Burning CD's is a HUGE HASSLE

jameswalker7@invalid.com · Nov 25, 2007

What ever happened to the good old days where all that was needed was
a simple floppy disk, and files could be dragged and dropped from
Windows, or use the "copy command" from dos.

After not even owning a CD player for years, I just bought an external
Iomega ZipCD player and recorder, connected to my USB port. After a
little hassle getting the drivers installed, it works fine, and I was
able to install a few CD's that have been sitting on the shelf for the
last several years.

On the other hand, I have never burned a CD or DVD or anything. This
drive came with Iomega Hot Burn Pro. I have played with it, but have
not yet purchased any blanks. One thing I am not sure whether to get
the Write once or Multi-write ones. Worse yet, which are which. In
the store they had R and RW. What do these letters mean? I thought
that R meant READ and RW meant READ-WRITE. But what good is a blank
CD that is only readable? The Walmart clerk did not know what I was
talking about (typical Walmart idiot), so I left the store not buying
any discs because I did not know what to buy.

Then, when I finally do get the disks, what do I do next?

The software has the following options to select.
Music Disc
Data Disc
MP3/WMA Disc
Disc Copy
CD Label

MP3's are music, so why is there both a "music disc" and a "MP3/WMA"
option?

I am sure the Data Disc is for backups and saving files off the hard
drive. And I know that CD Label makes labels (which my laser printer
would unlikely be able to make.

Then I started to select a bunch of MP3 files on my harddrive and it
told me that they will not all fit. Well, DUH..... Why does it not
tell me where to stop, assuming I will need several discs?

Do I need to manually copy the files to a special directory until I
know I have no more than 700 megs (or is it 650, since several
websites do not agree and list 650 on some and 700 on other sites for
the max capacity).

Then it says that MP3's can not be played on a standard CD player on a
stereo. What's the point of putting them on a CD if they wont play
(other than as a backup).

On to the Data Disc.
Am I going to have to manually select files till I reach the 650 or
700 meg limit? I dont see any option to have it just tell me to
insert another disc when one is full.

I spent half a day reading help files and websites, and this seems to
be the most complicated thing any computer can do. Like I said, what
ever happened to the good old days of floppies. Just copy the files
and the job is done. It looks like with CD's there are hours if not
days of preparation required before making each and every CD.

Now I know why I never wanted to own one of these cd burners.

I'm seriously thinking that although it will cost more, I may be
better off just buying a pile of those memory sticks for backing up my
computer, and forgetting the CD burning. At least I got a CD player
now.

By the way, if I ever do get this thing to work, how can I label them
with a pen or something like that? I dont have the printer to make
labels and it all seems like too much hassle anyhow. But they do need
some soft of label, even just numbering them would help. I have at
least a dozen CDs that other people made for them, and none have
labels, so I got to install them one by one to see what is on them.

Either I'm too old for this, or I just dont understand any of it.

By the way I'm runing 98SE.

Jim

Bill in Co. · Nov 25, 2007

jameswalker7@invalid.com wrote:
> What ever happened to the good old days where all that was needed was
> a simple floppy disk, and files could be dragged and dropped from
> Windows, or use the "copy command" from dos.

Those days are LONG gone.

> After not even owning a CD player for years, I just bought an external
> Iomega ZipCD player and recorder, connected to my USB port. After a
> little hassle getting the drivers installed, it works fine, and I was
> able to install a few CD's that have been sitting on the shelf for the
> last several years.
>
> On the other hand, I have never burned a CD or DVD or anything. This
> drive came with Iomega Hot Burn Pro. I have played with it, but have
> not yet purchased any blanks. One thing I am not sure whether to get
> the Write once or Multi-write ones. Worse yet, which are which. In
> the store they had R and RW. What do these letters mean? I thought
> that R meant READ and RW meant READ-WRITE. But what good is a blank
> CD that is only readable? The Walmart clerk did not know what I was
> talking about (typical Walmart idiot), so I left the store not buying
> any discs because I did not know what to buy.
>
> Then, when I finally do get the disks, what do I do next?
>
> The software has the following options to select.
> Music Disc
> Data Disc
> MP3/WMA Disc
> Disc Copy
> CD Label
>
> MP3's are music, so why is there both a "music disc" and a "MP3/WMA"
> option?

