Re: Second Drive Not Recognized in Win98

[MEB]

Hi Mike,

If you post this issue in microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion you will
find more help. Let's see if a cross-post goes through, you'll need to pick
up that group if you aren't already pulling it [monitoring]

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
a Peoples' counsel
_ _
~~
"mikesmith" <mikesmith@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:71926BD7-7769-432E-8531-10441CEEDDBC@microsoft.com...
|
|
| "philo" wrote:
|
| >
| > "Peggy A" <PeggyA@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > news:B060872C-5BCE-4C11-9A0F-5AB9F898F2D4@microsoft.com...
| > > I am trying to help a friend get her data from an old hard drive after
her
| > > motherboard died. This drive is from a 6-7 year old Gateway PC and it
has
| > the
| > > older parallel connector, so I tried to add it as a second drive in an
| > older
| > > Dell Dimension XPS Pro PC running Windows 98 SE. I attached the second
| > drive
| > > as a slave and the BIOS recognizes it, but I cannot see it in Windows.
| > I've
| > > read other posts about needing to format the drive, but since this
drive
| > has
| > > data on it, I cannot reformat it. I also tried attaching it as the
| > primary
| > > and only drive, but the system wouldn't boot. I even applied an update
to
| > the
| > > BIOS thinking it may be a drive capacity issue since the second one is
a
| > 40
| > > GB drive. That didn't have any impact either.
| > >
| > > Is there a way to get Windows 98 to recognize this drive so I can copy
the
| > > data off of it for her? Any suggestions on the best way to get the
data
| > off
| > > her drive would be appreciated.
| > >
| > > Thanks.
| > >
| > >
| >
| > If the drive came from another win98 machine...it should be visible
| >
| > however if it came from a Win2k machine or an XP machine...the drive may
| > very well be formatted as NTFS
| > and not visible from win98 which cannot recognize NTFS
| >
| > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS
| >
| >
| > Im having sort of the same problem as philo
| My Operating System is Windows 98SE..
| Ok here goes...
| my computer motherboard *WAS*an ABIT KT7-RAID it died...
| when the computer was running i had 2 hard drives installed on it..
| 1 MASTER (Operating System 98SE* And Programs ONLY*)..
| 1 SLAVE (for Data Backup And Storage Only)
| both hard drives were on the *same IDE Cable*
| their pins were set on MASTER and SlAVE
| *Not* on cable select....
|
| the Master hard drive was a
| IBM DeskStar Hard Drive
| Model: DPTA-371360 (ATA)
| 13.6 GB 7200 RPM
| P/N 31L9151
|
| the Slave hard drive was a
| Quantum Fireball Hard Drive
| Quantum Fireball lct20
| Model ID: QML20000LD-A
| 20.4 GB 4500 RPM
| P/N 204531-001
|
| heres what happened
| well my motherboard died so i got another motherboard that would work with
| my parts off my old system..
| a friend gave me a striped Compaq computer (MotherBoard and Case Only)
| a *Compaq 5000US*
| besides no over clocking in the Bios on the Compaq like My KT-7 had it
works
| pretty good..
| i installed my processor (AMD Athlon 1200 - A1200AMS3B)
| and my Memory sticks...
| i installed My Windows 98SE Operating system On the IBM hard drive..
| *just like on My old system*
| Got it All running good...
| im using it right now typing this...
| its all running GREAT..
| HERES THE PROBLEM..
| then When i went to Put in My Quantum disk Drive with ALL my data on it
| on the same IDE cable as The IBM with my OS
| *just like i had set up in my old system*
| REMEMBER i have the Quantum Slaved ALL READY..i Didn't Change Anything
| Started up my System...
| i Got a ERROR...
| NO DISK FOUND
| my system wouldent boot up..
| i restarted and checked in my BIOS..
| both Hard Drives were listed in the Bios As they should be..right Size and
| all..
| restarted it again...nothing..same Error
| shut it all down...pulled out the Quantum Hard drive...
| it stared up fine..booted fine no problems..system running good
| so i thought id try putting the Quantum On the Second IDE cable...
| the system booted up then...BUT NO D: DRIVE was showing...just the C:
drive
| was showing up...
| pulled out the Quantum Again..put the Pin on the Quantum to Master..
| same thing the drive was NOT showing...only the C: drive showing
| restarted the computer again..
| looked in my Bios Again..there it was Again..but showing as a Master on
the
| Second IDE now...like it should..since i changed it to that...
| restarted my system...
| NO D: drive showing up..
| pulled out the Quantum...
| put back My DVD burner and DVD ROM back on to the Second IDE...
| they were working fine...so i know the Second IDE works
| PUT the Quantium back in...then *checked it in Fdisk*..
| it was showing up There...**BUT** the FAT wasent showing..it was showing
as
| UNKNOWN....Not FAT32 like it should be..the IBM was showing FAT32
| i thought what the hecks going on i didnt change anything on it...
| just pluged it in on my new system...
| then i tried checking it with the Quantium Disk tool in DOS..
| (Maxator Max Blaster 4.0 Partition tool)..
| it was showing up as FAT32 in the Quantum disk tool...like it should..
| i thought whats going on..one DOS tools showing it...ones not..
| what the hecks going on....im worried im going to loose all my data i
thought
| was safe due to being on a seperate hard drive disk..
| i didnt change anything on it just pluged it on to another Windows 98
system
| it should be working fine..
| i have done this before with other peoples system..pulled a hard drive
from
| one Windows 98 system..Slaved the Hard drive pin..
| Put it on to another windows 98 system and had it always showed and was
| always able to get data from them...
| whats up with this one???
| i am SOOO lost..
| why isen't the FAT32 showing in Fdisk now
| and *WHY IS IT*showing in the Quantium Disk tool for that type of hard
| drive...
| it was working fine before...
| all i did was take a SLAVED Hard drive DATA Disk that was working fine..
| and put it onto another system..
| why isen't it working now??
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|

 

[Jeff Richards]

If you were using some disk management software for the Quantum drive when
it was a slave in the old machine, then that software is not running now and
the partitioning will not be recognised by Windows. That would produce the
symptoms you are seeing - the drive is recognised in BIOS and some
information can be accessed but it is inconsistent and not sufficient to
allow Windows (or DOS) to recognise it as properly partitioned or formatted.

This would be the case if the old BIOS was not capable of recognising the
full capacity of that drive and you had to use management software to make
it compatible, or if you originally configured the drive using the drive
manufacturer's configuration utility (whether it was really needed or not).

You can get a similar result if the logical block mapping is different
between the two BIOSes. Sometimes, manually configuring the BIOS settings
for the new machine can get you back to a compatible setting.

