CD Player Questions

[Frog]

I presently have two CD drives installed on my computer - Plextor
CD-R PX-W1210A and Samsung CD-Rom SCR-3230. I also have an IOMEGA ZIP
100 drive on this system in addition to a floppy A drive and the hard
drive. Here is the layout for these devices as noted in the BIOS:

Primary Master - [ST330621A]

Primary Slave - IOMEGA ZIP 100

Secondary Master - PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1210A

Secondary Slave - SAMSUNG SCR-3230

FYI, my mother board is ASUS A7V133.

Now for my questions:

---I would like to have the system at bootup check the drives in this
order: A Drive (floppy), PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1210A, and then continue to
normal boot procedures. How do I make this happen?

---Only one (PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1210A) of my two CD players automatically
starts when a CD is placed in the system. Is there some way to make
both CD players automatically start when a CD placed in the system?

---I presently have an external hard drive connected to my system via
USB port. On this external hard drive lives my system backup. Will my
system look for this external hard drive (following a complete hard
drive formatting)should I have to resort to reinstalling this backup.
If not, what steps do I take to make it accessible to a newly formatted
hard drive?

(((NOTE: I recently had a computer melt-down. This problem caused me to
format the 120GB Hard Drive that was originally installed in my
system. After several attempts to resolve this problem, I finally
reverted to my old 30GB Hard Drive. It, too, went through a melt-down
that caused me to format it also and install a backup made May 2006 on
this system. Many have helped me get this hard drive up and working
again. Yes, I have a few cleanup tasks to complete before this drive is
back to the way I would like it to be. During this process, I lost over
a year of genealogy data and family pictures. Thus, I am contemplating
temporarily removing the 30GB drive from my system and reinstalling the
formatted 120GB drive back in the system. Then, I would like to make an
attempt to read the backup data from my external 120GB hard drive back
on the internal 120GB hard drive--hoping to recover lost data files.
(((The backup on the external hard drive was made using Acronis
software. I have learned, subsequent to all of my computer problems
starting, that one of the six floppy disks needed to reinstall the
backup files from the external hard drive is faulty. Thus, I will need
to make a new set of floppies before undertaking this task---that is, if
this undertaking is possible from a USB connected hard drive.))) That
is my reason for asking about the USB connected external hard drive above.

Thanks for any help sent my way on any of the above. Without the help
of individuals on this group, I would be in deep trouble at this point.
Thanks again and again for helping me and all of us that get stumped
by our computers and their problems.

Frog

 

[Don Phillipson]

"Frog" <frog@pond.com> wrote in message
news:eYth09H%23HHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> ---I would like to have the system at bootup check the drives in this
> order: A Drive (floppy), PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1210A, and then continue to
> normal boot procedures. How do I make this happen?

1. Boot drive source order is governed by BIOS settings.
Interrupt the reboot process with the right key (usually DELete)
and find your way to the right submenu of the BIOS menu.
Mine is under / Boot and is named Boot Devices Priority.
BIOS menus in ASUS MBs usually rotate a series of
devices (e.g. floppy, HDD, CD) when you key + (plus) to
change an item. But (undocumented feature) the DELete
key usually removes from the series a device from which
you plan never to boot.

2. You will need also to configure your HDD C:
[ST330621A] as third in the boot drive sequence, after
the floppy and CD. This way you get a normal boot
from the HDD when those removable drives are empty.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

 

[dadiOH]

Frog wrote:
> I presently have two CD drives installed on my computer -
> Plextor CD-R PX-W1210A and Samsung CD-Rom SCR-3230. I also have an
> IOMEGA ZIP 100 drive on this system in addition to a floppy A drive
> and the hard drive. Here is the layout for these devices as noted
> in the BIOS:
>
> Primary Master - [ST330621A]
>
> Primary Slave - IOMEGA ZIP 100
>
> Secondary Master - PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1210A
>
> Secondary Slave - SAMSUNG SCR-3230
>
> FYI, my mother board is ASUS A7V133.
>
> Now for my questions:
>
> ---I would like to have the system at bootup check the drives in
> this order: A Drive (floppy), PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1210A, and then
> continue to normal boot procedures. How do I make this happen?

By setting the desired boot order in BIOS. Pointless to have the CD
as a boot device unless you plan to put bootable discs in it.
_____________

> ---Only one (PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1210A) of my two CD players
> automatically starts when a CD is placed in the system. Is there
> some way to make
> both CD players automatically start when a CD placed in the system?

Device manager
Properties of the drive
Tick "auto-notification"

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

 

[Frog]

Don Phillipson wrote:
> "Frog" <frog@pond.com> wrote in message
> news:eYth09H%23HHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>
>> ---I would like to have the system at bootup check the drives in this
>> order: A Drive (floppy), PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1210A, and then continue to
>> normal boot procedures. How do I make this happen?
>
> 1. Boot drive source order is governed by BIOS settings.
> Interrupt the reboot process with the right key (usually DELete)
> and find your way to the right submenu of the BIOS menu.
> Mine is under / Boot and is named Boot Devices Priority.
> BIOS menus in ASUS MBs usually rotate a series of
> devices (e.g. floppy, HDD, CD) when you key + (plus) to
> change an item. But (undocumented feature) the DELete
> key usually removes from the series a device from which
> you plan never to boot.
>
> 2. You will need also to configure your HDD C:
> [ST330621A] as third in the boot drive sequence, after
> the floppy and CD. This way you get a normal boot
> from the HDD when those removable drives are empty.
>
Thanks for helping me Don.

I did as you suggested, and the results were not what I expected. Here
is a summary of events:

I entered the BIOS, and I changed the "Boot" order as follows:

1. Removable Drive - [Legacy Floppy]
2. ATA PI CD_ROM - [PLEXTOR CD-R [X-W]
3. IDE HARD DRIVE - [ST330621A]
4. Other Boot Device - [INT 18 Device (Netw

I then clicked F10 + YES to save my changes and to restart my computer.
The computer restarted with no difficulties. I again visited the
Device Manager to see if all was well there--it was not. Here is what I
found:

---The SAMSUNG SCR-3230 CD player was totally gone.
---The PLEXTOR CD-R PX-1210A was there with a red X on it. The Plextor
"Device status" was as follows: "This device is not working properly
because a device it depends on, Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo),
has been dramatically disabled. To view the properties for Secondary
IDE Controller (dual fifo), click Properties."
---The Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo) had a yellow ! mark on it.
The "Device status" for this entry follows: "This device is either not
present, not working properly, or does not have all the drivers
installed."

I next made a visit to Safe Mode/Device Manager. Both CD players were
listed with no red X noted, and the Secondary IDE Controller did not
have the yellow ! mark on it. The message under the CD players stated:
Status is not available when Windows is running in Safe Mode.

Lastly, I opened the BIOS and put the "BOOT" sequence back as it was
before. A visit to the Device Manager in Normal and Safe Mode found
both CD players listed, and there were no indications of any problems
(no red X or yellow ! mark).

Now, I am back to where I started...the boot sequence does not include
my CD player.

Help!

Frog

 

[Frog]

Thanks for the help dadiOH. See comments interspersed in message below.

dadiOH wrote:
> Frog wrote:
>> I presently have two CD drives installed on my computer -
>> Plextor CD-R PX-W1210A and Samsung CD-Rom SCR-3230. I also have an
>> IOMEGA ZIP 100 drive on this system in addition to a floppy A drive
>> and the hard drive. Here is the layout for these devices as noted
>> in the BIOS:
>>
>> Primary Master - [ST330621A]
>>
>> Primary Slave - IOMEGA ZIP 100
>>
>> Secondary Master - PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1210A
>>
>> Secondary Slave - SAMSUNG SCR-3230
>>
>> FYI, my mother board is ASUS A7V133.
>>
>> Now for my questions:
>>
>> ---I would like to have the system at bootup check the drives in
>> this order: A Drive (floppy), PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1210A, and then
>> continue to normal boot procedures. How do I make this happen?
>
> By setting the desired boot order in BIOS. Pointless to have the CD
> as a boot device unless you plan to put bootable discs in it.

I tried making BIOS changes, that you and Don suggested. Please see the
results of these BIOS changes included in my reply to Don Phillipson
(this thread).
> _____________
>
>> ---Only one (PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1210A) of my two CD players
>> automatically starts when a CD is placed in the system. Is there
>> some way to make
>> both CD players automatically start when a CD placed in the system?
>
> Device manager
> Properties of the drive
> Tick "auto-notification"

I did as you suggested, and both CD players already had a Tick in
auto-notification. I don't understand why one works and the other does
not.

Help!

Frog
>

 

[Don Phillipson]

"Frog" <frog@pond.com> wrote in message
news:uqVn9CL%23HHA.980@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Don Phillipson wrote:
> > "Frog" <frog@pond.com> wrote in message
> > news:eYth09H%23HHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> >
> >> ---I would like to have the system at bootup check the drives in this
> >> order: A Drive (floppy), PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1210A, and then continue to
> >> normal boot procedures. How do I make this happen?
> >
> > 1. Boot drive source order is governed by BIOS settings.
> > Interrupt the reboot process with the right key (usually DELete)
> > and find your way to the right submenu of the BIOS menu.
> > Mine is under / Boot and is named Boot Devices Priority.
> > BIOS menus in ASUS MBs usually rotate a series of
> > devices (e.g. floppy, HDD, CD) when you key + (plus) to
> > change an item. But (undocumented feature) the DELete
> > key usually removes from the series a device from which
> > you plan never to boot.
> >
> > 2. You will need also to configure your HDD C:
> > [ST330621A] as third in the boot drive sequence, after
> > the floppy and CD. This way you get a normal boot
> > from the HDD when those removable drives are empty.
> >
> Thanks for helping me Don.
>
> I did as you suggested, and the results were not what I expected. Here
> is a summary of events:
>
> I entered the BIOS, and I changed the "Boot" order as follows:
>
> 1. Removable Drive - [Legacy Floppy]
> 2. ATA PI CD_ROM - [PLEXTOR CD-R [X-W]
> 3. IDE HARD DRIVE - [ST330621A]
> 4. Other Boot Device - [INT 18 Device (Netw
>
> I then clicked F10 + YES to save my changes and to restart my computer.
> The computer restarted with no difficulties. I again visited the
> Device Manager to see if all was well there--it was not. Here is what I
> found:
>
> ---The SAMSUNG SCR-3230 CD player was totally gone.
> ---The PLEXTOR CD-R PX-1210A was there with a red X on it. The Plextor
> "Device status" was as follows: "This device is not working properly
> because a device it depends on, Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo),
> has been dramatically disabled. To view the properties for Secondary
> IDE Controller (dual fifo), click Properties."
> ---The Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo) had a yellow ! mark on it.
> The "Device status" for this entry follows: "This device is either not
> present, not working properly, or does not have all the drivers
> installed."
>
> I next made a visit to Safe Mode/Device Manager. Both CD players were
> listed with no red X noted, and the Secondary IDE Controller did not
> have the yellow ! mark on it. The message under the CD players stated:
> Status is not available when Windows is running in Safe Mode.
>
> Lastly, I opened the BIOS and put the "BOOT" sequence back as it was
> before. A visit to the Device Manager in Normal and Safe Mode found
> both CD players listed, and there were no indications of any problems
> (no red X or yellow ! mark).
>
> Now, I am back to where I started...the boot sequence does not include
> my CD player.