Just two different formats. Keep researching it.

> I am sure the Data Disc is for backups and saving files off the hard
> drive. And I know that CD Label makes labels (which my laser printer
> would unlikely be able to make.
>
> Then I started to select a bunch of MP3 files on my harddrive and it
> told me that they will not all fit. Well, DUH..... Why does it not
> tell me where to stop, assuming I will need several discs?
>
> Do I need to manually copy the files to a special directory until I
> know I have no more than 700 megs (or is it 650, since several
> websites do not agree and list 650 on some and 700 on other sites for
> the max capacity).
>
> Then it says that MP3's can not be played on a standard CD player on a
> stereo. What's the point of putting them on a CD if they wont play
> (other than as a backup).
>
>
> I spent half a day reading help files and websites, and this seems to
> be the most complicated thing any computer can do.

A half day isn't really long enough to get into this stuff with all the
questions you have. It will take more research than that.

Also, you might try the (more appropriate_ windows multimedia newsgroups,
when you get to a specific question or two.

MEB · Nov 26, 2007

<jameswalker7@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:fagkk3hfkk5ok9h7cvrjno8ad5rb909sdk@4ax.com...
| What ever happened to the good old days where all that was needed was
| a simple floppy disk, and files could be dragged and dropped from
| Windows, or use the "copy command" from dos.
|
| After not even owning a CD player for years, I just bought an external
| Iomega ZipCD player and recorder, connected to my USB port. After a
| little hassle getting the drivers installed, it works fine, and I was
| able to install a few CD's that have been sitting on the shelf for the
| last several years.

So at least that was useful, eh..

|
| On the other hand, I have never burned a CD or DVD or anything. This
| drive came with Iomega Hot Burn Pro. I have played with it, but have
| not yet purchased any blanks. One thing I am not sure whether to get
| the Write once or Multi-write ones. Worse yet, which are which. In
| the store they had R and RW. What do these letters mean? I thought
| that R meant READ and RW meant READ-WRITE. But what good is a blank
| CD that is only readable? The Walmart clerk did not know what I was
| talking about (typical Walmart idiot), so I left the store not buying
| any discs because I did not know what to buy.

CDR - write once
CDRW - write more than once - deletable/re-writable

Most people use CDR, due to the present low cost.

|
| Then, when I finally do get the disks, what do I do next?
|
| The software has the following options to select.
| Music Disc
| Data Disc
| MP3/WMA Disc
| Disc Copy
| CD Label
|
| MP3's are music, so why is there both a "music disc" and a "MP3/WMA"
| option?

Different sound formats, different storage techniques ...

|
| I am sure the Data Disc is for backups and saving files off the hard
| drive. And I know that CD Label makes labels (which my laser printer
| would unlikely be able to make.

Actually it probably would. The Label Maker program would be controlling
the printer..

|
| Then I started to select a bunch of MP3 files on my harddrive and it
| told me that they will not all fit. Well, DUH..... Why does it not
| tell me where to stop, assuming I will need several discs?

It should have if you were using the burner program... you weren't trying
this in Explorer were you? That type of copying would generally take a
packet writer/driver..

|
| Do I need to manually copy the files to a special directory until I
| know I have no more than 700 megs (or is it 650, since several
| websites do not agree and list 650 on some and 700 on other sites for
| the max capacity).

Not sure about your particular program, but again, it should have something
in the BURNING program which indicates how many and what files, and their
total amount.
650 is the *norm*, overburning can allow more than that for data CDs,
leadin and leadout, and directory entries all take up some space..
Music CD burning is based upon minutes, though that coverts to size at
approximately 700 to 800. There is some overhead involved depending upon the
format used, so that's part of the variable...

|
| Then it says that MP3's can not be played on a standard CD player on a
| stereo. What's the point of putting them on a CD if they wont play
| (other than as a backup).