It's also possible that when the motherboard died it took the drive with it.
Run the manufacturer's diagnostics to confirm that the drive really is
working OK.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ejTlwJsIJHA.4324@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Hi Mike,
>
> If you post this issue in microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion you will
> find more help. Let's see if a cross-post goes through, you'll need to
> pick
> up that group if you aren't already pulling it [monitoring]
>
> "mikesmith" <mikesmith@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:71926BD7-7769-432E-8531-10441CEEDDBC@microsoft.com...
> |
> | snip | <
> | >
> | > Im having sort of the same problem as philo
> | My Operating System is Windows 98SE..
> | Ok here goes...
> | my computer motherboard *WAS*an ABIT KT7-RAID it died...
> | when the computer was running i had 2 hard drives installed on it..
> | 1 MASTER (Operating System 98SE* And Programs ONLY*)..
> | 1 SLAVE (for Data Backup And Storage Only)
> | both hard drives were on the *same IDE Cable*
> | their pins were set on MASTER and SlAVE
> | *Not* on cable select....
> |
> | the Master hard drive was a
> | IBM DeskStar Hard Drive
> | Model: DPTA-371360 (ATA)
> | 13.6 GB 7200 RPM
> | P/N 31L9151
> |
> | the Slave hard drive was a
> | Quantum Fireball Hard Drive
> | Quantum Fireball lct20
> | Model ID: QML20000LD-A
> | 20.4 GB 4500 RPM
> | P/N 204531-001
> |
> | heres what happened
> | well my motherboard died so i got another motherboard that would work
> with
> | my parts off my old system..
> | a friend gave me a striped Compaq computer (MotherBoard and Case Only)
> | a *Compaq 5000US*
> | besides no over clocking in the Bios on the Compaq like My KT-7 had it
> works
> | pretty good..
> | i installed my processor (AMD Athlon 1200 - A1200AMS3B)
> | and my Memory sticks...
> | i installed My Windows 98SE Operating system On the IBM hard drive..
> | *just like on My old system*
> | Got it All running good...
> | im using it right now typing this...
> | its all running GREAT..
> | HERES THE PROBLEM..
> | then When i went to Put in My Quantum disk Drive with ALL my data on it
> | on the same IDE cable as The IBM with my OS
> | *just like i had set up in my old system*
> | REMEMBER i have the Quantum Slaved ALL READY..i Didn't Change Anything
> | Started up my System...
> | i Got a ERROR...
> | NO DISK FOUND
> | my system wouldent boot up..
> | i restarted and checked in my BIOS..
> | both Hard Drives were listed in the Bios As they should be..right Size
> and
> | all..
> | restarted it again...nothing..same Error
> | shut it all down...pulled out the Quantum Hard drive...
> | it stared up fine..booted fine no problems..system running good
> | so i thought id try putting the Quantum On the Second IDE cable...
> | the system booted up then...BUT NO D: DRIVE was showing...just the C:
> drive
> | was showing up...
> | pulled out the Quantum Again..put the Pin on the Quantum to Master..
> | same thing the drive was NOT showing...only the C: drive showing
> | restarted the computer again..
> | looked in my Bios Again..there it was Again..but showing as a Master on
> the
> | Second IDE now...like it should..since i changed it to that...
> | restarted my system...
> | NO D: drive showing up..
> | pulled out the Quantum...
> | put back My DVD burner and DVD ROM back on to the Second IDE...
> | they were working fine...so i know the Second IDE works
> | PUT the Quantium back in...then *checked it in Fdisk*..
> | it was showing up There...**BUT** the FAT wasent showing..it was showing
> as
> | UNKNOWN....Not FAT32 like it should be..the IBM was showing FAT32
> | i thought what the hecks going on i didnt change anything on it...
> | just pluged it in on my new system...
> | then i tried checking it with the Quantium Disk tool in DOS..
> | (Maxator Max Blaster 4.0 Partition tool)..
> | it was showing up as FAT32 in the Quantum disk tool...like it should..
> | i thought whats going on..one DOS tools showing it...ones not..
> | what the hecks going on....im worried im going to loose all my data i
> thought
> | was safe due to being on a seperate hard drive disk..
> | i didnt change anything on it just pluged it on to another Windows 98
> system
> | it should be working fine..
> | i have done this before with other peoples system..pulled a hard drive
> from
> | one Windows 98 system..Slaved the Hard drive pin..
> | Put it on to another windows 98 system and had it always showed and was
> | always able to get data from them...
> | whats up with this one???
> | i am SOOO lost..
> | why isen't the FAT32 showing in Fdisk now
> | and *WHY IS IT*showing in the Quantium Disk tool for that type of hard
> | drive...
> | it was working fine before...
> | all i did was take a SLAVED Hard drive DATA Disk that was working fine..
> | and put it onto another system..
> | why isen't it working now??
> |

 

[mikesmith]

"Jeff Richards" wrote:
If you were using some disk management software for the Quantum drive when
it was a slave in the old machine, then that software is not running now and
the partitioning will not be recognised by Windows. That would produce the
symptoms you are seeing - the drive is recognised in BIOS and some
information can be accessed but it is inconsistent and not sufficient to
allow Windows (or DOS) to recognise it as properly partitioned or formatted.
This would be the case if the old BIOS was not capable of recognising the
full capacity of that drive and you had to use management software to make
it compatible, or if you originally configured the drive using the drive
manufacturer's configuration utility (whether it was really needed or not).

You can get a similar result if the logical block mapping is different
between the two BIOSes. Sometimes, manually configuring the BIOS settings
for the new machine can get you back to a compatible setting.

It's also possible that when the motherboard died it took the drive with it.
Run the manufacturer's diagnostics to confirm that the drive really is
working OK.

Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ejTlwJsIJHA.4324@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

***
Hey jeff
thanks for answering my post
i don't know everything about computers..
but i may know a little bit more then some people...
please keep this in mind..

you wrote:
*If you were using some disk management software*

i wasent using any disk management software..
i dont think that is it...

you wrote:
*or if you originally configured the drive using the drive
manufacturer's configuration utility (whether it was really needed or not).*

this might be it Jeff..
not 100% really sure..
heres where things get a lil foggy..
(Due to building my old system about 5-6 years ago..)
i have never had to reinstall the operating system ever (98SE)..
it worked great from day 1 of me building it..
no problems ever..
can you believe that...
never having to re-install Windows

Anyways...
when i first built it ..
heres what i think i did when i went to install my second hard drive

*FIRST* i Low level formated the Hard drive with the Quantium tool (MAXTOR)
I KNOW FOR SURE I DID THAT...
then..
heres where the foggy part is, that im not really sure about..
i SWEAR this is what happened...
BUT NOT! 100% sure though..
(like i said this was 6 years ago...)

THEN i put in Fdisk and
partition the Hard Drive and formated it ..I KNOW I DID THIS

BUT!! then..i think..not 100% sure
then when i went to reboot my computer..
Windows didnt see the D: drive..
i was like what the hecks going on here!!...
so i put back in the Quantum tool..
and as soon as i did...it may have done something
and said something like..
not compatable with your current system you need to *SOMETHING*
i forget..
i think i just clicked OK..
and it did something..
then i rebooted..
and there was my D: drive..
all i remember was being happy..
because it was BIGGEST Hard Drive i EVER had and it was working..lol...
(ha ha 20 Gigs BIG!!... 6 years look how far we've come..anyways)
yeah in not really sure...
but im kinda thinking maybe thats what happened..

and now im worring that your going to say..
im going to loose all that data..
just because i may have
originally configured the drive using the drive manufacturer's configuration
utility

how can i check and see if i did do that???...can i?

then you wrote..
*You can get a similar result if the logical block mapping is different
between the two BIOSes. Sometimes, manually configuring the BIOS settings
for the new machine can get you back to a compatible setting.

im lost here..
i do know
that my bios in my Abit KT7 had WAY MORE options..
like i could set the paramaters manualy for the Hard drives..
cylinders..blocks...and stuff like that

and the new Compaq motherboard dosen't have nothing much in it..
only stuff like Enable Dissable UMDA...a few other things..
it doesen't even show much about the hard drives info..
just the name and size of the Hard drives that about it..
yeah the Compaq Bios is nothing compared to the Abits Bios..
the Compaq Bios is for pre-schoolers..
so i think that might not be a option to change much there..

so Jeff buddy what do you think?
what if i did do the configuration thing with the Quantum tool..
any thing?..
i still have the Quantum tool..
and there is some options in it..
but im not sure of what some of Options even do...
i dont want to do anything to loose this data..
like pick a option in the tool and have it make things worse then they are..
any more ideas or thoughts?
if not thanks so much for the information you gave me so far..
and if not..
yeah thanks so much for trying to help me..
yeah Jeff..thanks so much for your time buddy..
yeah thanks alout buddy
yeah your wicked cool for trying to even help..
thanks alot!!

 

[Jeff Richards]

It sure sounds like the drive was set up to be managed by the Quantum
software. At this stage, that's a better assumption than some difference in
the LBA (which is what could have happened as a result of needing to make
special settings in the original BIOS).

If you can find the Quantum software then have a good look through the
documentation to get an idea of what's needed to access that disk. The
process will involve installing the drive management software to the boot
disk (C in your case) WITHOUT going through the drive setup procedure for
the drive that is going to be managed - that is, without doing the
equivalent of FDISK on the second drive. You might even be able to do the
setup without having that drive connected to the machine, just to be safe.
It will probably complain about no having any drives that need to be
managed, but should still install. Once the software is running it only
interferes with those drives that require it. When you then reconnect the
old drive, it should then be recognised as a managed drive and should become
accessible.

So the important thing to keep in mind is that the software has two parts.
The disk preparation part for the drive to be managed, which has already
been done and you definitely do not want to repeat, and the management
software installation part (to the boot drive) which you do want to repeat.
The documentation for the software should cover that option.

It may be possible to use the Quantum software to prepare a boot floppy that
will give you DOS access to that drive. That will at least prove what the
problem is, and you could, if necessary, retrieve your data through DOS.