When you boot OK with any hardware device missing,
the first cure is to remove that device from / Control Panel / System
and reboot, with the intention that Win98 will find the device as
"New Hardware" and reinstal drivers if needed (not usual for
CD RO drives.)

Your message seems to say IDE#2 malfunctions when the
boot drive sequence includes a CD drive on IDE#2 but IDE#2
behaves OK when boot drive sequence excludes CD drives.
I cannot think why. Your other followup says both drives
are set to Autoload but the Samsung RO drive does not do
this. Perhaps this drive is defective.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

 

[Brian A.]

"Frog" <frog@pond.com> wrote in message
news:uqVn9CL%23HHA.980@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Don Phillipson wrote:
>> "Frog" <frog@pond.com> wrote in message
>> news:eYth09H%23HHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>
>>> ---I would like to have the system at bootup check the drives in this
>>> order: A Drive (floppy), PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1210A, and then continue to
>>> normal boot procedures. How do I make this happen?
>>
>> 1. Boot drive source order is governed by BIOS settings.
>> Interrupt the reboot process with the right key (usually DELete)
>> and find your way to the right submenu of the BIOS menu.
>> Mine is under / Boot and is named Boot Devices Priority.
>> BIOS menus in ASUS MBs usually rotate a series of
>> devices (e.g. floppy, HDD, CD) when you key + (plus) to
>> change an item. But (undocumented feature) the DELete
>> key usually removes from the series a device from which
>> you plan never to boot.
>>
>> 2. You will need also to configure your HDD C:
>> [ST330621A] as third in the boot drive sequence, after
>> the floppy and CD. This way you get a normal boot
>> from the HDD when those removable drives are empty.
>>
> Thanks for helping me Don.
>
> I did as you suggested, and the results were not what I expected. Here is a
> summary of events:
>
> I entered the BIOS, and I changed the "Boot" order as follows:
>
> 1. Removable Drive - [Legacy Floppy]
> 2. ATA PI CD_ROM - [PLEXTOR CD-R [X-W]
> 3. IDE HARD DRIVE - [ST330621A]
> 4. Other Boot Device - [INT 18 Device (Netw

Number 4's lost its tail. From what's present it appears to be a network device.

>
> I then clicked F10 + YES to save my changes and to restart my computer. The
> computer restarted with no difficulties. I again visited the Device Manager to see
> if all was well there--it was not. Here is what I found:
>
> ---The SAMSUNG SCR-3230 CD player was totally gone.
> ---The PLEXTOR CD-R PX-1210A was there with a red X on it. The Plextor "Device
> status" was as follows: "This device is not working properly because a device it
> depends on, Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo), has been dramatically disabled.
> To view the properties for Secondary IDE Controller (dual fifo), click Properties."
> ---The Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo) had a yellow ! mark on it. The "Device
> status" for this entry follows: "This device is either not present, not working
> properly, or does not have all the drivers installed."

Drivers are either not installed or corrupt. You need to uninstall both of all
controllers and drives listed in Safe Mode > DM.

>
> I next made a visit to Safe Mode/Device Manager. Both CD players were listed with
> no red X noted, and the Secondary IDE Controller did not have the yellow ! mark on
> it. The message under the CD players stated: Status is not available when Windows
> is running in Safe Mode.

Since Safe Mode is basically used for tshooting it only loads the minimal drivers
needed to run. Most of your hardware will not have the drivers loaded, the exception
being only the essentials.

>
> Lastly, I opened the BIOS and put the "BOOT" sequence back as it was before. A
> visit to the Device Manager in Normal and Safe Mode found both CD players listed,
> and there were no indications of any problems (no red X or yellow ! mark).

Appears to me that the registry may be corrupt and confused, at least in the
hardware enum on which drive is which and which drive is where. I can suggest what
may be deemed as a dramatic step, yet for now let's see what others have to offer.

>
> Now, I am back to where I started...the boot sequence does not include my CD
> player.

It should, but then again it doesn't really matter. If you want to use either of
the CD drives for what I suspect is to run a recovery/restore disk, startup the
machine with a DOS boot disk that has CD support.
Another thing to try would be to disconnect any/all devices you don't need when
booting with a recovery/restore disk. One thing I don't understand is your mention
of Six Floppies used for ATI recovery. Why the floppies and not a Recovery CD? An
ATI Recovery Manager CD has the actual application(s) install.exe files on it. If
you create the CD with more than one application included, it boots to a selection
window where you choose which app to install/use. The window looks the same as when
you first run the ATI installation in Windows.



--

Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

 

[Frog]

Brian,
We meet yet again about another one of my computer problems.
Thank you very much for coming to my aid. I attempted to to do the
steps you suggested, but had no success in solving my problem. I will
enter comments in message below.

Brian A. wrote:
> "Frog" <frog@pond.com> wrote in message
> news:uqVn9CL%23HHA.980@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> Don Phillipson wrote:
>>> "Frog" <frog@pond.com> wrote in message
>>> news:eYth09H%23HHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>> ---I would like to have the system at bootup check the drives in this
>>>> order: A Drive (floppy), PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1210A, and then continue to
>>>> normal boot procedures. How do I make this happen?
>>>
>>> 1. Boot drive source order is governed by BIOS settings.
>>> Interrupt the reboot process with the right key (usually DELete)
>>> and find your way to the right submenu of the BIOS menu.
>>> Mine is under / Boot and is named Boot Devices Priority.
>>> BIOS menus in ASUS MBs usually rotate a series of
>>> devices (e.g. floppy, HDD, CD) when you key + (plus) to
>>> change an item. But (undocumented feature) the DELete
>>> key usually removes from the series a device from which
>>> you plan never to boot.
>>>
>>> 2. You will need also to configure your HDD C:
>>> [ST330621A] as third in the boot drive sequence, after
>>> the floppy and CD. This way you get a normal boot
>>> from the HDD when those removable drives are empty.
>>>
>> Thanks for helping me Don.
>>
>> I did as you suggested, and the results were not what I expected.
>> Here is a summary of events:
>>
>> I entered the BIOS, and I changed the "Boot" order as follows:
>>
>> 1. Removable Drive - [Legacy Floppy]
>> 2. ATA PI CD_ROM - [PLEXTOR CD-R [X-W]
>> 3. IDE HARD DRIVE - [ST330621A]
>> 4. Other Boot Device - [INT 18 Device (Netw
>
> Number 4's lost its tail. From what's present it appears to be a
> network device.

I checked this one out while in the BIOS today. It should read "INT18
Device (Network)". The ork) did not show in the BIOS window, but a
small window showed up when I highlighted this entry...Disabled Onboard
ATA100 BOOT Device/SCSI INT18 Device (Network).
>
>>
>> I then clicked F10 + YES to save my changes and to restart my
>> computer. The computer restarted with no difficulties. I again
>> visited the Device Manager to see if all was well there--it was not.
>> Here is what I found:
>>
>> ---The SAMSUNG SCR-3230 CD player was totally gone.
>> ---The PLEXTOR CD-R PX-1210A was there with a red X on it. The
>> Plextor "Device status" was as follows: "This device is not working
>> properly because a device it depends on, Secondary IDE controller
>> (dual fifo), has been dramatically disabled. To view the properties
>> for Secondary IDE Controller (dual fifo), click Properties."
>> ---The Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo) had a yellow ! mark on it.
>> The "Device status" for this entry follows: "This device is either not
>> present, not working properly, or does not have all the drivers
>> installed."
>
> Drivers are either not installed or corrupt. You need to uninstall
> both of all controllers and drives listed in Safe Mode > DM.

Here is where the expected did not happen. I entered Safe Mode > Device
Manager > Hard disk controllers and attempted to Remove the Primary IDE
Controller (dual fifo) entry. That resulted in my seeing the following
window:

Confirm Device Removal
Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo)
This device is part of a multi-function device, and cannot be removed
independently.
To remove this device, select and remove the multi-function parent.
This will also remove any other devices that are part of this
multi-function device.
Parent device:
No description available.

I then attempted to remove the Primary IDE controller (dual fifo) with
the same results as for the Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo).

Next, I returned to normal mode > Device Manager > Hard disk
controllers, and learned that the device for both the Primary and
Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo) were one and the same...VIA Bus
Master PCI IDE Controller.

Back to Safe Mode > Device Manager > Hard disk controllers, and I
removed VIA Bus Master PCIIDE Controller. That removal worked for that
entry. I was not permitted, however, to remove anything associated with
the Primary or the Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo) entries...same
message as observed earlier.

While in Safe Mode, I removed both CD players from Device Manager > CDROM.

I next made a visit to the BIOS, where I changed the Boot order...A
Drive, Plextor CD, and the Hard Drive. I then restarted my computer.

It indicated on start up that it was loading drivers for the VIA Bus
Master PCIIDE Controller, and then it restarted again.

Once in to normal Windows, I again made a visit to Device Manager. Both
of the CD devices were missing, and I had a yellow ! mark next to the
Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo) entry.

Back to the BIOS and changed the Boot order to A Drive, Hard Drive,
Plextor CD.

I restarted in normal Windows again, and found both CD devices and no !
mark in the Device Manager.

I think I am now back to where I was before starting these steps.


>
>>
>> I next made a visit to Safe Mode/Device Manager. Both CD players were
>> listed with no red X noted, and the Secondary IDE Controller did not
>> have the yellow ! mark on it. The message under the CD players
>> stated: Status is not available when Windows is running in Safe Mode.
>
> Since Safe Mode is basically used for tshooting it only loads the
> minimal drivers needed to run. Most of your hardware will not have the
> drivers loaded, the exception being only the essentials.

Thanks for this information. I observed this today while in Safe Mode.
Thanks.
>
>>
>> Lastly, I opened the BIOS and put the "BOOT" sequence back as it was
>> before. A visit to the Device Manager in Normal and Safe Mode found
>> both CD players listed, and there were no indications of any problems
>> (no red X or yellow ! mark).
>
> Appears to me that the registry may be corrupt and confused, at least
> in the hardware enum on which drive is which and which drive is where.


