't any of the behavior that you describe. Please tell us what " rollback from Safe Mode " is ... System Restore ? And, what other 'security software' is installed ? MowGreen [MVP 2003-2007] =============== *-343-* FDNY Never Forgotten =============== Edward Ripley-Duggan wrote: > I had posted yesterday about some major issues with the current batch of > updates. I have identified the update that is crashing my machine, running XP > Pro. It is update KB921503. When run, it prevents processes from opening, > including my security (NOD32), the Genuine Windows Advantage" module (for > which it creates an error message for Microsoft), as well as routine e-mail > and browser access. I have been able to repair the system using rollback from > Safe Mode. > > I'm sure that this doesn't afflict all machines (it didn't, I think, cause > any issues on a notebook of one family member), but it gave me a rather bad > time initially, since it prevents rollback (and, indeed, any other operation) > from within XP proper. The fact that rollback works in Safe Mode may > indicate that the issue is a conflict with, for example, my security > software. However, it shouldn't happen, IMO. > > I post this to alert other users who may be impacted (and to give them an > idea how to fix the system), and to give MS a "heads-up." > > Ted. > > Ted.
Guest Edward Ripley-Duggan Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 I rolled the system back to a previous state with system restore--precisely. Sorry, I thought my meaning was fairly obvious. MS itself uses the term "roll back." I use ZoneAlarm for my firewall also Regrun (which I've had on all my systems for the past ten years) and ProcessGuard. However, the problem appears with these programs off (although, with ZoneAlarm at least, I'm not sure it is ever totally off once installed). At least one other user on this list over the past 24 hours has described what sounds like identical (mis)behavior, with a transient (and unfortunately unreadable) error message. This is clearly not a problem that effects all machines, but for those that experience it, the results are initially catastrophic and disconcerting. So far as I can tell, only if system restore is used in safe mode by rolling back to a pre-update state is the system readily fixable, though selective deinstallation of the updates might also do the job (may also need safe mode). If you were unaffected, consider yourself fortunate. Software and hardware configurations differ hugely, and the fact that you did not have problems does not mean that some significant subset of users did not. Unfortunately, the nature of patching with updates more or less guarantees this will be the case. Not a criticism of MS, just an observation. "MowGreen [MVP]" wrote: > Sorry, Ted, XP Pro SP2 w/NOD32 is installed here and there wasn't any of > the behavior that you describe. > Please tell us what " rollback from Safe Mode " is ... System Restore ? > And, what other 'security software' is installed ? > > MowGreen [MVP 2003-2007] > =============== > *-343-* FDNY > Never Forgotten > =============== > > > Edward Ripley-Duggan wrote: > > > I had posted yesterday about some major issues with the current batch of > > updates. I have identified the update that is crashing my machine, running XP > > Pro. It is update KB921503. When run, it prevents processes from opening, > > including my security (NOD32), the Genuine Windows Advantage" module (for > > which it creates an error message for Microsoft), as well as routine e-mail > > and browser access. I have been able to repair the system using rollback from > > Safe Mode. > > > > I'm sure that this doesn't afflict all machines (it didn't, I think, cause > > any issues on a notebook of one family member), but it gave me a rather bad > > time initially, since it prevents rollback (and, indeed, any other operation) > > from within XP proper. The fact that rollback works in Safe Mode may > > indicate that the issue is a conflict with, for example, my security > > software. However, it shouldn't happen, IMO. > > > > I post this to alert other users who may be impacted (and to give them an > > idea how to fix the system), and to give MS a "heads-up." > > > > Ted. > > > > Ted. >
Guest Ottmar Freudenberger Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 "Edward Ripley-Duggan" <EdwardRipleyDuggan@discussions.microsoft.com> schrieb: > I use ZoneAlarm for my firewall Would you mind uninstalling that one at least for testing and enable Windows Firewall instead? > also Regrun The whole suite? <showder> Anyhow, it seems like the one from http://www.greatis.com/ may be build with VisualBasic 6. Now have a look into the MSKB article for KB921503: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/921503 an the Known Issues section which also links to http://support.microsoft.com/kb/924053 > At least one other user on this list over the past 24 hours has described > what sounds like identical (mis)behavior, with a transient (and unfortunately > unreadable) error message. This is clearly not a problem that effects all > machines, The/a problem with KB921503 which affects changes the OLE Automation is effecting relative only a few systems whith individual configurations/ applications running to be precise. Bye, Freudi