In the meantime, be very careful that you don't do anything that might write
to that old disk. In its current state it looks usable in some
circumstances, but if data gets written to the disk then it may be written
using different partitioning parameters to those it is actually set up with,
and the file system will be corrupted. Be particularly careful of anything
that wants to try and 'repair' the disk (as distinct from simply examining,
displaying or copying off the contents) as the repair could destroy all the
data.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"mikesmith" <mikesmith@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:8DE3220C-C968-4A75-B401-6BB37980C76D@microsoft.com...
>
> "Jeff Richards" wrote:
> If you were using some disk management software for the Quantum drive when
> it was a slave in the old machine, then that software is not running now
> and
> the partitioning will not be recognised by Windows. That would produce the
> symptoms you are seeing - the drive is recognised in BIOS and some
> information can be accessed but it is inconsistent and not sufficient to
> allow Windows (or DOS) to recognise it as properly partitioned or
> formatted.
> This would be the case if the old BIOS was not capable of recognising the
> full capacity of that drive and you had to use management software to make
> it compatible, or if you originally configured the drive using the drive
> manufacturer's configuration utility (whether it was really needed or
> not).
>
> You can get a similar result if the logical block mapping is different
> between the two BIOSes. Sometimes, manually configuring the BIOS settings
> for the new machine can get you back to a compatible setting.
>
> It's also possible that when the motherboard died it took the drive with
> it.
> Run the manufacturer's diagnostics to confirm that the drive really is
> working OK.
>
> Jeff Richards
> MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
> "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ejTlwJsIJHA.4324@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
> ***
> Hey jeff
> thanks for answering my post
> i don't know everything about computers..
> but i may know a little bit more then some people...
> please keep this in mind..
>
> you wrote:
> *If you were using some disk management software*
>
> i wasent using any disk management software..
> i dont think that is it...
>
> you wrote:
> *or if you originally configured the drive using the drive
> manufacturer's configuration utility (whether it was really needed or
> not).*
>
> this might be it Jeff..
> not 100% really sure..
> heres where things get a lil foggy..
> (Due to building my old system about 5-6 years ago..)
> i have never had to reinstall the operating system ever (98SE)..
> it worked great from day 1 of me building it..
> no problems ever..
> can you believe that...
> never having to re-install Windows
>
> Anyways...
> when i first built it ..
> heres what i think i did when i went to install my second hard drive
>
> *FIRST* i Low level formated the Hard drive with the Quantium tool
> (MAXTOR)
> I KNOW FOR SURE I DID THAT...
> then..
> heres where the foggy part is, that im not really sure about..
> i SWEAR this is what happened...
> BUT NOT! 100% sure though..
> (like i said this was 6 years ago...)
>
> THEN i put in Fdisk and
> partition the Hard Drive and formated it ..I KNOW I DID THIS
>
> BUT!! then..i think..not 100% sure
> then when i went to reboot my computer..
> Windows didnt see the D: drive..
> i was like what the hecks going on here!!...
> so i put back in the Quantum tool..
> and as soon as i did...it may have done something
> and said something like..
> not compatable with your current system you need to *SOMETHING*
> i forget..
> i think i just clicked OK..
> and it did something..
> then i rebooted..
> and there was my D: drive..
> all i remember was being happy..
> because it was BIGGEST Hard Drive i EVER had and it was working..lol...
> (ha ha 20 Gigs BIG!!... 6 years look how far we've come..anyways)
> yeah in not really sure...
> but im kinda thinking maybe thats what happened..
>
> and now im worring that your going to say..
> im going to loose all that data..
> just because i may have
> originally configured the drive using the drive manufacturer's
> configuration
> utility
>
> how can i check and see if i did do that???...can i?
>
> then you wrote..
> *You can get a similar result if the logical block mapping is different
> between the two BIOSes. Sometimes, manually configuring the BIOS settings
> for the new machine can get you back to a compatible setting.
>
> im lost here..
> i do know
> that my bios in my Abit KT7 had WAY MORE options..
> like i could set the paramaters manualy for the Hard drives..
> cylinders..blocks...and stuff like that
>
> and the new Compaq motherboard dosen't have nothing much in it..
> only stuff like Enable Dissable UMDA...a few other things..
> it doesen't even show much about the hard drives info..
> just the name and size of the Hard drives that about it..
> yeah the Compaq Bios is nothing compared to the Abits Bios..
> the Compaq Bios is for pre-schoolers..
> so i think that might not be a option to change much there..
>
> so Jeff buddy what do you think?
> what if i did do the configuration thing with the Quantum tool..
> any thing?..
> i still have the Quantum tool..
> and there is some options in it..
> but im not sure of what some of Options even do...
> i dont want to do anything to loose this data..
> like pick a option in the tool and have it make things worse then they
> are..
> any more ideas or thoughts?
> if not thanks so much for the information you gave me so far..
> and if not..
> yeah thanks so much for trying to help me..
> yeah Jeff..thanks so much for your time buddy..
> yeah thanks alout buddy
> yeah your wicked cool for trying to even help..
> thanks alot!!
>
>
>
>

 

[PCR]

Jeff Richards wrote:
| It sure sounds like the drive was set up to be managed by the Quantum
| software. At this stage, that's a better assumption than some
| difference in the LBA (which is what could have happened as a result
| of needing to make special settings in the original BIOS).
|
| If you can find the Quantum software then have a good look through the
| documentation to get an idea of what's needed to access that disk.
| The process will involve installing the drive management software to
| the boot disk (C in your case) WITHOUT going through the drive setup
| procedure for the drive that is going to be managed - that is,
| without doing the equivalent of FDISK on the second drive. You
| might even be able to do the setup without having that drive
| connected to the machine, just to be safe. It will probably complain
| about no having any drives that need to be managed, but should still
| install. Once the software is running it only interferes with those
| drives that require it. When you then reconnect the old drive, it
| should then be recognised as a managed drive and should become
| accessible.
|
| So the important thing to keep in mind is that the software has two
| parts. The disk preparation part for the drive to be managed, which
| has already been done and you definitely do not want to repeat, and
| the management software installation part (to the boot drive) which
| you do want to repeat. The documentation for the software should
| cover that option.
|
| It may be possible to use the Quantum software to prepare a boot
| floppy that will give you DOS access to that drive. That will at
| least prove what the problem is, and you could, if necessary,
| retrieve your data through DOS.
|
| In the meantime, be very careful that you don't do anything that
| might write to that old disk. In its current state it looks usable
| in some circumstances, but if data gets written to the disk then it
| may be written using different partitioning parameters to those it is
| actually set up with, and the file system will be corrupted. Be
| particularly careful of anything that wants to try and 'repair' the
| disk (as distinct from simply examining, displaying or copying off
| the contents) as the repair could destroy all the data.

Since mikesmith's new Compaq 5000US motherboard/BIOS sees the full 20
GBs of the Maxblast drive (as he reports & I've seen it in a NET ad),
isn't it worth a try to uninstall Maxbast? And I wonder whether MBRWork
could do that with its Option 8. If Option 8 doesn't show up, I wonder
whether this would do it...?...

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/utilities.html MBRWork
Free MBR utility.

(a) Option 7 - Work with multiple hard drives.
Get to drive 1, the bad one.
(b) Option 1-- Backup the first track on a hard drive.
Makes a backup of the current MBR & EMBR.
Then, Option 2 can undo all of the following...
(c) Option 3 - Reset the EMBR area to all zeros.
A generally unused area between the MBR & end of first track,
but it can hold a drive overlay or 3rd party boot manager.
(d) Option 4 - Reset the MBR area to all zeros.
This wipes the MBR table holding the dimensions of all partitions
on that drive, if more than one. But it leaves all other drives
intact.
(e) Select option A to recover partition(s).
This generates partition dimensions into the MBR,
getting them somehow from the partition data area itself.
Sounds like it ONLY will work, IF the MBR has been mussed,
& everything else is fine.
(f) Option 5 - Install standard MBR Code
This will put boot code into the MBR.

........Quote MBRWork Readme .......
MBRWork - Freeware utility to perform some common and uncommon MBR
and disk functions. Provided As-Is.