Although I am not a computer technician by any stretch, I observed some
things while this computer was in the shop that make me think you may be
correct in this assessment. Some time back, I had to take this computer
in to have a fan replaced. This process caused the technician to remove
the motherboard in order to get to the back of the board. I know he
removed all of the ribbon wires from Primary and Secondary connections
to the motherboard. I know that he was having difficulty in removing
the board, causing him to remove the ribbon wire entirely. I, however,
did not observe any problems after having this work done. The most
recent time I was in was just prior to my big melt-down. The technician
then told me that the SAMSUNG CD Device was not working properly. He
then attempted to use a new replacement CD device to see if it would
work then...it did not. He then removed/replaced the ribbon wiring from
the computer and replaced it with new wiring...that made no difference.
He then left the SAMSUNG CD out of the system. When I returned home
from this visit, the computer immediately started its meltdown. Once I
was able to connect to the Internet again, I decided to see if the
SAMSUNG CD device would work again...it did. I attempted to play a CD
in this device last night, however, and (unlike how it was immediately
after I installed it in the system) it did everything but play a sound.
I did not unplug anything, when I reinstalled the SAMSUNG CD
device...I simply found a plug on the ribbon wiring that was not in use.
That is what makes me think your thoughts about registry or wiring
problems may be a part of my problem...this from a person who knows
little about computers but is learning quickly.

> I can suggest what may be deemed as a dramatic step, yet for now let's
> see what others have to offer.
>
>>
>> Now, I am back to where I started...the boot sequence does not include
>> my CD player.
>
> It should, but then again it doesn't really matter. If you want to use
> either of the CD drives for what I suspect is to run a recovery/restore
> disk, startup the machine with a DOS boot disk that has CD support.

This is what I did, and it was a follow on step that didn't work. I
used a floppy to access my hard drive (the 120GB hard drive that is in
the drawer at the moment). I then formatted the 120GB hard drive.
After this, I used a series of floppy disks on a restart of my computer
that were made the backup...a backup that was made on another 120GB
external USB connected hard drive. I was feeding these six disks into
the A Drive, and all seemed to be going well. Well, disk 5 was found to
have an error on it that would not let me proceed further. Thus, I now
anticipate loading the software back on my system (the working 30GB hard
drive presently in my system) that was used to make the original
backup...thus, permitting me to make six new floppies...hoping that they
will work properly. If that works, I will eventually remove the 30GB
hard drive and reinstall the 120GB hard drive. I will again format the
120GB internal hard drive using the Windows generated startup floppy. I
next will restart my computer with the first of the six backup floppies
installed in the A drive and the 120GB external USB connected hard drive
plugged into the system. If all goes according to plan, I would then
read the backup from the 120GB external hard drive back on to the 120GB
internal hard drive. I know this all sounds confusing, but I hope you
can follow my plan...as I am not sure that this plan is not flawed.
That is, I'm not sure that a backup on an external USB hard drive can be
reinstalled on a newly formatted internal hard drive. Will it find the
USB connected hard drive is the question. The bottom line, I really
would like to recover my genealogy files and photos.

> Another thing to try would be to disconnect any/all devices you don't
> need when booting with a recovery/restore disk. One thing I don't
> understand is your mention of Six Floppies used for ATI recovery. Why
> the floppies and not a Recovery CD? An ATI Recovery Manager CD has the
> actual application(s) install.exe files on it. If you create the CD
> with more than one application included, it boots to a selection window
> where you choose which app to install/use. The window looks the same as
> when you first run the ATI installation in Windows.

In view of above, are you telling me that I should start with the
Windows startup floppy and then direct the system to the six floppies I
identified above? Will I be able to direct it to the external hard
drive for the backup data? I'm not quite sure I understand the
procedure you are outlining.
>
>
>
Thanks for your help and guidance...it is always appreciated.

Frog

 

[... et al.]

Frog wrote:

> Brian A. wrote:
>
>> "Frog" <frog@pond.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Frog" <frog@pond.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ---I would like to have the system at bootup check the drives in this
>>>>> order: A Drive (floppy), PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1210A, and then continue to
>>>>> normal boot procedures. How do I make this happen?

Well, that is how you have it listed in the BIOS-selection shown
below, but you said that that showed problems in the Device
Manager. Look below to see if selecting the Samsung Optical Disk
Drive (ODD) will make a difference. You originally also asked the
following. "Is there some way to make both CD players
automatically start when a CD placed in the system?" Per below,
it doesn't seem so.

[snip]


>>> Here is a summary of events:
>>>
>>> I entered the BIOS, and I changed the "Boot" order as follows:
>>>
>>> 1. Removable Drive - [Legacy Floppy]
>>> 2. ATA PI CD_ROM - [PLEXTOR CD-R [X-W]
>>> 3. IDE HARD DRIVE - [ST330621A]
>>> 4. Other Boot Device - [INT 18 Device (Netw
>>
>> Number 4's lost its tail. From what's present it appears to be a
>> network device.
>
> I checked this one out while in the BIOS today. It should read "INT18
> Device (Network)". The ork) did not show in the BIOS window, but a
> small window showed up when I highlighted this entry...Disabled Onboard
> ATA100 BOOT Device/SCSI INT18 Device (Network).

So do the same for the 'ATAPI CD-ROM' entry and you will ( most
probably ) be able to choose one or the other of the CD-Drives as
being the bootable one. The same for the 'IDE Hard Drive' entry
if you have more then one HDD. Only one of each 'type' can be
selected as bootable at the same time.

My A7V333 have two ODD's on the second IDE channel ( master and
slave ) and can use either one selected to boot from with all IDE
devices present and working in the Device Manager, so the OS on
your A7V133 seems to have 'issues'.

( And first of all, check and consider selecting 'Type: [CD-ROM]'
for the ODD's on the BIOS Setup's main page. )


--
Nah-ah. I'm staying out of this. ... Now, here's my opinion.

Please followup in the newsgroup.
E-mail address is invalid due to spam-control.

 

[Frog]

Thanks for responding to my call for help.



1. I have done several things since receiving your message, that I would
like to recap for you.

First, I got inside of the box to confirm where the ribbon wires go
from the motherboard and to what device. Here are the results of that
survey:

The plug closest to the edge of the motherboard (titled FLOPPY on
the drawing in my book) is connected to the floppy drive (A Drive).

The Secondary IDE plug (second in from the side of the motherboard) is
connected first to the SAMSUNG-3230 CD device and then to the Plextor
CD-R device.

The Primary IDE plug (third in from the side of the motherboard) is
connected first to the hard drive and then to the ZIP-100 drive.

I concluded that all devices were plugged in correctly---maybe. I say
maybe, because I see the SAMSUNG CD device lighting up on startup even
when it is listed below the hard drive during startup. I turned off my
computer, put my Windows 98SE CD in the SAMSOUNG CD device, and started
my computer. The lights flickered on the front of the CD player during
startup, but it did not run the 98SE CD. I then moved it to a position
ahead of the hard drive in the boot sequence...the results were the same
as before. I do not see the lights flicker on the front of the PLEXTOR
CD player during startup.

2. Based on your message, I made a visit to the BIOS/MAIN window. Here
is the way I found four lines of information on this page, when I
arrived---followed by the actions I took:

> Primary Mster [Auto] - I made no change to this line.

> Primary Slave [Auto] - On the second window of this entry, I changed
Auto to ZIP-100.

> Secondary Master [Auto] - On the second window of this entry, I
changed Auto to CD-ROM

> Secondary Slave [Auto] - On the second window of this entry, I
changed Auto to CD-ROM

I restarted my computer and immediately looked in Device Manager. There
I found the hard drive partitions listed, but no ZIP or CD drives were
listed. So back to the BIOS again. I changed everything back except
the Secondary Slave entry which remained CD-ROM. A restart and all of
the devices were again present in the Device Manager (no problems
noted). I put 98SE CD in the SAMSUNG device and it very slowly auto
started, and the Windows page appeared on screen. (Hurray, this device
had stopped reading and presenting information on screen several days
ago---good news). I then put the 98SE CD in the PLEXTOR device and it
quickly auto started, and the Windows page appeared on screen. Thus,
this change did make a difference with the SAMSUNG device---it again works.

3. I next visited the BIOS/BOOT page again. Here is the way this page
looked on arrival:

1. Removable Device [Legacy Floppy]
2. IDE Hard Drive {ST330621A]
3. ATAPI CD-ROM [Plextor CD-R PX-W1210A]
4. Other Boot Device [INT18 Device (Network)]

Of course, neither CD player is in the boot sequence before the hard
drive. Thus, I changed the order of these elements, and only two
combinations did not cause problems in the Device Manager. The first no
problem was as I found them above. The second was as follows:

1. Removable Device [Legacy Floppy]
2. Other Boot Device [INT18 Device (Network)]
3. IDE Hard Drive {ST330621A]
4. ATAPI CD-ROM [Plextor CD-R PX-W1210A]

This combination did not result in any problems in the Device Manager.
It, however, did not open the 98SE CD on boot-up.


I think the above is a summary of the steps I have taken in response to
the information presented in your message. I hope I did as you
suggested--if not, let me know and I will try again. I know that my
computer originally only had one CD device installed (SAMSUNG). It was
not until many years later that the second CD device was installed
(PLEXTOR). They both seemed to perform perfectly together prior to my
meltdown. No, to the best of my knowledge, a CD device has never been
in the boot sequence before the hard drive. Secondly, the SAMSUNG
device is slow and may be on its way to the grave yard---that is, unless
some setting is causing it to be slow. The technician at the shop (back
when I was having the internal hard drive installed) could not make it
work and removed it from the system. After my meltdown, I reinstalled
it, and it has worked intermittently/and started reading a CD very
slowly since that re-installation.

Question, does it make any difference which CD device is Master and
Slave? If so, what happens if I switch the ribbon wire on the back of
these two devices?

Well, that is about all I have to share with you. Let me know if I got
off base anywhere.

Thanks again for helping me.