Some DVD/CDROM home players support MP3 as do some car stereo systems, and
some home stereos. However, they general state such support somewhere [label
or manual]. The key word was *standard*, though in today's world MP3s are
pretty standard, so most players generally have that support ...

|
| On to the Data Disc.
| Am I going to have to manually select files till I reach the 650 or
| 700 meg limit? I dont see any option to have it just tell me to
| insert another disc when one is full.

Manual backups, or just burning a few files will require you to limit the
total. You can burn just a few or burn a full disk, but each will be limited
to the blank's capacity. Again, the software program should have a bar or
some other indication showing the amount presently *qued* for burning.
If the software includes a BACKUP program, then it will likely ask for
another disk when full.

|
| I spent half a day reading help files and websites, and this seems to
| be the most complicated thing any computer can do. Like I said, what
| ever happened to the good old days of floppies. Just copy the files
| and the job is done. It looks like with CD's there are hours if not
| days of preparation required before making each and every CD.

Nah, just seems that way,,, try to remember the first time you used a
floppy,, how many times did you screw-up...
CDR disks are relatively inexpensive, so purchase some and play around till
you get the feel for the software and how its done.

|
| Now I know why I never wanted to own one of these cd burners.
|
| I'm seriously thinking that although it will cost more, I may be
| better off just buying a pile of those memory sticks for backing up my
| computer, and forgetting the CD burning. At least I got a CD player
| now.

Not a good idea,, as with any device based upon a chip, some degradation
may occur over time. They're good for temporary storage, but not recommended
for long term. You're not likely to be able to continually supply an
electro-magnetic free environment in your own home. CDROM's [or DVD style]
can also decay to some extent over long periods, and certainly can be
damaged, but for the cost per disk they can't presently be beat for long
term occassional use permanent storage.

|
| By the way, if I ever do get this thing to work, how can I label them
| with a pen or something like that? I dont have the printer to make
| labels and it all seems like too much hassle anyhow. But they do need
| some soft of label, even just numbering them would help. I have at
| least a dozen CDs that other people made for them, and none have
| labels, so I got to install them one by one to see what is on them.

You can use a regular "magic" marker or paint pen to label them [on the
label side]. Make sure you do NOT scratch the surface trying to use a pencil
or pen...

To view the disks: Just put the CD in the drive and look at it from
Explorer...

|
| Either I'm too old for this, or I just dont understand any of it.
|
| By the way I'm runing 98SE.
|
| Jim
|

Hey, we all went through the learning curve,,, you should have been here
when CDROM devices first came out, not fun or cheap at all ...

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
________

jameswalker7@invalid.com · Nov 26, 2007

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 22:29:08 -0700, "Bill in Co."
<not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

>jameswalker7@invalid.com wrote:
>> What ever happened to the good old days where all that was needed was
>> a simple floppy disk, and files could be dragged and dropped from
>> Windows, or use the "copy command" from dos.
>
>Those days are LONG gone.
>
>> After not even owning a CD player for years, I just bought an external
>> Iomega ZipCD player and recorder, connected to my USB port. After a
>> little hassle getting the drivers installed, it works fine, and I was
>> able to install a few CD's that have been sitting on the shelf for the
>> last several years.
>>
>> On the other hand, I have never burned a CD or DVD or anything. This
>> drive came with Iomega Hot Burn Pro. I have played with it, but have
>> not yet purchased any blanks. One thing I am not sure whether to get
>> the Write once or Multi-write ones. Worse yet, which are which. In
>> the store they had R and RW. What do these letters mean? I thought
>> that R meant READ and RW meant READ-WRITE. But what good is a blank
>> CD that is only readable? The Walmart clerk did not know what I was
>> talking about (typical Walmart idiot), so I left the store not buying
>> any discs because I did not know what to buy.
>>
>> Then, when I finally do get the disks, what do I do next?
>>
>> The software has the following options to select.
>> Music Disc
>> Data Disc
>> MP3/WMA Disc
>> Disc Copy
>> CD Label
>>
>> MP3's are music, so why is there both a "music disc" and a "MP3/WMA"
>> option?
>
>Just two different formats. Keep researching it.
>
>> I am sure the Data Disc is for backups and saving files off the hard
>> drive. And I know that CD Label makes labels (which my laser printer
>> would unlikely be able to make.
>>
>> Then I started to select a bunch of MP3 files on my harddrive and it
>> told me that they will not all fit. Well, DUH..... Why does it not
>> tell me where to stop, assuming I will need several discs?
>>
>> Do I need to manually copy the files to a special directory until I
>> know I have no more than 700 megs (or is it 650, since several
>> websites do not agree and list 650 on some and 700 on other sites for
>> the max capacity).
>>
>> Then it says that MP3's can not be played on a standard CD player on a
>> stereo. What's the point of putting them on a CD if they wont play
>> (other than as a backup).
>>
>>
>> I spent half a day reading help files and websites, and this seems to
>> be the most complicated thing any computer can do.
>
>A half day isn't really long enough to get into this stuff with all the
>questions you have. It will take more research than that.
>
>Also, you might try the (more appropriate_ windows multimedia newsgroups,
>when you get to a specific question or two.
>