It can perform the following:

1 - Backup the first track on a hard drive.
2 - Restore the backup file.
3 - Reset the EMBR area to all zeros.
4 - Reset the MBR are to all zeros.
5 - Install standard MBR Code
6 - Set a partition active (avail on the command line too)
7 - Work with multiple hard drives.
8 - Remove EZ-Drive (You must boot directly to a diskette [bypassing
ez-drive] for this option to show)
9 - Edit MBR partition entry values.
A - If no partitions exist in the MBR and no EMBR exists then this
option will allow you to recover lost FAT, HPFS, NTFS, and
Extended partitions.
C - Capture up to 64 disk sectors to a file.
R - Restore up to 64 disk sectors from a file. This feature should only
be used by those who completely understand what they are doing!
T - Transfer/Copy sectors from disk to disk. This feature should only
be used by those who completely understand what they are doing!
P - Compare sectors.
......EOQ... MBRWork Readme .............

| --
| Jeff Richards
| MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
| "mikesmith" <mikesmith@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| news:8DE3220C-C968-4A75-B401-6BB37980C76D@microsoft.com...
|>
|> "Jeff Richards" wrote:
|> If you were using some disk management software for the Quantum
|> drive when it was a slave in the old machine, then that software is
|> not running now and
|> the partitioning will not be recognised by Windows. That would
|> produce the symptoms you are seeing - the drive is recognised in
|> BIOS and some information can be accessed but it is inconsistent and
|> not sufficient to allow Windows (or DOS) to recognise it as properly
|> partitioned or formatted.
|> This would be the case if the old BIOS was not capable of
|> recognising the full capacity of that drive and you had to use
|> management software to make it compatible, or if you originally
|> configured the drive using the drive manufacturer's configuration
|> utility (whether it was really needed or not).
|>
|> You can get a similar result if the logical block mapping is
|> different between the two BIOSes. Sometimes, manually configuring
|> the BIOS settings for the new machine can get you back to a
|> compatible setting.
|>
|> It's also possible that when the motherboard died it took the drive
|> with it.
|> Run the manufacturer's diagnostics to confirm that the drive really
|> is working OK.
|>
|> Jeff Richards
|> MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
|> "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
|> news:ejTlwJsIJHA.4324@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
|>
|> ***
|> Hey jeff
|> thanks for answering my post
|> i don't know everything about computers..
|> but i may know a little bit more then some people...
|> please keep this in mind..
|>
|> you wrote:
|> *If you were using some disk management software*
|>
|> i wasent using any disk management software..
|> i dont think that is it...
|>
|> you wrote:
|> *or if you originally configured the drive using the drive
|> manufacturer's configuration utility (whether it was really needed or
|> not).*
|>
|> this might be it Jeff..
|> not 100% really sure..
|> heres where things get a lil foggy..
|> (Due to building my old system about 5-6 years ago..)
|> i have never had to reinstall the operating system ever (98SE)..
|> it worked great from day 1 of me building it..
|> no problems ever..
|> can you believe that...
|> never having to re-install Windows
|>
|> Anyways...
|> when i first built it ..
|> heres what i think i did when i went to install my second hard drive
|>
|> *FIRST* i Low level formated the Hard drive with the Quantium tool
|> (MAXTOR)
|> I KNOW FOR SURE I DID THAT...
|> then..
|> heres where the foggy part is, that im not really sure about..
|> i SWEAR this is what happened...
|> BUT NOT! 100% sure though..
|> (like i said this was 6 years ago...)
|>
|> THEN i put in Fdisk and
|> partition the Hard Drive and formated it ..I KNOW I DID THIS
|>
|> BUT!! then..i think..not 100% sure
|> then when i went to reboot my computer..
|> Windows didnt see the D: drive..
|> i was like what the hecks going on here!!...
|> so i put back in the Quantum tool..
|> and as soon as i did...it may have done something
|> and said something like..
|> not compatable with your current system you need to *SOMETHING*
|> i forget..
|> i think i just clicked OK..
|> and it did something..
|> then i rebooted..
|> and there was my D: drive..
|> all i remember was being happy..
|> because it was BIGGEST Hard Drive i EVER had and it was
|> working..lol... (ha ha 20 Gigs BIG!!... 6 years look how far we've
|> come..anyways)
|> yeah in not really sure...
|> but im kinda thinking maybe thats what happened..
|>
|> and now im worring that your going to say..
|> im going to loose all that data..
|> just because i may have
|> originally configured the drive using the drive manufacturer's
|> configuration
|> utility
|>
|> how can i check and see if i did do that???...can i?
|>
|> then you wrote..
|> *You can get a similar result if the logical block mapping is
|> different between the two BIOSes. Sometimes, manually configuring
|> the BIOS settings for the new machine can get you back to a
|> compatible setting.
|>
|> im lost here..
|> i do know
|> that my bios in my Abit KT7 had WAY MORE options..
|> like i could set the paramaters manualy for the Hard drives..
|> cylinders..blocks...and stuff like that
|>
|> and the new Compaq motherboard dosen't have nothing much in it..
|> only stuff like Enable Dissable UMDA...a few other things..
|> it doesen't even show much about the hard drives info..
|> just the name and size of the Hard drives that about it..
|> yeah the Compaq Bios is nothing compared to the Abits Bios..
|> the Compaq Bios is for pre-schoolers..
|> so i think that might not be a option to change much there..
|>
|> so Jeff buddy what do you think?
|> what if i did do the configuration thing with the Quantum tool..
|> any thing?..
|> i still have the Quantum tool..
|> and there is some options in it..
|> but im not sure of what some of Options even do...
|> i dont want to do anything to loose this data..
|> like pick a option in the tool and have it make things worse then
|> they are..
|> any more ideas or thoughts?
|> if not thanks so much for the information you gave me so far..
|> and if not..
|> yeah thanks so much for trying to help me..
|> yeah Jeff..thanks so much for your time buddy..
|> yeah thanks alout buddy
|> yeah your wicked cool for trying to even help..
|> thanks alot!!

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcrrcp@netzero.net

 

[Jeff Richards]

I have not used the process you describe, but I think it is unlikely to
work. The point of the Quantum software is to map the disk sectors to
hardware parameters that the BIOS can understand. Simply rewriting the MBR
without that particular mapping in place could write the MBR to the 'wrong'
physical location, possibly overwriting data such as FAT. Then again, it may
not, as the MBR location is often the same between the mapped and unmapped
states. That may be why the drive appears to be partially accessible (and
why I was careful to warn against allowing anything to write to it). But
when it's accessed by the OS, if the correct mapping is not happening then
the FAT will not make sense (even if it hasn't been corrupted) as the
logical sector numbers used in the FAT will map to different physical
locations (and also presumably won't match the partition information).

The Quantum software might have a facility for undoing the mapping - that
is, physically re-arranging the data in the sectors to match the default
hardware characteristics - but in my experience it is easier to copy off the
data and rebuild the drive from scratch. Note that I was careful not to call
this 'uninstalling' - the management software is not currently installed,
and my guess is that's the problem. What we are trying to achieve is to
undo the special sector numbering arrangement of that drive. It's not just
terminology - it's an important distinction because there is a significant
amount of complex data shuffling needed.