Frog








.... et al. wrote:
> Frog wrote:
>
>> Brian A. wrote:
>>
>>> "Frog" <frog@pond.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Frog" <frog@pond.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ---I would like to have the system at bootup check the drives in this
>>>>>> order: A Drive (floppy), PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1210A, and then continue to
>>>>>> normal boot procedures. How do I make this happen?
>
> Well, that is how you have it listed in the BIOS-selection shown below,
> but you said that that showed problems in the Device Manager. Look below
> to see if selecting the Samsung Optical Disk Drive (ODD) will make a
> difference. You originally also asked the following. "Is there some way
> to make both CD players automatically start when a CD placed in the
> system?" Per below, it doesn't seem so.
>
> [snip]
>
>
>>>> Here is a summary of events:
>>>>
>>>> I entered the BIOS, and I changed the "Boot" order as follows:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Removable Drive - [Legacy Floppy]
>>>> 2. ATA PI CD_ROM - [PLEXTOR CD-R [X-W]
>>>> 3. IDE HARD DRIVE - [ST330621A]
>>>> 4. Other Boot Device - [INT 18 Device (Netw
>>>
>>> Number 4's lost its tail. From what's present it appears to be a
>>> network device.
>>
>> I checked this one out while in the BIOS today. It should read "INT18
>> Device (Network)". The ork) did not show in the BIOS window, but a
>> small window showed up when I highlighted this entry...Disabled
>> Onboard ATA100 BOOT Device/SCSI INT18 Device (Network).
>
> So do the same for the 'ATAPI CD-ROM' entry and you will ( most probably
> ) be able to choose one or the other of the CD-Drives as being the
> bootable one. The same for the 'IDE Hard Drive' entry if you have more
> then one HDD. Only one of each 'type' can be selected as bootable at the
> same time.
>
> My A7V333 have two ODD's on the second IDE channel ( master and slave )
> and can use either one selected to boot from with all IDE devices
> present and working in the Device Manager, so the OS on your A7V133
> seems to have 'issues'.
>
> ( And first of all, check and consider selecting 'Type: [CD-ROM]' for
> the ODD's on the BIOS Setup's main page. )
>
>

 

[dadiOH]

Frog wrote:

> Question, does it make any difference which CD device is Master and
> Slave? If so, what happens if I switch the ribbon wire on the back
> of these two devices?

The end terminal is master, center slave. The drives need to be
jumpered appropriately. Either drive can be master or slave.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

 

[MEB]

"dadiOH" <dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote in message
news:%23iW9Hss%23HHA.1416@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
| Frog wrote:
|
| > Question, does it make any difference which CD device is Master and
| > Slave? If so, what happens if I switch the ribbon wire on the back
| > of these two devices?
|
| The end terminal is master, center slave. The drives need to be
| jumpered appropriately. Either drive can be master or slave.
|
| --
|
| dadiOH
| ____________________________
|
| dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
| ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
| LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
| Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
|
|
|

To clarify: Choosing either IDE cable, one drive must be configured as
master, the other as slave.

IF you have set the BIOS to boot from the CD/DVD it should be configured as
a MASTER on the drive jumpers, not as slave.

The preferred [BIOS] Boot CD should be set for the MASTER CD. IF that drive
is, however, set as slave there MAY be errors regardless of the ability to
set the BIOS to the Slave drive.. so if your preferred Boot CD is presently
set as Slave, set it as the Master [on the Secondary Channel]. OR if set as
cable select, make sure it is connected to the proper cable connector. BTW,
using cable select is an *iffy* issue. Some BIOSes do not properly handle
it, particularly for booting purposes.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
________

 

[Frog]

Thanks for your help.

See comments below:

MEB wrote:
> "dadiOH" <dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote in message
> news:%23iW9Hss%23HHA.1416@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> | Frog wrote:
> |
> | > Question, does it make any difference which CD device is Master and
> | > Slave? If so, what happens if I switch the ribbon wire on the back
> | > of these two devices?
> |
> | The end terminal is master, center slave. The drives need to be
> | jumpered appropriately. Either drive can be master or slave.
> |
> | --
> |
> | dadiOH
> | ____________________________
> |
> | dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> | ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> | LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> | Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
> |
> |
> |
>
> To clarify: Choosing either IDE cable, one drive must be configured as
> master, the other as slave.

Presently,
--the Primary IDE Master (at end of cable) is the ZIP-100 device,
--the Primary IDE Slave (the plug closest to the motherboard) is the
hard drive,
--the Secondary IDE Master (at end of cable) is the PLEXTOR CD device, and
--the Secondary IDE Slave (the plug closest to the motherboard) is the
SAMSUNG CD device.

>
> IF you have set the BIOS to boot from the CD/DVD it should be configured as
> a MASTER on the drive jumpers, not as slave.

It appears that the PLEXTOR CD device is connected as a Secondary IDE
master. Thus, it should be checked during boot up when I have it listed
above the hard drive on the BIOS/Boot window. When I place it in
this order, I have problems that appear in the Device Manager.
>
> The preferred [BIOS] Boot CD should be set for the MASTER CD. IF that drive
> is, however, set as slave there MAY be errors regardless of the ability to
> set the BIOS to the Slave drive.. so if your preferred Boot CD is presently
> set as Slave, set it as the Master [on the Secondary Channel]. OR if set as
> cable select, make sure it is connected to the proper cable connector. BTW,
> using cable select is an *iffy* issue. Some BIOSes do not properly handle
> it, particularly for booting purposes.
>

 

[Frog]

Thanks for your continued help--it is appreciated.

I tried to answer both messages in one response---please see my response
to MEB's message.

dadiOH wrote:
> Frog wrote:
>
>> Question, does it make any difference which CD device is Master and
>> Slave? If so, what happens if I switch the ribbon wire on the back
>> of these two devices?
>
> The end terminal is master, center slave. The drives need to be
> jumpered appropriately. Either drive can be master or slave.
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
>
>
>

 

[Galen Somerville]

"Frog" <frog@pond.com> wrote in message news:utQUCTu%23HHA.4184@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Thanks for your continued help--it is appreciated.
>
> I tried to answer both messages in one response---please see my response
> to MEB's message.
>
> dadiOH wrote:
> > Frog wrote:
> >
> >> Question, does it make any difference which CD device is Master and
> >> Slave? If so, what happens if I switch the ribbon wire on the back
> >> of these two devices?
> >
> > The end terminal is master, center slave. The drives need to be
> > jumpered appropriately. Either drive can be master or slave.
> >
> > --
> >
> > dadiOH
> > ____________________________
> >
> > dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> > ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> > LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> > Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
> >
> >
> >
As I remember, if you are not using "Cable select" then the end connector and center connector are
just connectors. There usage depends on the Master/Slave settings of the drives plugged into them.

You don't have to keep moving your drives around just to fit master and slave correctly.

Only the floppy cable has a true "end" connector.

Galen

 

[... et al.]

Frog wrote:

> Thanks for responding to my call for help.
>

I leave your story below, but just write what i would check first.

#1) Futile exercise? Is the CD you are trying to boot from even
bootable? Unlike their WinXP CDs, and many 'Restore' CDs with
Win98SE that comes with 'Brand Name' machines from so called
OEM's ( Dell, Siemens, Acer, Compaq, etc... ), a microsoft-issued
Win98SE CD isn't bootable.

#2) Important! You write:
"Secondly, the SAMSUNG device is slow and may be on its way to
the grave yard---that is, unless some setting is causing it to be
slow. The technician at the shop (back when I was having the
internal hard drive installed) could not make it work and removed
it from the system. After my meltdown, I reinstalled it, and it
has worked intermittently/and started reading a CD very slowly
since that re-installation."
You have a CD-Drive that was removed because some person couldn't
get it to work, and it is now working only intermittently for you
and with disappearing IDE devices in the Win98 Device Manager
depending on different BIOS settings. ¡Until you have everything
else working fine, remove this device from the equation!
Disconnect Data- and Power-cables from the Samsung Drive. Have
only the Plextor CD-Drive, jumpered as master, as a single device
on the second IDE-channel.

#3) I don't know if you took apart and rebuilt the hardware in
the aftermath of its 'meltdown', if both CD-Drives perhaps are
jumpered as 'master', but you describe looking inside it now. I
would check to confirm that on each IDE-cable one device was
jumpered as master and one as slave or as master if using only a
single device (if you follow step #2 above).
Does it make any difference which CD device is Master?, you ask.
If you have the newer '80-wire' IDE-cables then see _DadiOH_and
_MEB_ , if you have the older '40-wire' cable there are in fact
two different ones behaving differently, but i think the special
'Cable Select Cable' is uncommon.
<http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/if/ide/confCS.html>
<http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/if/ide/confCable80.html>
<http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/if/ide/confCable.html>
( Maybe i've just been lucky but for me IDE devices have 'worked'
with the master in the middle or at the end, alone or with a
slave, using the standard 40-wire cables. )
Go with the advice from _DadiOH_ and _MEB_ .

#4) Primary IDE Channel ( with more info in your newer post. )
Check the jumpers on the HDD and Zip-Disk Drive. For how to
attach the Data-cable see point #3 above. And then check to see
when using 'Auto' on the BIOS Setup's main page that the HDD
'ST330621A' is found as the Primary Master.

#5) Make sure you are using a Bootable CD and try again to change
the BIOS settings to have 'ATAPI CD-ROM' before 'IDE Hard Drive'.



> 1. I have done several things since receiving your message, that I would
> like to recap for you.
>
> First, I got inside of the box to confirm where the ribbon wires go
> from the motherboard and to what device. Here are the results of that
> survey:
>
> The plug closest to the edge of the motherboard (titled FLOPPY on
> the drawing in my book) is connected to the floppy drive (A Drive).
>
> The Secondary IDE plug (second in from the side of the motherboard) is
> connected first to the SAMSUNG-3230 CD device and then to the Plextor
> CD-R device.
>
> The Primary IDE plug (third in from the side of the motherboard) is
> connected first to the hard drive and then to the ZIP-100 drive.
>
> I concluded that all devices were plugged in correctly---maybe. I say
> maybe, because I see the SAMSUNG CD device lighting up on startup even
> when it is listed below the hard drive during startup. I turned off my
> computer, put my Windows 98SE CD in the SAMSOUNG CD device, and started
> my computer. The lights flickered on the front of the CD player during
> startup, but it did not run the 98SE CD. I then moved it to a position
> ahead of the hard drive in the boot sequence...the results were the same
> as before. I do not see the lights flicker on the front of the PLEXTOR
> CD player during startup.
>
> 2. Based on your message, I made a visit to the BIOS/MAIN window. Here
> is the way I found four lines of information on this page, when I
> arrived---followed by the actions I took:
>
> > Primary Mster [Auto] - I made no change to this line.
>
> > Primary Slave [Auto] - On the second window of this entry, I changed
> Auto to ZIP-100.
>
> > Secondary Master [Auto] - On the second window of this entry, I
> changed Auto to CD-ROM
>
> > Secondary Slave [Auto] - On the second window of this entry, I
> changed Auto to CD-ROM
>
> I restarted my computer and immediately looked in Device Manager. There
> I found the hard drive partitions listed, but no ZIP or CD drives were
> listed. So back to the BIOS again. I changed everything back except
> the Secondary Slave entry which remained CD-ROM. A restart and all of
> the devices were again present in the Device Manager (no problems
> noted). I put 98SE CD in the SAMSUNG device and it very slowly auto
> started, and the Windows page appeared on screen. (Hurray, this device
> had stopped reading and presenting information on screen several days
> ago---good news). I then put the 98SE CD in the PLEXTOR device and it
> quickly auto started, and the Windows page appeared on screen. Thus,
> this change did make a difference with the SAMSUNG device---it again works.
>
> 3. I next visited the BIOS/BOOT page again. Here is the way this page
> looked on arrival:
>
> 1. Removable Device [Legacy Floppy]
> 2. IDE Hard Drive {ST330621A]
> 3. ATAPI CD-ROM [Plextor CD-R PX-W1210A]
> 4. Other Boot Device [INT18 Device (Network)]
>
> Of course, neither CD player is in the boot sequence before the hard
> drive. Thus, I changed the order of these elements, and only two
> combinations did not cause problems in the Device Manager. The first no
> problem was as I found them above. The second was as follows:
>
> 1. Removable Device [Legacy Floppy]
> 2. Other Boot Device [INT18 Device (Network)]
> 3. IDE Hard Drive {ST330621A]
> 4. ATAPI CD-ROM [Plextor CD-R PX-W1210A]
>
> This combination did not result in any problems in the Device Manager.
> It, however, did not open the 98SE CD on boot-up.
>
>
> I think the above is a summary of the steps I have taken in response to
> the information presented in your message. I hope I did as you
> suggested--if not, let me know and I will try again. I know that my
> computer originally only had one CD device installed (SAMSUNG). It was
> not until many years later that the second CD device was installed
> (PLEXTOR). They both seemed to perform perfectly together prior to my
> meltdown. No, to the best of my knowledge, a CD device has never been
> in the boot sequence before the hard drive. Secondly, the SAMSUNG
> device is slow and may be on its way to the grave yard---that is, unless
> some setting is causing it to be slow. The technician at the shop (back
> when I was having the internal hard drive installed) could not make it
> work and removed it from the system. After my meltdown, I reinstalled
> it, and it has worked intermittently/and started reading a CD very
> slowly since that re-installation.
>
> Question, does it make any difference which CD device is Master and
> Slave? If so, what happens if I switch the ribbon wire on the back of
> these two devices?
>
> Well, that is about all I have to share with you. Let me know if I got
> off base anywhere.
>
> Thanks again for helping me.
>
> Frog