Thank You

You just answered my question by not answering anything. I can see
now this is far too complicated to answer, and thus means it's too
complicated for someone as old as me. I already wasted too much time
on this nonsense.

Just like everything these days, the mindset of the young generation
is to make everything as complicated, costly, and difficult as
possible. I was raised with the "KISS" theory (Keep It Simple
Stupid). I'll just use memory sticks to backup and forget the CD
burning. At least I got a CD player now.

Those memory sticks are one of the few advances for computers in the
last 10 years that are worth anything. I'll stick with Win98 and Dos
programs and leave the rest of the world suffer with all the bloated
garbage they sell these days. In my opinion, the older the software
the better it is.

thanatoid · Nov 26, 2007

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:#jVOG1#LIHA.4272@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:

> jameswalker7@invalid.com wrote:
>> What ever happened to the good old days where all that was
>> needed was a simple floppy disk, and files could be
>> dragged and dropped from Windows, or use the "copy
>> command" from dos.
>
> Those days are LONG gone.

Maybe for most people, but I would NEVER own a computer without
a floppy drive.

And the list of people buying external USB floppy drives for 10
times what an internal one costs is growing...

thanatoid · Nov 26, 2007

jameswalker7@invalid.com wrote in
news:fqskk3lk94gi45e6uia2tqrlo4l31jqo9u@4ax.com:

<SNIP>

> Just like everything these days, the mindset of the young
> generation is to make everything as complicated, costly,
> and difficult as possible. I was raised with the "KISS"
> theory (Keep It Simple Stupid). I'll just use memory
> sticks to backup and forget the CD burning. At least I got
> a CD player now.
>
> Those memory sticks are one of the few advances for
> computers in the last 10 years that are worth anything.
> I'll stick with Win98 and Dos programs and leave the rest
> of the world suffer with all the bloated garbage they sell
> these days. In my opinion, the older the software the
> better it is.

I'll be honest, I didn't read ALL of your OP, because it was
quite long, but I know exactly what you're talking about and I
agree with you, and I feel your pain.

Here's what you do:

Go to:
www.cdrfaq.org

and download the whole thing as a zip file (this option is near
the start of the page), and unzip it into a nice new directory
on your machine.

Read about what seems most baffling to start with. Read more if
you want. It has everything but VERY well organized.

Don't bother with stuff like multisession, "Rainier",
proprietary software (like the one that came with your drive)
etc. Goes against what we both believe.

Since you had enough money to buy an external CD burner, I'm
sure you can spend 35 bucks to get the best software there is,
from www.goldenhawk.com

Uninstall the Iomega stuff and forget everything about it.

Buy TDK CD-R's in spindle packs of 50 or 100 for write once, buy
the most expensive you can find, made-in-Japan if possible, CD-
RW's for "write, erase, write again a bunch of times". "They"
claim up to a 1000 times but about 100-200 is most I've gotten
IIRC.