Also, we have to first confirm that this is actually the problem.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:%23ZTEecbJJHA.740@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Jeff Richards wrote:
> | It sure sounds like the drive was set up to be managed by the Quantum
> | software. At this stage, that's a better assumption than some
> | difference in the LBA (which is what could have happened as a result
> | of needing to make special settings in the original BIOS).
> |
> | If you can find the Quantum software then have a good look through the
> | documentation to get an idea of what's needed to access that disk.
> | The process will involve installing the drive management software to
> | the boot disk (C in your case) WITHOUT going through the drive setup
> | procedure for the drive that is going to be managed - that is,
> | without doing the equivalent of FDISK on the second drive. You
> | might even be able to do the setup without having that drive
> | connected to the machine, just to be safe. It will probably complain
> | about no having any drives that need to be managed, but should still
> | install. Once the software is running it only interferes with those
> | drives that require it. When you then reconnect the old drive, it
> | should then be recognised as a managed drive and should become
> | accessible.
> |
> | So the important thing to keep in mind is that the software has two
> | parts. The disk preparation part for the drive to be managed, which
> | has already been done and you definitely do not want to repeat, and
> | the management software installation part (to the boot drive) which
> | you do want to repeat. The documentation for the software should
> | cover that option.
> |
> | It may be possible to use the Quantum software to prepare a boot
> | floppy that will give you DOS access to that drive. That will at
> | least prove what the problem is, and you could, if necessary,
> | retrieve your data through DOS.
> |
> | In the meantime, be very careful that you don't do anything that
> | might write to that old disk. In its current state it looks usable
> | in some circumstances, but if data gets written to the disk then it
> | may be written using different partitioning parameters to those it is
> | actually set up with, and the file system will be corrupted. Be
> | particularly careful of anything that wants to try and 'repair' the
> | disk (as distinct from simply examining, displaying or copying off
> | the contents) as the repair could destroy all the data.
>
> Since mikesmith's new Compaq 5000US motherboard/BIOS sees the full 20
> GBs of the Maxblast drive (as he reports & I've seen it in a NET ad),
> isn't it worth a try to uninstall Maxbast? And I wonder whether MBRWork
> could do that with its Option 8. If Option 8 doesn't show up, I wonder
> whether this would do it...?...
>
> http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/utilities.html MBRWork
> Free MBR utility.
>
> (a) Option 7 - Work with multiple hard drives.
> Get to drive 1, the bad one.
> (b) Option 1-- Backup the first track on a hard drive.
> Makes a backup of the current MBR & EMBR.
> Then, Option 2 can undo all of the following...
> (c) Option 3 - Reset the EMBR area to all zeros.
> A generally unused area between the MBR & end of first track,
> but it can hold a drive overlay or 3rd party boot manager.
> (d) Option 4 - Reset the MBR area to all zeros.
> This wipes the MBR table holding the dimensions of all partitions
> on that drive, if more than one. But it leaves all other drives
> intact.
> (e) Select option A to recover partition(s).
> This generates partition dimensions into the MBR,
> getting them somehow from the partition data area itself.
> Sounds like it ONLY will work, IF the MBR has been mussed,
> & everything else is fine.
> (f) Option 5 - Install standard MBR Code
> This will put boot code into the MBR.
>
> .......Quote MBRWork Readme .......
> MBRWork - Freeware utility to perform some common and uncommon MBR
> and disk functions. Provided As-Is.
>
> It can perform the following:
>
> 1 - Backup the first track on a hard drive.
> 2 - Restore the backup file.
> 3 - Reset the EMBR area to all zeros.
> 4 - Reset the MBR are to all zeros.
> 5 - Install standard MBR Code
> 6 - Set a partition active (avail on the command line too)
> 7 - Work with multiple hard drives.
> 8 - Remove EZ-Drive (You must boot directly to a diskette [bypassing
> ez-drive] for this option to show)
> 9 - Edit MBR partition entry values.
> A - If no partitions exist in the MBR and no EMBR exists then this
> option will allow you to recover lost FAT, HPFS, NTFS, and
> Extended partitions.
> C - Capture up to 64 disk sectors to a file.
> R - Restore up to 64 disk sectors from a file. This feature should only
> be used by those who completely understand what they are doing!
> T - Transfer/Copy sectors from disk to disk. This feature should only
> be used by those who completely understand what they are doing!
> P - Compare sectors.
> .....EOQ... MBRWork Readme .............
>

 

[PCR]

Jeff Richards wrote:
| I have not used the process you describe, but I think it is unlikely
| to work.

Yea, I haven't used it either. And I haven't yet found an instance of
anyone having used it for this purpose (but I'm sure some must exist
somewhere). And I'd hate to see mikesmith waste his Quantum Fireball.

BUT Terabyte has deemed it possible to put an Option 8 into MBRWork (a
little 26KB program), & Terabyte usually is quite good. Therefore, it
must be possible to do it-- but what really needs to be done?

Is it as you fear that something unusal has been done to the structure
of the partition (maybe the FAT tables)? Or can it be all is well with
that-- & only the MBR has been altered? Then, into the MBR boot code was
inserted a call to the Quantum DDO that kind of supplements BIOS to
understand LBA. The MBR table (& the FAT tables) could be a normal one
that includes LBA information. However, looks like the partition type(s)
is altered, maybe to...

http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/partitions/partition_types-1.html
Partition types
..........Quote.....................
55 EZ-Drive

EZ-Drive is another disk manager (by MicroHouse, 1992). Linux kernel
versions older than 1.3.29 do not coexist with EZD. (On 990323
MicroHouse International was acquired by EarthWeb MicroHouse Solutions
split off and changed its name into StorageSoft. MicroHouse Development
split off and changed its name into ImageCast. It is StorageSoft that
now markets EZDrive and DrivePro.)
..........EOQ.......................

Can it really only be necessary to change that "55" to a normal FAT
code? Here is what MBRWork shows to me for my slave drive, run from a
Windows DOS box. "c" is a primary FAT32 partition, & "f" is an extended
partition...

----------------------------------------------------------------------
MBR Partition Information (HD1):
----------------------------------------------------------------------
¦ 0: ¦ 0 ¦ 1 1 0 ¦ c ¦ 239 63 1021 ¦ 63 ¦
16374897 ¦
¦ 1: ¦ 0 ¦ 239 63 1021 ¦ f ¦ 239 63 1021 ¦ 16374960 ¦ 61795440 ¦
¦ 2: ¦ 0 ¦ 0 0 0 ¦ 0 ¦ 0 0 0 ¦ 0
¦ 0 ¦
¦ 3: ¦ 0 ¦ 0 0 0 ¦ 0 ¦ 0 0 0 ¦ 0
¦ 0 ¦
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is what that URL says about them. Obviously, it was written before
the advent of Win98, though...

0c WIN95 OSR2 FAT32, LBA-mapped
Extended-INT13 equivalent of 0b.

0f WIN95: Extended partition, LBA-mapped
Windows 95 uses 0e and 0f as the extended-INT13 equivalents of 06 and
05. For the problems this causes, see Possible data loss with LBA and
INT13 extensions. (Especially when going back and forth between MSDOS
and Windows 95, strange things may happen with a type 0e or 0f
partition.) Windows NT does not recognize the four W95 types 0b, 0c, 0e,
0f ( Win95 Partition Types Not Recognized by Windows NT). DRDOS 7.03
does not support this type (but DRDOS 7.04 does).