--
Nah-ah. I'm staying out of this. ... Now, here's my opinion.

Please followup in the newsgroup.
E-mail address is invalid due to spam-control.

 

[Frog]

Thanks for your continued help--it's so appreciated.

Sorry for the time that it has taken me to respond to your message... I
had to feel my way through some of this information gathering. Please
let me know if I haven't answered your questions anywhere along the line.

.... et al. wrote:
> Frog wrote:
>
>> Thanks for responding to my call for help.
>>
>
> I leave your story below, but just write what i would check first.
>
> #1) Futile exercise?

I'm starting to think that it may be a futile exercise--I hope not, though.

> Is the CD you are trying to boot from even
> bootable? Unlike their WinXP CDs, and many 'Restore' CDs with Win98SE
> that comes with 'Brand Name' machines from so called OEM's ( Dell,
> Siemens, Acer, Compaq, etc... ), a microsoft-issued Win98SE CD isn't
> bootable.

My mistake on the bootable CD business. I thought the Microsoft-issued
Win98SE CD was bootable. How does the software on the Win98SE CD get
loaded on to a new computer for the first time? Oh well, that is not a
part of my present problem...something else for me to learn. I'm not
sure that I have a bootable CD to test my boot process--I will see if
one of my friends can help me with such a CD.
>
> #2) Important! You write:
> "Secondly, the SAMSUNG device is slow and may be on its way to the grave
> yard---that is, unless some setting is causing it to be slow. The
> technician at the shop (back when I was having the internal hard drive
> installed) could not make it work and removed it from the system. After
> my meltdown, I reinstalled it, and it has worked intermittently/and
> started reading a CD very slowly since that re-installation."
> You have a CD-Drive that was removed because some person couldn't get it
> to work, and it is now working only intermittently for you and with
> disappearing IDE devices in the Win98 Device Manager depending on
> different BIOS settings. ¡Until you have everything else working fine,
> remove this device from the equation! Disconnect Data- and Power-cables
> from the Samsung Drive. Have only the Plextor CD-Drive, jumpered as
> master, as a single device on the second IDE-channel.

I disconnected the Samsung device from the equation. The Plextor device
is now connected to the end connection on the ribbon cable. I then
entered the BIOS and designated the boot sequence to be the floppy,
Plextor, and then the hard drive. The computer was then restarted, and
no problems were noted in the Device Manager.

NOTE 1: Although I see no problems in the Device Manager, I'm not sure
whether the Plextor is being checked for a CD during the boot process.
I do see the yellow light showing on the front of the Plextor device
immediately after the computer is powered up. Is this an indicator
that it is looking for a bootable CD?

NOTE 2: I will start this note with the fact that I haven't yet read the
items you you suggested in your message--that will be next on my list.
Now to my NOTE 2. Master and Slave on the ribbon cable is where I am a
little lost, to say the least. Let me explain. The cable that connects
to the Secondary IDE on the motherboard is a 40 connector cable with
three connectors (one for the motherboard and two for devices). I am
confused about how to know which is Master and which is Slave. Based on
the information contained in DadiOH and MEB messages, the end would be
the Master--is that correct? The book that came with the motherboard
doesn't help with this situation---it talks about blue, gray and black
connectors. All of the connectors on my ribbon cable are black. Here
is what I found in my motherboard book:

Quote

Primary (Blue)/Secondary IDE Connectors
(40-1 pin PRIMARY ATA100 SECONDARY ATA100)
(40-1 pin PRIMARY IDE/SECONDARY IDE)
These connectors support the provided IDE hard disk ribbon cables.
Connect the cable's blue connector to the motherboard's primary
(recommended) or secondary IDE connector, and then connect the
corresponding gray connector to your UltraDMA100/UltraDMA66 slave device
(hard disk drive) and the black connector to your UltraDMA100/UltraDMA66
master device. It is recommended that non-UltraDMA100/UltraDMA66
devices be connected to the secondary IDE connector.

NOTE: UltraDMA/100 is backward compatible with DMA/66, DMA/33, and DMA
and with existing DMA devices and systems, so there is no need to
upgrade current EIDE/IDE drives and host systems.

Unquote

There is more on this page, however, it contains information about
installing two hard disks.

Well, this information would make better sense if I had a cable with
color coded connectors. As I said before, the Primary IDE is connected
to the blue Primary IDE terminal on the mother board (I'm sure of this
fact). The next connection up the cable is connected to the hard drive,
and the end connection is attached to the ZIP-100 device. The Secondary
IDE is connected to black terminal on the mother board (I'm also sure of
this fact). The next connection up the cable is not connected to any
device (was previously connected to the Samsung device), and the end
connection is attached to the Plextor device. I'm still not sure that
things are wired properly. I think they are properly connected (see
jumper comments later in this message).

>
> #3) I don't know if you took apart and rebuilt the hardware in the
> aftermath of its 'meltdown',

No, I changed nothing inside of my computer except re-placing the
120GB hard drive with the 30GB hard drive. Oh yes, and I added the
Samsung CD device back into the system--that device is again
disconnected from the system. The only changes I have made in the BIOS
was on the MAIN window (i.e., Secondary Master [Auto] - On the second
window of this entry, I changed Auto to CD-ROM) and to change the boot
sequence on the BOOT window.

> if both CD-Drives perhaps are jumpered as
> 'master', but you describe looking inside it now. I would check to
> confirm that on each IDE-cable one device was jumpered as master and one
> as slave or as master if using only a single device (if you follow step
> #2 above).
> Does it make any difference which CD device is Master?, you ask.
> If you have the newer '80-wire' IDE-cables then see _DadiOH_and _MEB_ ,
> if you have the older '40-wire' cable there are in fact two different
> ones behaving differently, but i think the special 'Cable Select Cable'
> is uncommon.

The above instructions are at the edge of my technical knowledge. Here
is what I have learned about jumpering:

30GB hard drive:
Seagate U Series 5 - Model: 8T330621A
Presently set up as Master or single drive.
Other options are: Drive is a Slave, Master with non-ATA compatible
slave, and Enables cable select.

ZIP-100 drive
Presently set up as Slave.
Other options are: Master and Cable Select.

The Samsung CD device (not presently connected to the system) is set up
as Slave.

The Plextor CD device is set up as Master.

NOTE: The 120GB hard drive that was in my computer, when I arrived home
from the computer store, does not display a setup plan. It is a Western
Digital model WD1200BB-23RDAO product. I looked at another Western
Digital hard drive (not the same model number), and, if both settings
are the same for both hard drives, it was set as Master (center two pins
jumpered). The hard drive that was originally in this system, when it
was originally assembled, was jumpered as a Slave. The ZIP-100 and the
Plextor devices were added later, so that probably changed the jumpers
at that time. Now, that is what I learned as I was living at the edge
of my technical knowledge. Hope that responds to the comments made in
your message....


> <http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/if/ide/confCS.html>
> <http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/if/ide/confCable80.html>
> <http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/if/ide/confCable.html>

I will read these ASAP.

> ( Maybe i've just been lucky but for me IDE devices have 'worked' with
> the master in the middle or at the end, alone or with a slave, using the
> standard 40-wire cables. )

My Secondary IDE employs a 40-wire cable harness, while the primary is
an 80 wire cable. I moved the Plextor on the Secondary IDE (with no
Samsung device involved) from one plug to the other and noticed no
change whatsoever. Thus, I don't think the plug connected to a device
makes a difference (my limited technical knowledge speaking). It must
be the jumpers that make the difference.

> Go with the advice from _DadiOH_ and _MEB_ .
>
> #4) Primary IDE Channel ( with more info in your newer post. )
> Check the jumpers on the HDD and Zip-Disk Drive. For how to attach the
> Data-cable see point #3 above. And then check to see when using 'Auto'
> on the BIOS Setup's main page that the HDD 'ST330621A' is found as the
> Primary Master.

The HHD ST330621A is shown on the Main page as the Primary Master with
Type Auto. I looked up what Auto means in the motherboard book, and
here is what I found:

Quote

Type [Auto]
Select [Auto] to automatically detect an IDE hard disk drive. If
automatic detection is successful, the correct values will be filled in
for the remaining fields on the sub-menu. If automatic detection fails,
your hard disk drive may be too old or too new. You can try updating
your BIOS or enter the IDE hard disk drive parameters manually.

Unquote

The above makes me wonder if I was right in changing the Samsung Device
from Auto to CD-ROM on the main page. I believe it should be Auto,
if/when I re-install this device.
>
> #5) Make sure you are using a Bootable CD and try again to change the
> BIOS settings to have 'ATAPI CD-ROM' before 'IDE Hard Drive'.