Generally CD-RW's are a waste of time since they cost
considerably more than CD-R's (which cost about a quarter) and
are less reliable. I just use CD-RW's to transfer stuff from one
computer to another, and when a disc dies, I just get a new one.
I've gone through about 5 in 3 years.

Always make an ISO file on a defragmented partition and then
burn that.

Burn at lower speeds. 4x, 8x, MAYBE 12x. What's the rush?

Good luck.

thanatoid · Nov 26, 2007

With all due respects to MEB's very helpful post, I am adding a
few comments since I know you won't understand a few of the
things he mentions, plus I got a new small burst of energy from
somewhere...

"MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:OjtH23$LIHA.5160@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:

<SNIP>

>| On the other hand, I have never burned a CD or DVD or
>| anything. This drive came with Iomega Hot Burn Pro. I
>| have played with it, but have not yet purchased any
>| blanks. One thing I am not sure whether to get the Write
>| once or Multi-write ones. Worse yet, which are which. In
>| the store they had R and RW. What do these letters mean?
>| I thought that R meant READ and RW meant READ-WRITE. But
>| what good is a blank CD that is only readable? The
>| Walmart clerk did not know what I was talking about
>| (typical Walmart idiot), so I left the store not buying
>| any discs because I did not know what to buy.
>
> CDR - write once
> CDRW - write more than once - deletable/re-writable
>
> Most people use CDR, due to the present low cost.

>| Then, when I finally do get the disks, what do I do next?
>|
>| The software has the following options to select.
>| Music Disc
>| Data Disc
>| MP3/WMA Disc
>| Disc Copy
>| CD Label
>|
>| MP3's are music, so why is there both a "music disc" and a
>| "MP3/WMA" option?
>
> Different sound formats, different storage techniques ...

"Music Disc" is a largely meaningless (or at least multi-
interpretable) term which the Iomega software uses, which is one
of the many reasons I suggested you dump it and forget
everything about it. All you need is the drivers for the
machine, which you have already installed. You can use ANY
burning software. Go with my suggestion (funny I should say
that, huh?).

Music, photos, text, it's all DATA.
cdrfaq!!!

>| I am sure the Data Disc is for backups and saving files
>| off the hard drive. And I know that CD Label makes labels
>| (which my laser printer would unlikely be able to make.
>
> Actually it probably would. The Label Maker program would
> be controlling
> the printer..

As I believe cdrfaq mentions, NEVER apply ANY labels to CD-R's
UNLESS the blanks are the "print-on" kind (with a layer of -
usually white - paint on them), which is not worth bothering
with. Write a few descriptive words using a Sanford Sharpie (not
the thin kind!!!, the regular one!) gently. You can print the
contents as an insert or just a page to put in the
case/envelope.

[If you want to know WHY, take a useless (you'll get a few until
you get the hang of this, but they're ONLY a quarter) CD-R (NOT
a real Compact Disc - different animal entirely) and scratch the
printed side with a nail or razor blade and see what happens.]

>| Then I started to select a bunch of MP3 files on my
>| harddrive and it told me that they will not all fit.
>| Well, DUH..... Why does it not tell me where to stop,
>| assuming I will need several discs?

The goldenhawk software tells you EXACTLY how much space you
have left, and whether you should be using an 80 min CD or
whether a 74 is enough. There are 74 min and 80 min discs (they
use minutes since it's a term most people can comprehend) and
they are 650MB and 700MB respectively. 700MB will actually store
about 715,000,000 bytes... Remember - cdrfaq!

> It should have if you were using the burner program... you
> weren't trying
> this in Explorer were you? That type of copying would
> generally take a packet writer/driver..

Don't even bother trying to understand/use the packet writing
technology. Just perceive the CD-R as a write-everything-at-once
technology, as opposed to a floppy disk.