Guest Vince Edgar Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 KB921503 causes MY system to crash, too I'm running XP Pro SP2 Media Center Edition. Forewarned by you, I installed all the other recent critical updates before this one, with several system restore points. All seem OK except KB921503. After rebooting with this change, my system tray which normally has ten icons was EMPTY except for a rudimentary McAfee VirusScan (which comes on before Startup pgms): NO McAfee Security Center, ZA firewall, MS volume control or anything else. My Start menu could not be accessed nor any desktop programs opened. This is a serious problem, for certain. Like you, I had to boot in Safe Mode and restore to just before the KB921503 installation. I'm not going to waste one of my two free support calls to MS on this. Their sites seem blissfully unaware of the issue so far, let alone any solution, so I will wait until some awareness has been raised. We cannot be alone in experiencing this, I feel certain. Please, any XP gurus out there, raise an alarm on our behalf! Vince EggHeadCafe - .NET Developer Portal of Choice http://www.eggheadcafe.com
Guest Edward Ripley-Duggan Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 RE: KB921503 causes MY system to crash, too Thanks, Vince. I'm glad that my "heads-up" was a help to you. I'm sure that it's just a subset of us who are experiencing this problem, but with such a vast installation base as XP this may easily be thousands (or tens of thousands) of people who are tearing their hair. Best, Ted. "Vince Edgar" wrote: > I'm running XP Pro SP2 Media Center Edition. > Forewarned by you, I installed all the other recent critical updates before this one, with several system restore points. All seem OK except KB921503. After rebooting with this change, my system tray which normally has ten icons was EMPTY except for a rudimentary McAfee VirusScan (which comes on before Startup pgms): NO McAfee Security Center, ZA firewall, MS volume control or anything else. My Start menu could not be accessed nor any desktop programs opened. This is a serious problem, for certain. Like you, I had to boot in Safe Mode and restore to just before the KB921503 installation. > > I'm not going to waste one of my two free support calls to MS on this. Their sites seem blissfully unaware of the issue so far, let alone any solution, so I will wait until some awareness has been raised. We cannot be alone in experiencing this, I feel certain. > > Please, any XP gurus out there, raise an alarm on our behalf! > > Vince > > EggHeadCafe - .NET Developer Portal of Choice > http://www.eggheadcafe.com >
Guest Edward Ripley-Duggan Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 Hi Freudi, I'm clearly not alone in experiencing this problem, see Vince Edgar's post in this thread. Not to be argumentative, but I do feel that any MS patch needs to play nice with ZoneAlarm and any of the other major firewalls. In any case, based on my experience and testing to date, ZA Pro does not seem to be the issue. As to Regrun, they offer a VB tool as part of their range of software, but I have no reason to believe Regrun is written in VB. Maybe I'm wrong, but... FWIW, the Wilders forum, one of the leading security forms on the 'net, endorses them. So do I, as I have used the product through many different versions, under at least four Windows OS. I consider it a valuable security tool, though there are parts of it I'm less than pleased with (it suffers from feature bloat, these days, IMHO). I deactivated it and it is not the cause of the issue with this patch. Thanks anyhow! Best, Ted. "Ottmar Freudenberger" wrote: > "Edward Ripley-Duggan" <EdwardRipleyDuggan@discussions.microsoft.com> schrieb: > > > I use ZoneAlarm for my firewall > > Would you mind uninstalling that one at least for testing and > enable Windows Firewall instead? > > > also Regrun > > The whole suite? <showder> > Anyhow, it seems like the one from http://www.greatis.com/ may be > build with VisualBasic 6. Now have a look into the MSKB article > for KB921503: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/921503 an the Known > Issues section which also links to http://support.microsoft.com/kb/924053 > > > At least one other user on this list over the past 24 hours has described > > what sounds like identical (mis)behavior, with a transient (and unfortunately > > unreadable) error message. This is clearly not a problem that effects all > > machines, > > The/a problem with KB921503 which affects changes the OLE Automation > is effecting relative only a few systems whith individual configurations/ > applications running to be precise. > > Bye, > Freudi >
Guest Ottmar Freudenberger Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 "Edward Ripley-Duggan" <EdwardRipleyDuggan@discussions.microsoft.com> schrieb: > I'm clearly not alone in experiencing this problem, see Vince Edgar's post > in this thread. | effecting relative only a few systems The vast, and it's really the vast majority of systems do not have any serious problems with KB921503 at all. > Not to be argumentative, but I do feel that any MS patch > needs to play nice with ZoneAlarm and any of the other major firewalls. Nope, IMNSHO it's the other way around. > In any case, based on my experience and testing to date, ZA Pro does not seem to > be the issue. You've uninstalled ZA completly? > As to Regrun, they offer a VB tool as part of their range of software, but I > have no reason to believe Regrun is written in VB. Ask the vendor, then you'll know for sure. > I deactivated it and it is not the cause of the issue with this patch. Uninstalled too? KB921503 still causes your system to -ehm- crash? What's the exact error messages you're seeing with KB921503 installed and are they the same if you install KB921503 in Safe Mode and disable *all* applications listet in msconfig under "System Start"? Bye, Freudi