I believe you are telling me to put the Plextor in a position above the
IDE Hard Drive--is that correct? If so, that is where it is and no
problems appear in the Device Manager. It seems that my problems with
Device Manager start, when the Samsung device is added to the system.

I will try to find a disk that will test the CD device during startup.
>
>
>
>> 1. I have done several things since receiving your message, that I would
>> like to recap for you.
>>
>> First, I got inside of the box to confirm where the ribbon wires go
>> from the motherboard and to what device. Here are the results of that
>> survey:
>>
>> The plug closest to the edge of the motherboard (titled FLOPPY on
>> the drawing in my book) is connected to the floppy drive (A Drive).
>>
>> The Secondary IDE plug (second in from the side of the motherboard) is
>> connected first to the SAMSUNG-3230 CD device and then to the Plextor
>> CD-R device.
>>
>> The Primary IDE plug (third in from the side of the motherboard) is
>> connected first to the hard drive and then to the ZIP-100 drive.
>>
>> I concluded that all devices were plugged in correctly---maybe. I say
>> maybe, because I see the SAMSUNG CD device lighting up on startup even
>> when it is listed below the hard drive during startup. I turned off my
>> computer, put my Windows 98SE CD in the SAMSOUNG CD device, and started
>> my computer. The lights flickered on the front of the CD player during
>> startup, but it did not run the 98SE CD. I then moved it to a position
>> ahead of the hard drive in the boot sequence...the results were the same
>> as before. I do not see the lights flicker on the front of the PLEXTOR
>> CD player during startup.
>>
>> 2. Based on your message, I made a visit to the BIOS/MAIN window.
>> Here is the way I found four lines of information on this page, when I
>> arrived---followed by the actions I took:
>>
>> > Primary Mster [Auto] - I made no change to this line.
>>
>> > Primary Slave [Auto] - On the second window of this entry, I
>> changed Auto to ZIP-100.
>>
>> > Secondary Master [Auto] - On the second window of this entry, I
>> changed Auto to CD-ROM
>>
>> > Secondary Slave [Auto] - On the second window of this entry, I
>> changed Auto to CD-ROM
>>
>> I restarted my computer and immediately looked in Device Manager.
>> There I found the hard drive partitions listed, but no ZIP or CD
>> drives were listed. So back to the BIOS again. I changed everything
>> back except the Secondary Slave entry which remained CD-ROM. A
>> restart and all of the devices were again present in the Device
>> Manager (no problems noted). I put 98SE CD in the SAMSUNG device and
>> it very slowly auto started, and the Windows page appeared on screen.
>> (Hurray, this device had stopped reading and presenting information on
>> screen several days ago---good news). I then put the 98SE CD in the
>> PLEXTOR device and it quickly auto started, and the Windows page
>> appeared on screen. Thus, this change did make a difference with the
>> SAMSUNG device---it again works.
>>
>> 3. I next visited the BIOS/BOOT page again. Here is the way this page
>> looked on arrival:
>>
>> 1. Removable Device [Legacy Floppy]
>> 2. IDE Hard Drive {ST330621A]
>> 3. ATAPI CD-ROM [Plextor CD-R PX-W1210A]
>> 4. Other Boot Device [INT18 Device (Network)]
>>
>> Of course, neither CD player is in the boot sequence before the hard
>> drive. Thus, I changed the order of these elements, and only two
>> combinations did not cause problems in the Device Manager. The first
>> no problem was as I found them above. The second was as follows:
>>
>> 1. Removable Device [Legacy Floppy]
>> 2. Other Boot Device [INT18 Device (Network)]
>> 3. IDE Hard Drive {ST330621A]
>> 4. ATAPI CD-ROM [Plextor CD-R PX-W1210A]
>>
>> This combination did not result in any problems in the Device Manager.
>> It, however, did not open the 98SE CD on boot-up.
>>
>>
>> I think the above is a summary of the steps I have taken in response
>> to the information presented in your message. I hope I did as you
>> suggested--if not, let me know and I will try again. I know that my
>> computer originally only had one CD device installed (SAMSUNG). It
>> was not until many years later that the second CD device was installed
>> (PLEXTOR). They both seemed to perform perfectly together prior to my
>> meltdown. No, to the best of my knowledge, a CD device has never been
>> in the boot sequence before the hard drive. Secondly, the SAMSUNG
>> device is slow and may be on its way to the grave yard---that is,
>> unless some setting is causing it to be slow. The technician at the
>> shop (back when I was having the internal hard drive installed) could
>> not make it work and removed it from the system. After my meltdown, I
>> reinstalled it, and it has worked intermittently/and started reading a
>> CD very slowly since that re-installation.
>>
>> Question, does it make any difference which CD device is Master and
>> Slave? If so, what happens if I switch the ribbon wire on the back of
>> these two devices?
>>
>> Well, that is about all I have to share with you. Let me know if I
>> got off base anywhere.
>>
>> Thanks again for helping me.
>>
>> Frog
>
>

 

[glee]

Comments inline.....
"Frog" <frog@pond.com> wrote in message
news:uNtgyp9%23HHA.3400@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
>> Is the CD you are trying to boot from even
>> bootable? Unlike their WinXP CDs, and many 'Restore' CDs with Win98SE that comes
>> with 'Brand Name' machines from so called OEM's ( Dell, Siemens, Acer, Compaq,
>> etc... ), a microsoft-issued Win98SE CD isn't bootable.

A RETAIL Win98SE CD is not bootable, but many OEM Win98SE CDs are.


> My mistake on the bootable CD business. I thought the Microsoft-issued
> Win98SE CD was bootable. How does the software on the Win98SE CD get
> loaded on to a new computer for the first time?

By using a Win98 Boot floppy with CD-ROM support. Said floppy will have the
necessary CD drivers on it, and also the needed autoexec.bat and config.sys entries
to load those drivers. Once booted, the CD drive is readable, and the Win98 setup
program on it can be run.


> I'm not
> sure that I have a bootable CD to test my boot process--I will see if
> one of my friends can help me with such a CD.

You can make one with the help of the download from here:
http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/


>> #2) Important! You write:
>> "Secondly, the SAMSUNG device is slow and may be on its way to the grave
>> yard---that is, unless some setting is causing it to be slow. The technician at
>> the shop (back when I was having the internal hard drive installed) could not
>> make it work and removed it from the system. After my meltdown, I reinstalled
>> it, and it has worked intermittently/and started reading a CD very slowly since
>> that re-installation."
>> You have a CD-Drive that was removed because some person couldn't get it to work,
>> and it is now working only intermittently for you and with disappearing IDE
>> devices in the Win98 Device Manager depending on different BIOS settings. ¡Until
>> you have everything else working fine, remove this device from the equation!
>> Disconnect Data- and Power-cables from the Samsung Drive. Have only the Plextor
>> CD-Drive, jumpered as master, as a single device on the second IDE-channel.
>
> I disconnected the Samsung device from the equation. The Plextor device
> is now connected to the end connection on the ribbon cable. I then
> entered the BIOS and designated the boot sequence to be the floppy,
> Plextor, and then the hard drive. The computer was then restarted, and
> no problems were noted in the Device Manager.

I think it is fairly safe to say that the Samsung CD drive is defective, and you
should remove it and toss it into the nearest trash bin, please.

>
> NOTE 1: Although I see no problems in the Device Manager, I'm not sure
> whether the Plextor is being checked for a CD during the boot process.
> I do see the yellow light showing on the front of the Plextor device
> immediately after the computer is powered up. Is this an indicator
> that it is looking for a bootable CD?

Not necessarily. Most systems will flash the optical drive lights as part of the
boot process, as the BIOS discovers the hardware upon startup.


> NOTE 2: I will start this note with the fact that I haven't yet read the
> items you you suggested in your message--that will be next on my list.
> Now to my NOTE 2. Master and Slave on the ribbon cable is where I am a
> little lost, to say the least. Let me explain. The cable that connects
> to the Secondary IDE on the motherboard is a 40 connector cable with
> three connectors (one for the motherboard and two for devices). I am
> confused about how to know which is Master and which is Slave. Based on
> the information contained in DadiOH and MEB messages, the end would be
> the Master--is that correct? The book that came with the motherboard
> doesn't help with this situation---it talks about blue, gray and black
> connectors. All of the connectors on my ribbon cable are black.

You will usually only find blue, grey, and black connector combinations on the newer
80-wire, 40-pin cables. 40-wire, 40-pin cables will have the same color on all
three connectors, and it does not particularly matter with is used for which device.
IOW you can put the master optical drive on either connector, likewise the slave.
What matters in that scenario is that the drives are *jumpered* correctly as master
and slave. If you have only one device on the cable, it is best to use the end
connector. For consistency, I use the end connector for master even on the olde
40-wire cables, but it isn't necessary or sometimes even possible due to case
configuration.


> Here is what I found in my motherboard book:
>
> Quote
>
> Primary (Blue)/Secondary IDE Connectors
> (40-1 pin PRIMARY ATA100 SECONDARY ATA100)
> (40-1 pin PRIMARY IDE/SECONDARY IDE)
> These connectors support the provided IDE hard disk ribbon cables.
> Connect the cable's blue connector to the motherboard's primary
> (recommended) or secondary IDE connector, and then connect the
> corresponding gray connector to your UltraDMA100/UltraDMA66 slave device
> (hard disk drive) and the black connector to your UltraDMA100/UltraDMA66
> master device. It is recommended that non-UltraDMA100/UltraDMA66
> devices be connected to the secondary IDE connector.
>
> NOTE: UltraDMA/100 is backward compatible with DMA/66, DMA/33, and DMA
> and with existing DMA devices and systems, so there is no need to
> upgrade current EIDE/IDE drives and host systems.
>
> Unquote
>
> There is more on this page, however, it contains information about
> installing two hard disks.
>
> Well, this information would make better sense if I had a cable with
> color coded connectors. As I said before, the Primary IDE is connected
> to the blue Primary IDE terminal on the mother board (I'm sure of this
> fact). The next connection up the cable is connected to the hard drive,
> and the end connection is attached to the ZIP-100 device.

As long as the drives are jumpered correctly (hard drive as master, zip drive as
slave), which connector is for which does not really matter. As I said, I *prefer*
using the end for the master device, but only for consistency. With standard 40-pin
IDE cables it does not matter.


> The Secondary
> IDE is connected to black terminal on the mother board (I'm also sure of
> this fact). The next connection up the cable is not connected to any
> device (was previously connected to the Samsung device), and the end
> connection is attached to the Plextor device. I'm still not sure that
> things are wired properly. I think they are properly connected (see
> jumper comments later in this message).

That sounds fine.