>| Do I need to manually copy the files to a special
>| directory until I know I have no more than 700 megs (or is
>| it 650, since several websites do not agree and list 650
>| on some and 700 on other sites for the max capacity).

cdrfaq

>| Then it says that MP3's can not be played on a standard CD
>| player on a stereo. What's the point of putting them on a
>| CD if they wont play (other than as a backup).
>
> Some DVD/CDROM home players support MP3 as do some car
> stereo systems, and
> some home stereos. However, they general state such support
> somewhere [label or manual]. The key word was *standard*,
> though in today's world MP3s are pretty standard, so most
> players generally have that support ...

Pretty much every DVD player made in the last few years, and
many car CD players and walkman-style players and blasters will
play mp3's. Some will "play" WMA and jpg photos as well.

SOME may not play the highest mp3 bitrate (320) rips, but no one
REALLY needs to use the highest rate. Go with "192 true stereo"
for your mp3's and don't worry about the other options. Stay
away from WMA.

<SNIP>

>| I'm seriously thinking that although it will cost more, I
>| may be better off just buying a pile of those memory
>| sticks for backing up my computer, and forgetting the CD
>| burning. At least I got a CD player now.
>
> Not a good idea,, as with any device based upon a chip,
> some degradation
> may occur over time. They're good for temporary storage,
> but not recommended for long term. You're not likely to be
> able to continually supply an electro-magnetic free
> environment in your own home. CDROM's [or DVD style] can
> also decay to some extent over long periods, and certainly
> can be damaged, but for the cost per disk they can't
> presently be beat for long term occassional use permanent
> storage.

Amen.

>| By the way, if I ever do get this thing to work, how can I
>| label them with a pen or something like that? I dont have
>| the printer to make labels and it all seems like too much
>| hassle anyhow. But they do need some soft of label, even
>| just numbering them would help. I have at least a dozen
>| CDs that other people made for them, and none have labels,
>| so I got to install them one by one to see what is on
>| them.
>
> You can use a regular "magic" marker or paint pen to label
> them [on the
> label side]. Make sure you do NOT scratch the surface
> trying to use a pencil or pen...

See above.

> To view the disks: Just put the CD in the drive and look at
> it from Explorer...

You MAY need to eject the disc from the drive after burning it
to properly see it. I don't know why this is, but if you try to
look at it and see gibberish, don't panic. Eject, insert, try
again. It will take a few moments for the disc to spin up to
speed and read the directory.

>| Either I'm too old for this, or I just dont understand any
>| of it.
>|
>| By the way I'm runing 98SE.

So am I (on my other computer, a 2GHz) and I will NEVER run
anything more recent.

THIS machine is 95B, 166MHz

> Hey, we all went through the learning curve,,, you should
> have been here when CDROM devices first came out, not fun or
cheap > at all ...

I remember when at work we got the first 1x speed HP for what, a
thousand dollars or something, and the smartest guy was the one
who had to learn the Adaptec software to burn stuff on Quantegy
(formerly Ampex) CD-R's... I wish I could remember how much the
blanks cost!

Jeff Richards · Nov 26, 2007

Your frustration is clouding your common sense.

The good old days are still with us - you can install a floppy drive in the
machine and drag and drop files to it or use the copy command from DOS just
like you always did.. Nothing has changed, except perhaps that you are now
finding that the floppy isn't quite big enough for you.

Did you check what the documentation supplied with the drive said about the
correct blank disk to purchase? You have many more choices than just R or
RW, and you will need to consult the manual. And if you need advice from a
sales assistant, don't shop at Walmart.

I don't know how you expected the software to tell you when to stop
selecting files when you did not have a blank disk inserted in the drive - I
think it would be very magic software that knew what type of disk you
intended to buy. I suspect that if you buy a blank disk and insert it in
the drive you may find there's a wizard that will start by telling you how
much space you have available, and then guide you through the steps
depending on what it is your are trying to copy to the disk - at least
that's how other brands of CD writing software work (and if your software
doesn't do that for you, perhaps you purchased the wrong product).