Guest Ottmar Freudenberger Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 Re: KB921503 causes MY system to crash, too <Vince Edgar> schrieb: > After rebooting with this change, my system tray which normally > has ten icons was EMPTY except for a rudimentary McAfee VirusScan > (which comes on before Startup pgms): NO McAfee Security Center, > ZA firewall, MS volume control or anything else. In an ideal world, *no* application of the ones mentioned above should be running while an update for Windows is installing. > I'm not going to waste one of my two free support calls to MS on this. [...] > Please, any XP gurus out there, raise an alarm on our behalf! Why should they? Cause *you* don't want to? That's reasonable. Bye, Freudi
Guest Ottmar Freudenberger Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 Re: KB921503 causes MY system to crash, too "Edward Ripley-Duggan" <EdwardRipleyDuggan@discussions.microsoft.com> schrieb: > Thanks, Vince. I'm glad that my "heads-up" was a help to you. I'm sure that > it's just a subset of us who are experiencing this problem, but with such a > vast installation base as XP this may easily be thousands (or tens of > thousands) of people who are tearing their hair. And Millons, tenth of millions, who don't have any problem. Bye, Freudi
Guest Edward Ripley-Duggan Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 Re: KB921503 causes MY system to crash, too In that case, in such an ideal world, Freudi, MS should arrange for its updates to be applied entirely in safe mode, free from such interference. The fact that they do not clearly implies that MS does not expect updates to cause conflicts with running software. I don't wholly disagree with you about the undesirability of having programs running while updating proceeds, but I also really don't think the average user is going to uninstall their firewall, AV, etc., etc. to facilitate MS updates. This is an an unreasonable and unworkable proposal. Anyway, enough on this subject. I don't have time to dispute the matter, nor to research it further, as my system is stable, albeit lacking this patch. My purpose was 1. to document a fix for those (few or many, we really don't know, do we, since one symptom of this problem is to render the computer inoperable) who have a headache after this update is installed and 2. To let any MS personnel browsing the forum know of a potential issue. it was not to dispute the coding of Regrun, or the optimal method of accepting updates. But I thank you anyway for an interesting discussion. Best, > > In an ideal world, *no* application of the ones mentioned above > should be running while an update for Windows is installing. > > > I'm not going to waste one of my two free support calls to MS on this. > [...] > > Please, any XP gurus out there, raise an alarm on our behalf! > > Why should they? Cause *you* don't want to? That's reasonable. > > Bye, > Freudi >
Guest Ottmar Freudenberger Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 Re: KB921503 causes MY system to crash, too "Edward Ripley-Duggan" <EdwardRipleyDuggan@discussions.microsoft.com> schrieb: > In that case, in such an ideal world, Freudi, MS should arrange for its > updates to be applied entirely in safe mode, free from such interference. Fell free to sugest that to MS directly - and to the vendors of "Security Software" too. > Anyway, enough on this subject. I don't have time to dispute the matter, nor > to research it further, as my system is stable, albeit lacking this patch. And beeing stil vulnerable for the security hole which is closed by the update. You've read the according Security Bulletin in the meantime, do you? > My > purpose was 1. to document a fix for those (few or many, we really don't > know, do we, since one symptom of this problem is to render the computer > inoperable) who have a headache after this update is installed Uninstalling isn't a real fix. It's not even a workaround in my eyes. Note that "the other one" having similar problems is also running ZoneAlarm, just as an example. > and 2. To let > any MS personnel browsing the forum know of a potential issue. That's fair enough but won't help. Open a call with MS's PSS on the issue which should be free since it seems to related to an security update. That's the only way to make *sure*, that MS is aware of an (potential or not) issue. Bye, Freudi
Guest Lady Dungeness Posted August 18, 2007 Posted August 18, 2007 Re: KB921503 causes MY system to crash, too ottmar, Your denials aren't helping. Bye "Ottmar Freudenberger" <freudi@gmx.net> wrote in message news:5imhqbF3pegjiU1@mid.individual.net... | "Edward Ripley-Duggan" <EdwardRipleyDuggan@discussions.microsoft.com> schrieb: | | > Thanks, Vince. I'm glad that my "heads-up" was a help to you. I'm sure that | > it's just a subset of us who are experiencing this problem, but with such a | > vast installation base as XP this may easily be thousands (or tens of | > thousands) of people who are tearing their hair. | | And Millons, tenth of millions, who don't have any problem. | | Bye, | Freudi
Guest Ottmar Freudenberger Posted August 19, 2007 Posted August 19, 2007 Re: KB921503 causes MY system to crash, too "Lady Dungeness" <lady.dungeness@deepsea.net> schrieb: > Your denials aren't helping. Your fatalism and accusing/striking the wrong donkey is? Putting things/problems into perspective is? Well I strongly disagree then. Bye, Freudi
Guest Francesco Schino Posted September 12, 2007 Posted September 12, 2007 KB921503 causes MY system to crash too I have installed the 9 patches in september and after nstalltion my PC was kapput. So I restore my sw to previous state using sw of Symantec called "Norton GoBack" and I try to install the patches one by one and on KB921503 I get the problem. The "Norton GOBack" told me that the following DLL was corrupted : localsp1.dll oleant.dll rad1g.dll rasman.dll rastaoi.dll nwlnkipx.sys reade.txt After, I install all other patches and every thing were ok. My best Francesco Schino EggHeadCafe - .NET Developer Portal of Choice http://www.eggheadcafe.com
Recommended Posts