>> #3) I don't know if you took apart and rebuilt the hardware in the aftermath of
>> its 'meltdown',
>
> No, I changed nothing inside of my computer except re-placing the
> 120GB hard drive with the 30GB hard drive. Oh yes, and I added the
> Samsung CD device back into the system--that device is again
> disconnected from the system. The only changes I have made in the BIOS
> was on the MAIN window (i.e., Secondary Master [Auto] - On the second
> window of this entry, I changed Auto to CD-ROM) and to change the boot
> sequence on the BOOT window.

Either setting (auto or cd-rom) should work.


>> if both CD-Drives perhaps are jumpered as
>> 'master', but you describe looking inside it now. I would check to confirm that
>> on each IDE-cable one device was jumpered as master and one as slave or as master
>> if using only a single device (if you follow step #2 above).
>> Does it make any difference which CD device is Master?, you ask.
>> If you have the newer '80-wire' IDE-cables then see _DadiOH_and _MEB_ , if you
>> have the older '40-wire' cable there are in fact two different ones behaving
>> differently, but i think the special 'Cable Select Cable' is uncommon.
>
> The above instructions are at the edge of my technical knowledge. Here
> is what I have learned about jumpering:
>
> 30GB hard drive:
> Seagate U Series 5 - Model: 8T330621A
> Presently set up as Master or single drive.
> Other options are: Drive is a Slave, Master with non-ATA compatible
> slave, and Enables cable select.

Good.


> ZIP-100 drive
> Presently set up as Slave.
> Other options are: Master and Cable Select.

Good.


> The Samsung CD device (not presently connected to the system) is set up
> as Slave.

Send this drive to the landfill or recycle it if possible.


> The Plextor CD device is set up as Master.

Good.


> NOTE: The 120GB hard drive that was in my computer, when I arrived home
> from the computer store, does not display a setup plan. It is a Western
> Digital model WD1200BB-23RDAO product. I looked at another Western
> Digital hard drive (not the same model number), and, if both settings
> are the same for both hard drives, it was set as Master (center two pins
> jumpered). The hard drive that was originally in this system, when it
> was originally assembled, was jumpered as a Slave. The ZIP-100 and the
> Plextor devices were added later, so that probably changed the jumpers
> at that time. Now, that is what I learned as I was living at the edge
> of my technical knowledge. Hope that responds to the comments made in
> your message....

Western Digital jumper settings:
http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc...Xh0PWp1bXBlciBzZXR0aW5ncw**&p_li=&p_topview=1


>> <http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/if/ide/confCS.html>
>> <http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/if/ide/confCable80.html>
>> <http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/if/ide/confCable.html>
>
> I will read these ASAP.
>
>> ( Maybe i've just been lucky but for me IDE devices have 'worked' with the master
>> in the middle or at the end, alone or with a slave, using the standard 40-wire
>> cables. )
>
> My Secondary IDE employs a 40-wire cable harness, while the primary is
> an 80 wire cable. I moved the Plextor on the Secondary IDE (with no
> Samsung device involved) from one plug to the other and noticed no
> change whatsoever. Thus, I don't think the plug connected to a device
> makes a difference (my limited technical knowledge speaking). It must
> be the jumpers that make the difference.

Yep, if you are using a standard 40-conductor IDE cable.


> snip
> The HHD ST330621A is shown on the Main page as the Primary Master with
> Type Auto. I looked up what Auto means in the motherboard book, and
> here is what I found:
> snip
> The above makes me wonder if I was right in changing the Samsung Device
> from Auto to CD-ROM on the main page. I believe it should be Auto,
> if/when I re-install this device.

The Samsung should be outside in the bin already. AFAIK either Auto or CD-ROM would
work here. Try Auto, when you get a replacement drive for the dead one.


>> #5) Make sure you are using a Bootable CD and try again to change the BIOS
>> settings to have 'ATAPI CD-ROM' before 'IDE Hard Drive'.
>
> I believe you are telling me to put the Plextor in a position above the
> IDE Hard Drive--is that correct? If so, that is where it is and no
> problems appear in the Device Manager. It seems that my problems with
> Device Manager start, when the Samsung device is added to the system.
>
> I will try to find a disk that will test the CD device during startup.
>>
> snip of older message
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

 

[... et al.]

Frog wrote:

> ... et al. wrote:
>
>> #1) Futile exercise?
>
> I'm starting to think that it may be a futile exercise--I hope not, though.

Trying to boot from the CD you were trying to boot from, perhaps.
Getting your working IDE Devices to work right in Win98SE and
allowing you to configure the BIOS to allow you to boot from a CD
... i think, that by removing the malworking Samsung-Drive, you've
accomplished that already.
I'll just make a few comments, since we have glee's response.

[snip]


>> You have a CD-Drive that was removed because some person couldn't get
>> it to work, and it is now working only intermittently for you and with
>> disappearing IDE devices in the Win98 Device Manager depending on
>> different BIOS settings. ¡Until you have everything else working fine,
>> remove this device from the equation! Disconnect Data- and
>> Power-cables from the Samsung Drive. Have only the Plextor CD-Drive,
>> jumpered as master, as a single device on the second IDE-channel.
>
> I disconnected the Samsung device from the equation. The Plextor device
> is now connected to the end connection on the ribbon cable. I then
> entered the BIOS and designated the boot sequence to be the floppy,
> Plextor, and then the hard drive. The computer was then restarted, and
> no problems were noted in the Device Manager.

See, this was all it took. And i think that if you try booting
with a bootable CD now, that this should work.

[snip]


>>
>> #3) I don't know if you took apart and rebuilt the hardware in the
>> aftermath of its 'meltdown',
>
> No, I changed nothing inside of my computer except re-placing the
> 120GB hard drive with the 30GB hard drive. Oh yes, and I added the
> Samsung CD device back into the system--that device is again
> disconnected from the system.

[snip]


> The Samsung CD device (not presently connected to the system) is set up
> as Slave.
>
> The Plextor CD device is set up as Master.

This was the important stuff. I thought there was a risk you had
had first one CD player in the machine alone and then the other,
and that both were still jumpered as master when you now tried to
use them together on the same IDE channel. Fine..


> NOTE: The 120GB hard drive that was in my computer, when I arrived home
> from the computer store, does not display a setup plan. It is a Western
> Digital model WD1200BB-23RDAO product. I looked at another Western
> Digital hard drive (not the same model number), and, if both settings
> are the same for both hard drives, it was set as Master (center two pins
> jumpered).

Glee posted a link for jumper-settings for Western Digital
branded HDD. For the time when you put yours back in some
machine, i just want to stress that how to jumper these differs
from most other brands of HDD's in that there is one
Jumper-setting when used as slave, and *two* different one when
used as master. One when there is a slave-device present and
another jumper-setting when there is no Slave-device present on
that IDE-channel.


>
>> <http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/if/ide/confCS.html>
>> <http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/if/ide/confCable80.html>
>> <http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/if/ide/confCable.html>
>
> I will read these ASAP.

For most of the questions you asked in your post, concerning
cables, master and slave positions, the things that i've snipped,
i suggest that you read the texts on the links i posted, look at
the pictures there and compare that information with you own
hardware. You will know as much about these things as i do.

[snip]


>
> The HHD ST330621A is shown on the Main page as the Primary Master with
> Type Auto. I looked up what Auto means in the motherboard book, and
> here is what I found:
>
> Quote
>
> Type [Auto]
> Select [Auto] to automatically detect an IDE hard disk drive. If
> automatic detection is successful, the correct values will be filled in
> for the remaining fields on the sub-menu. If automatic detection fails,
> your hard disk drive may be too old or too new. You can try updating
> your BIOS or enter the IDE hard disk drive parameters manually.
>
> Unquote
>
> The above makes me wonder if I was right in changing the Samsung Device
> from Auto to CD-ROM on the main page. I believe it should be Auto,
> if/when I re-install this device.

I don't see why you think it *should* be Auto.
It was only because you had problems we didn't know the cause
behind that i also want to point out that location in the BIOS
Setup as a variable for you to check out. (On my similar
motherboard) I have it set to 'Auto' for all four IDE positions,
so that when i change drives around i don't have to remember to
go there and change anything.

In the end all is well .. well except if you are a Samsung
CD-Drive located in your household and have just been taken off
life-support.


--
Nah-ah. I'm staying out of this. ... Now, here's my opinion.

Please followup in the newsgroup.
E-mail address is invalid due to spam-control.

 

[Frog]

Hello, Glen....

This whole melt-down has been several things to me. It has taught
me to:
--have a backup system in place that works (I had one, but the start-up
disks did not work), and
--make sure that you backup frequently (the backup that finally worked
for me was over a year old).
I have also learned more than I thought I would ever know about such
things as BIOS, jumpers, adjusting my old backup from a dial-up a FiOS
connection, how to get my virus scan working again, remembering to
adjust my time for daylight savings time, etc.. This has been one
humongous learning experience, that I hope to never have to undergo
again. I'm still not finished with the fallout of the melt-down of my
system. I want to remove/replace the 30GB hard drive presently in my
system with the new 120GB hard drive I recently purchased. Then, I
would like to attempt to restore my Acronis backup from my external hard
drive to the internal hard drive. If that is successful, I will be able
to recover lost genealogy and picture files. That is what lies ahead
for me before this melt-down is history.

Well, that is enough about my downers for today. Onward to
responding to your message (see comments below your comments where
appropriate.

Thanks, as always, to you and all of the others who came to my
rescue. I just wish I had a thimbleful of the computer knowledge
others display on this discussion group.

Frog


glee wrote:
> Comments inline.....
> "Frog" <frog@pond.com> wrote in message
> news:uNtgyp9%23HHA.3400@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>
>>> Is the CD you are trying to boot from even
>>> bootable? Unlike their WinXP CDs, and many 'Restore' CDs with Win98SE
>>> that comes with 'Brand Name' machines from so called OEM's ( Dell,
>>> Siemens, Acer, Compaq, etc... ), a microsoft-issued Win98SE CD isn't
>>> bootable.
>
> A RETAIL Win98SE CD is not bootable, but many OEM Win98SE CDs are.

I believe my Win98SE CD is an OEM copy. The only thing on this CD is
Win98SE, and the disk has the following printed on it:

For distribution with a new PC only. For product support, contact the
manufacturer of your PC.
SECOND EDITION
(C) 1981-1999 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Microsoft
products are licensed to OEMs by Microsoft Licensing Inc., a wholly
owned subsidery of Microsoft Corporation.
0499 Part No. X05 29232

I know that when I put this CD in the system, while in normal Windows
mode, it immediately starts running. The first window is a menu of
things you can do. Does that sound like an OEM copy?
>
>
>> My mistake on the bootable CD business. I thought the Microsoft-issued
>> Win98SE CD was bootable. How does the software on the Win98SE CD get
>> loaded on to a new computer for the first time?
>
> By using a Win98 Boot floppy with CD-ROM support. Said floppy will have
> the necessary CD drivers on it, and also the needed autoexec.bat and
> config.sys entries to load those drivers. Once booted, the CD drive is
> readable, and the Win98 setup program on it can be run.