| The point of the Quantum software is to map the disk
| sectors to hardware parameters that the BIOS can understand. Simply
| rewriting the MBR without that particular mapping in place could
| write the MBR to the 'wrong' physical location, possibly overwriting
| data such as FAT. Then again, it may not, as the MBR location is
| often the same between the mapped and unmapped states. That may be
| why the drive appears to be partially accessible (and why I was
| careful to warn against allowing anything to write to it). But when
| it's accessed by the OS, if the correct mapping is not happening then
| the FAT will not make sense (even if it hasn't been corrupted) as the
| logical sector numbers used in the FAT will map to different physical
| locations (and also presumably won't match the partition
| information).
|
| The Quantum software might have a facility for undoing the mapping -
| that is, physically re-arranging the data in the sectors to match the
| default hardware characteristics - but in my experience it is easier
| to copy off the data and rebuild the drive from scratch. Note that I
| was careful not to call this 'uninstalling' - the management software
| is not currently installed, and my guess is that's the problem. What
| we are trying to achieve is to undo the special sector numbering
| arrangement of that drive. It's not just terminology - it's an
| important distinction because there is a significant amount of
| complex data shuffling needed.
|
| Also, we have to first confirm that this is actually the problem.
| --
| Jeff Richards
| MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
| "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message
| news:%23ZTEecbJJHA.740@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
|> Jeff Richards wrote:
|> | It sure sounds like the drive was set up to be managed by the
|> | Quantum software. At this stage, that's a better assumption than
|> | some difference in the LBA (which is what could have happened as a
|> | result of needing to make special settings in the original BIOS).
|> |
|> | If you can find the Quantum software then have a good look through
|> | the documentation to get an idea of what's needed to access that
|> | disk. The process will involve installing the drive management
|> | software to the boot disk (C in your case) WITHOUT going through
|> | the drive setup procedure for the drive that is going to be
|> | managed - that is, without doing the equivalent of FDISK on the
|> | second drive. You might even be able to do the setup without
|> | having that drive connected to the machine, just to be safe. It
|> | will probably complain about no having any drives that need to be
|> | managed, but should still install. Once the software is running
|> | it only interferes with those drives that require it. When you
|> | then reconnect the old drive, it should then be recognised as a
|> | managed drive and should become accessible.
|> |
|> | So the important thing to keep in mind is that the software has two
|> | parts. The disk preparation part for the drive to be managed, which
|> | has already been done and you definitely do not want to repeat, and
|> | the management software installation part (to the boot drive) which
|> | you do want to repeat. The documentation for the software should
|> | cover that option.
|> |
|> | It may be possible to use the Quantum software to prepare a boot
|> | floppy that will give you DOS access to that drive. That will at
|> | least prove what the problem is, and you could, if necessary,
|> | retrieve your data through DOS.
|> |
|> | In the meantime, be very careful that you don't do anything that
|> | might write to that old disk. In its current state it looks usable
|> | in some circumstances, but if data gets written to the disk then it
|> | may be written using different partitioning parameters to those it
|> | is actually set up with, and the file system will be corrupted. Be
|> | particularly careful of anything that wants to try and 'repair' the
|> | disk (as distinct from simply examining, displaying or copying off
|> | the contents) as the repair could destroy all the data.
|>
|> Since mikesmith's new Compaq 5000US motherboard/BIOS sees the full 20
|> GBs of the Maxblast drive (as he reports & I've seen it in a NET ad),
|> isn't it worth a try to uninstall Maxbast? And I wonder whether
|> MBRWork could do that with its Option 8. If Option 8 doesn't show
|> up, I wonder whether this would do it...?...
|>
|> http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/utilities.html MBRWork
|> Free MBR utility.
|>
|> (a) Option 7 - Work with multiple hard drives.
|> Get to drive 1, the bad one.
|> (b) Option 1-- Backup the first track on a hard drive.
|> Makes a backup of the current MBR & EMBR.
|> Then, Option 2 can undo all of the following...
|> (c) Option 3 - Reset the EMBR area to all zeros.
|> A generally unused area between the MBR & end of first track,
|> but it can hold a drive overlay or 3rd party boot manager.
|> (d) Option 4 - Reset the MBR area to all zeros.
|> This wipes the MBR table holding the dimensions of all partitions
|> on that drive, if more than one. But it leaves all other drives
|> intact.
|> (e) Select option A to recover partition(s).
|> This generates partition dimensions into the MBR,
|> getting them somehow from the partition data area itself.
|> Sounds like it ONLY will work, IF the MBR has been mussed,
|> & everything else is fine.
|> (f) Option 5 - Install standard MBR Code
|> This will put boot code into the MBR.
|>
|> .......Quote MBRWork Readme .......
|> MBRWork - Freeware utility to perform some common and uncommon MBR
|> and disk functions. Provided As-Is.
|>
|> It can perform the following:
|>
|> 1 - Backup the first track on a hard drive.
|> 2 - Restore the backup file.
|> 3 - Reset the EMBR area to all zeros.
|> 4 - Reset the MBR are to all zeros.
|> 5 - Install standard MBR Code
|> 6 - Set a partition active (avail on the command line too)
|> 7 - Work with multiple hard drives.
|> 8 - Remove EZ-Drive (You must boot directly to a diskette [bypassing
|> ez-drive] for this option to show)
|> 9 - Edit MBR partition entry values.
|> A - If no partitions exist in the MBR and no EMBR exists then this
|> option will allow you to recover lost FAT, HPFS, NTFS, and
|> Extended partitions.
|> C - Capture up to 64 disk sectors to a file.
|> R - Restore up to 64 disk sectors from a file. This feature should
|> only be used by those who completely understand what they are
|> doing!
|> T - Transfer/Copy sectors from disk to disk. This feature should
|> only be used by those who completely understand what they are
|> doing!
|> P - Compare sectors.
|> .....EOQ... MBRWork Readme .............

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcrrcp@netzero.net

 

[mikesmith]

hey jeff sorry i havent got to you in a while..i had some personal family
matters to tend to
i glanced over what you wrote to me..
and i'll try and read it in more detail as soon as i can..
yeah its kind of hard making sense of some of it..
and it may take me a while to try and figure it out...
if i can...
just want you to know im going to respond to it..
and let you know the out come..
and im not just going to dissaper...
just have to take care of other things..
thanks for all your trying to do..
i should respond in a few days..
plus a day or two to try figure what you wrote..
yeah thanks for even trying to help here..
yeah thanks a million buddy..
talk to you soon as possible

"PCR" wrote:

> Jeff Richards wrote:
> | I have not used the process you describe, but I think it is unlikely
> | to work.
>
> Yea, I haven't used it either. And I haven't yet found an instance of
> anyone having used it for this purpose (but I'm sure some must exist
> somewhere). And I'd hate to see mikesmith waste his Quantum Fireball.
>
> BUT Terabyte has deemed it possible to put an Option 8 into MBRWork (a
> little 26KB program), & Terabyte usually is quite good. Therefore, it
> must be possible to do it-- but what really needs to be done?
>
> Is it as you fear that something unusal has been done to the structure
> of the partition (maybe the FAT tables)? Or can it be all is well with
> that-- & only the MBR has been altered? Then, into the MBR boot code was
> inserted a call to the Quantum DDO that kind of supplements BIOS to
> understand LBA. The MBR table (& the FAT tables) could be a normal one
> that includes LBA information. However, looks like the partition type(s)
> is altered, maybe to...
>
> http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/partitions/partition_types-1.html
> Partition types
> ..........Quote.....................
> 55 EZ-Drive
>
> EZ-Drive is another disk manager (by MicroHouse, 1992). Linux kernel
> versions older than 1.3.29 do not coexist with EZD. (On 990323
> MicroHouse International was acquired by EarthWeb MicroHouse Solutions
> split off and changed its name into StorageSoft. MicroHouse Development
> split off and changed its name into ImageCast. It is StorageSoft that
> now markets EZDrive and DrivePro.)
> ..........EOQ.......................
>
> Can it really only be necessary to change that "55" to a normal FAT
> code? Here is what MBRWork shows to me for my slave drive, run from a
> Windows DOS box. "c" is a primary FAT32 partition, & "f" is an extended
> partition...
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> MBR Partition Information (HD1):
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ¦ 0: ¦ 0 ¦ 1 1 0 ¦ c ¦ 239 63 1021 ¦ 63 ¦
> 16374897 ¦
> ¦ 1: ¦ 0 ¦ 239 63 1021 ¦ f ¦ 239 63 1021 ¦ 16374960 ¦ 61795440 ¦
> ¦ 2: ¦ 0 ¦ 0 0 0 ¦ 0 ¦ 0 0 0 ¦ 0
> ¦ 0 ¦
> ¦ 3: ¦ 0 ¦ 0 0 0 ¦ 0 ¦ 0 0 0 ¦ 0
> ¦ 0 ¦
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Here is what that URL says about them. Obviously, it was written before
> the advent of Win98, though...
>
> 0c WIN95 OSR2 FAT32, LBA-mapped
> Extended-INT13 equivalent of 0b.
>
> 0f WIN95: Extended partition, LBA-mapped
> Windows 95 uses 0e and 0f as the extended-INT13 equivalents of 06 and
> 05. For the problems this causes, see Possible data loss with LBA and
> INT13 extensions. (Especially when going back and forth between MSDOS
> and Windows 95, strange things may happen with a type 0e or 0f
> partition.) Windows NT does not recognize the four W95 types 0b, 0c, 0e,
> 0f ( Win95 Partition Types Not Recognized by Windows NT). DRDOS 7.03
> does not support this type (but DRDOS 7.04 does).
>
>
> | The point of the Quantum software is to map the disk
> | sectors to hardware parameters that the BIOS can understand. Simply
> | rewriting the MBR without that particular mapping in place could
> | write the MBR to the 'wrong' physical location, possibly overwriting
> | data such as FAT. Then again, it may not, as the MBR location is
> | often the same between the mapped and unmapped states. That may be
> | why the drive appears to be partially accessible (and why I was
> | careful to warn against allowing anything to write to it). But when
> | it's accessed by the OS, if the correct mapping is not happening then
> | the FAT will not make sense (even if it hasn't been corrupted) as the
> | logical sector numbers used in the FAT will map to different physical
> | locations (and also presumably won't match the partition
> | information).
> |
> | The Quantum software might have a facility for undoing the mapping -
> | that is, physically re-arranging the data in the sectors to match the
> | default hardware characteristics - but in my experience it is easier
> | to copy off the data and rebuild the drive from scratch. Note that I
> | was careful not to call this 'uninstalling' - the management software
> | is not currently installed, and my guess is that's the problem. What
> | we are trying to achieve is to undo the special sector numbering
> | arrangement of that drive. It's not just terminology - it's an
> | important distinction because there is a significant amount of
> | complex data shuffling needed.
> |
> | Also, we have to first confirm that this is actually the problem.
> | --
> | Jeff Richards
> | MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
> | "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message
> | news:%23ZTEecbJJHA.740@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> |> Jeff Richards wrote:
> |> | It sure sounds like the drive was set up to be managed by the
> |> | Quantum software. At this stage, that's a better assumption than
> |> | some difference in the LBA (which is what could have happened as a
> |> | result of needing to make special settings in the original BIOS).
> |> |
> |> | If you can find the Quantum software then have a good look through
> |> | the documentation to get an idea of what's needed to access that
> |> | disk. The process will involve installing the drive management
> |> | software to the boot disk (C in your case) WITHOUT going through
> |> | the drive setup procedure for the drive that is going to be
> |> | managed - that is, without doing the equivalent of FDISK on the
> |> | second drive. You might even be able to do the setup without
> |> | having that drive connected to the machine, just to be safe. It
> |> | will probably complain about no having any drives that need to be
> |> | managed, but should still install. Once the software is running
> |> | it only interferes with those drives that require it. When you
> |> | then reconnect the old drive, it should then be recognised as a
> |> | managed drive and should become accessible.
> |> |
> |> | So the important thing to keep in mind is that the software has two
> |> | parts. The disk preparation part for the drive to be managed, which
> |> | has already been done and you definitely do not want to repeat, and
> |> | the management software installation part (to the boot drive) which
> |> | you do want to repeat. The documentation for the software should
> |> | cover that option.
> |> |
> |> | It may be possible to use the Quantum software to prepare a boot
> |> | floppy that will give you DOS access to that drive. That will at
> |> | least prove what the problem is, and you could, if necessary,
> |> | retrieve your data through DOS.
> |> |
> |> | In the meantime, be very careful that you don't do anything that
> |> | might write to that old disk. In its current state it looks usable
> |> | in some circumstances, but if data gets written to the disk then it
> |> | may be written using different partitioning parameters to those it
> |> | is actually set up with, and the file system will be corrupted. Be
> |> | particularly careful of anything that wants to try and 'repair' the
> |> | disk (as distinct from simply examining, displaying or copying off
> |> | the contents) as the repair could destroy all the data.
> |>
> |> Since mikesmith's new Compaq 5000US motherboard/BIOS sees the full 20
> |> GBs of the Maxblast drive (as he reports & I've seen it in a NET ad),
> |> isn't it worth a try to uninstall Maxbast? And I wonder whether
> |> MBRWork could do that with its Option 8. If Option 8 doesn't show
> |> up, I wonder whether this would do it...?...
> |>
> |> http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/utilities.html MBRWork
> |> Free MBR utility.
> |>
> |> (a) Option 7 - Work with multiple hard drives.
> |> Get to drive 1, the bad one.
> |> (b) Option 1-- Backup the first track on a hard drive.
> |> Makes a backup of the current MBR & EMBR.
> |> Then, Option 2 can undo all of the following...
> |> (c) Option 3 - Reset the EMBR area to all zeros.
> |> A generally unused area between the MBR & end of first track,
> |> but it can hold a drive overlay or 3rd party boot manager.
> |> (d) Option 4 - Reset the MBR area to all zeros.
> |> This wipes the MBR table holding the dimensions of all partitions
> |> on that drive, if more than one. But it leaves all other drives
> |> intact.
> |> (e) Select option A to recover partition(s).
> |> This generates partition dimensions into the MBR,
> |> getting them somehow from the partition data area itself.
> |> Sounds like it ONLY will work, IF the MBR has been mussed,
> |> & everything else is fine.
> |> (f) Option 5 - Install standard MBR Code
> |> This will put boot code into the MBR.
> |>
> |> .......Quote MBRWork Readme .......
> |> MBRWork - Freeware utility to perform some common and uncommon MBR
> |> and disk functions. Provided As-Is.
> |>
> |> It can perform the following:
> |>
> |> 1 - Backup the first track on a hard drive.
> |> 2 - Restore the backup file.
> |> 3 - Reset the EMBR area to all zeros.
> |> 4 - Reset the MBR are to all zeros.
> |> 5 - Install standard MBR Code
> |> 6 - Set a partition active (avail on the command line too)
> |> 7 - Work with multiple hard drives.
> |> 8 - Remove EZ-Drive (You must boot directly to a diskette [bypassing
> |> ez-drive] for this option to show)
> |> 9 - Edit MBR partition entry values.
> |> A - If no partitions exist in the MBR and no EMBR exists then this
> |> option will allow you to recover lost FAT, HPFS, NTFS, and
> |> Extended partitions.
> |> C - Capture up to 64 disk sectors to a file.
> |> R - Restore up to 64 disk sectors from a file. This feature should
> |> only be used by those who completely understand what they are
> |> doing!
> |> T - Transfer/Copy sectors from disk to disk. This feature should
> |> only be used by those who completely understand what they are
> |> doing!
> |> P - Compare sectors.
> |> .....EOQ... MBRWork Readme .............
>
> --
> Thanks or Good Luck,
> There may be humor in this post, and,
> Naturally, you will not sue,
> Should things get worse after this,
> PCR
> pcrrcp@netzero.net
>
>
>

 

[PCR]

mikesmith wrote:
| hey jeff sorry i havent got to you in a while..i had some personal
| family matters to tend to
| i glanced over what you wrote to me..
| and i'll try and read it in more detail as soon as i can..
| yeah its kind of hard making sense of some of it..
| and it may take me a while to try and figure it out...
| if i can...
| just want you to know im going to respond to it..
| and let you know the out come..
| and im not just going to dissaper...
| just have to take care of other things..
| thanks for all your trying to do..
| i should respond in a few days..
| plus a day or two to try figure what you wrote..
| yeah thanks for even trying to help here..
| yeah thanks a million buddy..
| talk to you soon as possible

All right, keep him/us informed.