Thanks for the education. I was wondering how this worked...it was on
my list of items to research.
>
>
>> I'm not
>> sure that I have a bootable CD to test my boot process--I will see if
>> one of my friends can help me with such a CD.
>
> You can make one with the help of the download from here:
> http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/

I will visit this site and make myself a bootable CD. I will be back,
however, if the boot process skips finding it in my Plextor CD device.
>
>
>>> #2) Important! You write:
>>> "Secondly, the SAMSUNG device is slow and may be on its way to the
>>> grave yard---that is, unless some setting is causing it to be slow.
>>> The technician at the shop (back when I was having the internal hard
>>> drive installed) could not make it work and removed it from the
>>> system. After my meltdown, I reinstalled it, and it has worked
>>> intermittently/and started reading a CD very slowly since that
>>> re-installation."
>>> You have a CD-Drive that was removed because some person couldn't get
>>> it to work, and it is now working only intermittently for you and
>>> with disappearing IDE devices in the Win98 Device Manager depending
>>> on different BIOS settings. ¡Until you have everything else working
>>> fine, remove this device from the equation! Disconnect Data- and
>>> Power-cables from the Samsung Drive. Have only the Plextor CD-Drive,
>>> jumpered as master, as a single device on the second IDE-channel.
>>
>> I disconnected the Samsung device from the equation. The Plextor device
>> is now connected to the end connection on the ribbon cable. I then
>> entered the BIOS and designated the boot sequence to be the floppy,
>> Plextor, and then the hard drive. The computer was then restarted, and
>> no problems were noted in the Device Manager.
>
> I think it is fairly safe to say that the Samsung CD drive is defective,
> and you should remove it and toss it into the nearest trash bin, please.

I have had nothing but troubles with the Samsung CD drive, since this
melt-down started. I have come to the conclusion that I must give up on
making it work and get a new CD device.
>
>>
>> NOTE 1: Although I see no problems in the Device Manager, I'm not sure
>> whether the Plextor is being checked for a CD during the boot process.
>> I do see the yellow light showing on the front of the Plextor device
>> immediately after the computer is powered up. Is this an indicator
>> that it is looking for a bootable CD?
>
> Not necessarily. Most systems will flash the optical drive lights as
> part of the boot process, as the BIOS discovers the hardware upon startup.

I understand.
>
>
>> NOTE 2: I will start this note with the fact that I haven't yet read the
>> items you you suggested in your message--that will be next on my list.
>> Now to my NOTE 2. Master and Slave on the ribbon cable is where I am a
>> little lost, to say the least. Let me explain. The cable that connects
>> to the Secondary IDE on the motherboard is a 40 connector cable with
>> three connectors (one for the motherboard and two for devices). I am
>> confused about how to know which is Master and which is Slave. Based on
>> the information contained in DadiOH and MEB messages, the end would be
>> the Master--is that correct? The book that came with the motherboard
>> doesn't help with this situation---it talks about blue, gray and black
>> connectors. All of the connectors on my ribbon cable are black.
>
> You will usually only find blue, grey, and black connector combinations
> on the newer 80-wire, 40-pin cables. 40-wire, 40-pin cables will have
> the same color on all three connectors, and it does not particularly
> matter with is used for which device. IOW you can put the master optical
> drive on either connector, likewise the slave. What matters in that
> scenario is that the drives are *jumpered* correctly as master and
> slave. If you have only one device on the cable, it is best to use the
> end connector. For consistency, I use the end connector for master even
> on the olde 40-wire cables, but it isn't necessary or sometimes even
> possible due to case configuration.

Thanks. I think I came to the same conclusion while attempting to make
the boot process work.
>
>
>> Here is what I found in my motherboard book:
>>
>> Quote
>>
>> Primary (Blue)/Secondary IDE Connectors
>> (40-1 pin PRIMARY ATA100 SECONDARY ATA100)
>> (40-1 pin PRIMARY IDE/SECONDARY IDE)
>> These connectors support the provided IDE hard disk ribbon cables.
>> Connect the cable's blue connector to the motherboard's primary
>> (recommended) or secondary IDE connector, and then connect the
>> corresponding gray connector to your UltraDMA100/UltraDMA66 slave device
>> (hard disk drive) and the black connector to your UltraDMA100/UltraDMA66
>> master device. It is recommended that non-UltraDMA100/UltraDMA66
>> devices be connected to the secondary IDE connector.
>>
>> NOTE: UltraDMA/100 is backward compatible with DMA/66, DMA/33, and DMA
>> and with existing DMA devices and systems, so there is no need to
>> upgrade current EIDE/IDE drives and host systems.
>>
>> Unquote
>>
>> There is more on this page, however, it contains information about
>> installing two hard disks.
>>
>> Well, this information would make better sense if I had a cable with
>> color coded connectors. As I said before, the Primary IDE is connected
>> to the blue Primary IDE terminal on the mother board (I'm sure of this
>> fact). The next connection up the cable is connected to the hard drive,
>> and the end connection is attached to the ZIP-100 device.
>
> As long as the drives are jumpered correctly (hard drive as master, zip
> drive as slave), which connector is for which does not really matter. As
> I said, I *prefer* using the end for the master device, but only for
> consistency. With standard 40-pin IDE cables it does not matter.
>
>
>> The Secondary
>> IDE is connected to black terminal on the mother board (I'm also sure of
>> this fact). The next connection up the cable is not connected to any
>> device (was previously connected to the Samsung device), and the end
>> connection is attached to the Plextor device. I'm still not sure that
>> things are wired properly. I think they are properly connected (see
>> jumper comments later in this message).
>
> That sounds fine.
>
>
>>> #3) I don't know if you took apart and rebuilt the hardware in the
>>> aftermath of its 'meltdown',
>>
>> No, I changed nothing inside of my computer except re-placing the
>> 120GB hard drive with the 30GB hard drive. Oh yes, and I added the
>> Samsung CD device back into the system--that device is again
>> disconnected from the system. The only changes I have made in the BIOS
>> was on the MAIN window (i.e., Secondary Master [Auto] - On the second
>> window of this entry, I changed Auto to CD-ROM) and to change the boot
>> sequence on the BOOT window.
>
> Either setting (auto or cd-rom) should work.

Okay.
>
>
>>> if both CD-Drives perhaps are jumpered as
>>> 'master', but you describe looking inside it now. I would check to
>>> confirm that on each IDE-cable one device was jumpered as master and
>>> one as slave or as master if using only a single device (if you
>>> follow step #2 above).
>>> Does it make any difference which CD device is Master?, you ask.
>>> If you have the newer '80-wire' IDE-cables then see _DadiOH_and _MEB_
>>> , if you have the older '40-wire' cable there are in fact two
>>> different ones behaving differently, but i think the special 'Cable
>>> Select Cable' is uncommon.
>>
>> The above instructions are at the edge of my technical knowledge. Here
>> is what I have learned about jumpering:
>>
>> 30GB hard drive:
>> Seagate U Series 5 - Model: 8T330621A
>> Presently set up as Master or single drive.
>> Other options are: Drive is a Slave, Master with non-ATA compatible
>> slave, and Enables cable select.
>
> Good.
>
>
>> ZIP-100 drive
>> Presently set up as Slave.
>> Other options are: Master and Cable Select.
>
> Good.
>
>
>> The Samsung CD device (not presently connected to the system) is set up
>> as Slave.
>
> Send this drive to the landfill or recycle it if possible.
>
>
>> The Plextor CD device is set up as Master.
>
> Good.

Thanks for confirming these settings were correct. I can now move on to
other tasks on my list. By the way, is there another way of knowing how
each piece of equipment is jumpered short of removing it and looking at
its case? I know how to do that for the Western Digital hard drives
based on the web page you included in your message.
>
>
>> NOTE: The 120GB hard drive that was in my computer, when I arrived home
>> from the computer store, does not display a setup plan. It is a Western
>> Digital model WD1200BB-23RDAO product. I looked at another Western
>> Digital hard drive (not the same model number), and, if both settings
>> are the same for both hard drives, it was set as Master (center two pins
>> jumpered). The hard drive that was originally in this system, when it
>> was originally assembled, was jumpered as a Slave. The ZIP-100 and the
>> Plextor devices were added later, so that probably changed the jumpers
>> at that time. Now, that is what I learned as I was living at the edge
>> of my technical knowledge. Hope that responds to the comments made in
>> your message....
>
> Western Digital jumper settings:
> http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc...Xh0PWp1bXBlciBzZXR0aW5ncw**&p_li=&p_topview=1

Thanks for telling me about this web page--very useful information on
this and other pages.

>
>
>
>>> <http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/if/ide/confCS.html>
>>> <http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/if/ide/confCable80.html>
>>> <http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/if/ide/confCable.html>
>>
>> I will read these ASAP.
>>
>>> ( Maybe i've just been lucky but for me IDE devices have 'worked'
>>> with the master in the middle or at the end, alone or with a slave,
>>> using the standard 40-wire cables. )
>>
>> My Secondary IDE employs a 40-wire cable harness, while the primary is
>> an 80 wire cable. I moved the Plextor on the Secondary IDE (with no
>> Samsung device involved) from one plug to the other and noticed no
>> change whatsoever. Thus, I don't think the plug connected to a device
>> makes a difference (my limited technical knowledge speaking). It must
>> be the jumpers that make the difference.
>
> Yep, if you are using a standard 40-conductor IDE cable.

Makes me feel good that I got this one right.....
>
>
>> snip
>> The HHD ST330621A is shown on the Main page as the Primary Master with
>> Type Auto. I looked up what Auto means in the motherboard book, and
>> here is what I found:
>> snip
>> The above makes me wonder if I was right in changing the Samsung Device
>> from Auto to CD-ROM on the main page. I believe it should be Auto,
>> if/when I re-install this device.
>
> The Samsung should be outside in the bin already. AFAIK either Auto or
> CD-ROM would work here. Try Auto, when you get a replacement drive for
> the dead one.

Okay.
>
>
>>> #5) Make sure you are using a Bootable CD and try again to change the
>>> BIOS settings to have 'ATAPI CD-ROM' before 'IDE Hard Drive'.
>>
>> I believe you are telling me to put the Plextor in a position above the
>> IDE Hard Drive--is that correct? If so, that is where it is and no
>> problems appear in the Device Manager. It seems that my problems with
>> Device Manager start, when the Samsung device is added to the system.
>>
>> I will try to find a disk that will test the CD device during startup.
>>>
>> snip of older message