| "PCR" wrote:
|
|> Jeff Richards wrote:
|> | I have not used the process you describe, but I think it is
|> | unlikely to work.
|>
|> Yea, I haven't used it either. And I haven't yet found an instance of
|> anyone having used it for this purpose (but I'm sure some must exist
|> somewhere). And I'd hate to see mikesmith waste his Quantum Fireball.
|>
|> BUT Terabyte has deemed it possible to put an Option 8 into MBRWork
|> (a
|> little 26KB program), & Terabyte usually is quite good. Therefore, it
|> must be possible to do it-- but what really needs to be done?
|>
|> Is it as you fear that something unusal has been done to the
|> structure
|> of the partition (maybe the FAT tables)? Or can it be all is well
|> with
|> that-- & only the MBR has been altered? Then, into the MBR boot code
|> was inserted a call to the Quantum DDO that kind of supplements BIOS
|> to
|> understand LBA. The MBR table (& the FAT tables) could be a normal
|> one
|> that includes LBA information. However, looks like the partition
|> type(s)
|> is altered, maybe to...
|>
|> http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/partitions/partition_types-1.html
|> Partition types
|> ..........Quote.....................
|> 55 EZ-Drive
|>
|> EZ-Drive is another disk manager (by MicroHouse, 1992). Linux kernel
|> versions older than 1.3.29 do not coexist with EZD. (On 990323
|> MicroHouse International was acquired by EarthWeb MicroHouse
|> Solutions
|> split off and changed its name into StorageSoft. MicroHouse
|> Development
|> split off and changed its name into ImageCast. It is StorageSoft that
|> now markets EZDrive and DrivePro.)
|> ..........EOQ.......................
|>
|> Can it really only be necessary to change that "55" to a normal FAT
|> code? Here is what MBRWork shows to me for my slave drive, run from a
|> Windows DOS box. "c" is a primary FAT32 partition, & "f" is an
|> extended partition...
|>
|> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
-
|> MBR Partition Information (HD1):
|> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
-
|> ¦ 0: ¦ 0 ¦ 1 1 0 ¦ c ¦ 239 63 1021 ¦
|> 63 ¦ 16374897 ¦
|> ¦ 1: ¦ 0 ¦ 239 63 1021 ¦ f ¦ 239 63 1021 ¦ 16374960 ¦
|> 61795440 ¦ ¦ 2: ¦ 0 ¦ 0 0 0 ¦ 0 ¦ 0 0
|> 0 ¦ 0 ¦ 0 ¦
|> ¦ 3: ¦ 0 ¦ 0 0 0 ¦ 0 ¦ 0 0 0 ¦
|> 0 ¦ 0 ¦
|> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
-
|>
|> Here is what that URL says about them. Obviously, it was written
|> before
|> the advent of Win98, though...
|>
|> 0c WIN95 OSR2 FAT32, LBA-mapped
|> Extended-INT13 equivalent of 0b.
|>
|> 0f WIN95: Extended partition, LBA-mapped
|> Windows 95 uses 0e and 0f as the extended-INT13 equivalents of 06 and
|> 05. For the problems this causes, see Possible data loss with LBA and
|> INT13 extensions. (Especially when going back and forth between MSDOS
|> and Windows 95, strange things may happen with a type 0e or 0f
|> partition.) Windows NT does not recognize the four W95 types 0b, 0c,
|> 0e, 0f ( Win95 Partition Types Not Recognized by Windows NT). DRDOS
|> 7.03
|> does not support this type (but DRDOS 7.04 does).
|>
|>
|> | The point of the Quantum software is to map the disk
|> | sectors to hardware parameters that the BIOS can understand. Simply
|> | rewriting the MBR without that particular mapping in place could
|> | write the MBR to the 'wrong' physical location, possibly
|> | overwriting data such as FAT. Then again, it may not, as the MBR
|> | location is often the same between the mapped and unmapped states.
|> | That may be why the drive appears to be partially accessible (and
|> | why I was careful to warn against allowing anything to write to
|> | it). But when it's accessed by the OS, if the correct mapping is
|> | not happening then the FAT will not make sense (even if it hasn't
|> | been corrupted) as the logical sector numbers used in the FAT will
|> | map to different physical locations (and also presumably won't
|> | match the partition information).
|> |
|> | The Quantum software might have a facility for undoing the mapping
|> | - that is, physically re-arranging the data in the sectors to
|> | match the default hardware characteristics - but in my experience
|> | it is easier to copy off the data and rebuild the drive from
|> | scratch. Note that I was careful not to call this 'uninstalling' -
|> | the management software is not currently installed, and my guess
|> | is that's the problem. What we are trying to achieve is to undo
|> | the special sector numbering arrangement of that drive. It's not
|> | just terminology - it's an important distinction because there is
|> | a significant amount of complex data shuffling needed.
|> |
|> | Also, we have to first confirm that this is actually the problem.
|> | --
|> | Jeff Richards
|> | MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
|> | "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message
|> | news:%23ZTEecbJJHA.740@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
|> |> Jeff Richards wrote:
|> |> | It sure sounds like the drive was set up to be managed by the
|> |> | Quantum software. At this stage, that's a better assumption than
|> |> | some difference in the LBA (which is what could have happened
|> |> | as a result of needing to make special settings in the original
|> |> | BIOS).
|> |> |
|> |> | If you can find the Quantum software then have a good look
|> |> | through the documentation to get an idea of what's needed to
|> |> | access that disk. The process will involve installing the drive
|> |> | management software to the boot disk (C in your case) WITHOUT
|> |> | going through the drive setup procedure for the drive that is
|> |> | going to be managed - that is, without doing the equivalent of
|> |> | FDISK on the second drive. You might even be able to do the
|> |> | setup without having that drive connected to the machine, just
|> |> | to be safe. It will probably complain about no having any
|> |> | drives that need to be managed, but should still install. Once
|> |> | the software is running it only interferes with those drives
|> |> | that require it. When you then reconnect the old drive, it
|> |> | should then be recognised as a managed drive and should become
|> |> | accessible.
|> |> |
|> |> | So the important thing to keep in mind is that the software has
|> |> | two parts. The disk preparation part for the drive to be
|> |> | managed, which has already been done and you definitely do not
|> |> | want to repeat, and the management software installation part
|> |> | (to the boot drive) which you do want to repeat. The
|> |> | documentation for the software should cover that option.
|> |> |
|> |> | It may be possible to use the Quantum software to prepare a boot
|> |> | floppy that will give you DOS access to that drive. That will
|> |> | at least prove what the problem is, and you could, if necessary,
|> |> | retrieve your data through DOS.
|> |> |
|> |> | In the meantime, be very careful that you don't do anything that
|> |> | might write to that old disk. In its current state it looks
|> |> | usable in some circumstances, but if data gets written to the
|> |> | disk then it may be written using different partitioning
|> |> | parameters to those it is actually set up with, and the file
|> |> | system will be corrupted. Be particularly careful of anything
|> |> | that wants to try and 'repair' the disk (as distinct from
|> |> | simply examining, displaying or copying off the contents) as
|> |> | the repair could destroy all the data.
|> |>
|> |> Since mikesmith's new Compaq 5000US motherboard/BIOS sees the
|> |> full 20 GBs of the Maxblast drive (as he reports & I've seen it
|> |> in a NET ad), isn't it worth a try to uninstall Maxbast? And I
|> |> wonder whether MBRWork could do that with its Option 8. If Option
|> |> 8 doesn't show up, I wonder whether this would do it...?...
|> |>
|> |> http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/utilities.html MBRWork
|> |> Free MBR utility.
|> |>
|> |> (a) Option 7 - Work with multiple hard drives.
|> |> Get to drive 1, the bad one.
|> |> (b) Option 1-- Backup the first track on a hard drive.
|> |> Makes a backup of the current MBR & EMBR.
|> |> Then, Option 2 can undo all of the following...
|> |> (c) Option 3 - Reset the EMBR area to all zeros.
|> |> A generally unused area between the MBR & end of first track,
|> |> but it can hold a drive overlay or 3rd party boot manager.
|> |> (d) Option 4 - Reset the MBR area to all zeros.
|> |> This wipes the MBR table holding the dimensions of all
|> |> partitions on that drive, if more than one. But it leaves all
|> |> other drives intact.
|> |> (e) Select option A to recover partition(s).
|> |> This generates partition dimensions into the MBR,
|> |> getting them somehow from the partition data area itself.
|> |> Sounds like it ONLY will work, IF the MBR has been mussed,
|> |> & everything else is fine.
|> |> (f) Option 5 - Install standard MBR Code
|> |> This will put boot code into the MBR.
|> |>
|> |> .......Quote MBRWork Readme .......
|> |> MBRWork - Freeware utility to perform some common and uncommon MBR

|> |> and disk functions. Provided As-Is.
|> |>
|> |> It can perform the following:
|> |>
|> |> 1 - Backup the first track on a hard drive.
|> |> 2 - Restore the backup file.
|> |> 3 - Reset the EMBR area to all zeros.
|> |> 4 - Reset the MBR are to all zeros.
|> |> 5 - Install standard MBR Code
|> |> 6 - Set a partition active (avail on the command line too)
|> |> 7 - Work with multiple hard drives.
|> |> 8 - Remove EZ-Drive (You must boot directly to a diskette
|> |> [bypassing ez-drive] for this option to show)
|> |> 9 - Edit MBR partition entry values.
|> |> A - If no partitions exist in the MBR and no EMBR exists then this
|> |> option will allow you to recover lost FAT, HPFS, NTFS, and
|> |> Extended partitions.
|> |> C - Capture up to 64 disk sectors to a file.
|> |> R - Restore up to 64 disk sectors from a file. This feature
|> |> should only be used by those who completely understand what
|> |> they are
|> |> doing!
|> |> T - Transfer/Copy sectors from disk to disk. This feature should
|> |> only be used by those who completely understand what they are
|> |> doing!
|> |> P - Compare sectors.
|> |> .....EOQ... MBRWork Readme .............
|>
|> --
|> Thanks or Good Luck,
|> There may be humor in this post, and,
|> Naturally, you will not sue,
|> Should things get worse after this,
|> PCR
|> pcrrcp@netzero.net

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcrrcp@netzero.net

 

[Jeff Richards]

That's OK - I'm watching.

Don't forget that we haven't proved that we know what the problem is.
Although a missing disk manager seems most likely to me, it's still possible
that the problem has an entirely different cause.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"mikesmith" <mikesmith@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:5384C84A-1266-42E3-981B-F9638EFF6961@microsoft.com...
> hey jeff sorry i havent got to you in a while..i had some personal family
> matters to tend to
> i glanced over what you wrote to me..
> and i'll try and read it in more detail as soon as i can..
> yeah its kind of hard making sense of some of it..
> and it may take me a while to try and figure it out...
> if i can...
> just want you to know im going to respond to it..
> and let you know the out come..
> and im not just going to dissaper...
> just have to take care of other things..
> thanks for all your trying to do..
> i should respond in a few days..
> plus a day or two to try figure what you wrote..
> yeah thanks for even trying to help here..
> yeah thanks a million buddy..
> talk to you soon as possible
>