Take a deep breath, do a little bit of reading, find a sales assistant in a
store that knows what they are talking about, get some blank disks, and
start experimenting. And while doing all that, keep in mind the degree of
puzzlement you experienced when your first turned your own computer on many
years ago, and just how much your knowledge has grown since that day.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
<jameswalker7@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:fagkk3hfkk5ok9h7cvrjno8ad5rb909sdk@4ax.com...
> What ever happened to the good old days where all that was needed was
> a simple floppy disk, and files could be dragged and dropped from
> Windows, or use the "copy command" from dos.
>
> After not even owning a CD player for years, I just bought an external
> Iomega ZipCD player and recorder, connected to my USB port. After a
> little hassle getting the drivers installed, it works fine, and I was
> able to install a few CD's that have been sitting on the shelf for the
> last several years.
>
> On the other hand, I have never burned a CD or DVD or anything. This
> drive came with Iomega Hot Burn Pro. I have played with it, but have
> not yet purchased any blanks. One thing I am not sure whether to get
> the Write once or Multi-write ones. Worse yet, which are which. In
> the store they had R and RW. What do these letters mean? I thought
> that R meant READ and RW meant READ-WRITE. But what good is a blank
> CD that is only readable? The Walmart clerk did not know what I was
> talking about (typical Walmart idiot), so I left the store not buying
> any discs because I did not know what to buy.
>
> Then, when I finally do get the disks, what do I do next?
>
> The software has the following options to select.
> Music Disc
> Data Disc
> MP3/WMA Disc
> Disc Copy
> CD Label
>
> MP3's are music, so why is there both a "music disc" and a "MP3/WMA"
> option?
>
> I am sure the Data Disc is for backups and saving files off the hard
> drive. And I know that CD Label makes labels (which my laser printer
> would unlikely be able to make.
>
> Then I started to select a bunch of MP3 files on my harddrive and it
> told me that they will not all fit. Well, DUH..... Why does it not
> tell me where to stop, assuming I will need several discs?
>
> Do I need to manually copy the files to a special directory until I
> know I have no more than 700 megs (or is it 650, since several
> websites do not agree and list 650 on some and 700 on other sites for
> the max capacity).
>
> Then it says that MP3's can not be played on a standard CD player on a
> stereo. What's the point of putting them on a CD if they wont play
> (other than as a backup).
>
> On to the Data Disc.
> Am I going to have to manually select files till I reach the 650 or
> 700 meg limit? I dont see any option to have it just tell me to
> insert another disc when one is full.
>
> I spent half a day reading help files and websites, and this seems to
> be the most complicated thing any computer can do. Like I said, what
> ever happened to the good old days of floppies. Just copy the files
> and the job is done. It looks like with CD's there are hours if not
> days of preparation required before making each and every CD.
>
> Now I know why I never wanted to own one of these cd burners.
>
> I'm seriously thinking that although it will cost more, I may be
> better off just buying a pile of those memory sticks for backing up my
> computer, and forgetting the CD burning. At least I got a CD player
> now.
>
> By the way, if I ever do get this thing to work, how can I label them
> with a pen or something like that? I dont have the printer to make
> labels and it all seems like too much hassle anyhow. But they do need
> some soft of label, even just numbering them would help. I have at
> least a dozen CDs that other people made for them, and none have
> labels, so I got to install them one by one to see what is on them.
>
> Either I'm too old for this, or I just dont understand any of it.
>
> By the way I'm runing 98SE.
>
> Jim
>

RobertVA · Nov 26, 2007

jameswalker7@invalid.com wrote:
> What ever happened to the good old days where all that was needed was
> a simple floppy disk, and files could be dragged and dropped from
> Windows, or use the "copy command" from dos.
>
> After not even owning a CD player for years, I just bought an external
> Iomega ZipCD player and recorder, connected to my USB port. After a
> little hassle getting the drivers installed, it works fine, and I was
> able to install a few CD's that have been sitting on the shelf for the
> last several years.
>
> On the other hand, I have never burned a CD or DVD or anything. This
> drive came with Iomega Hot Burn Pro. I have played with it, but have
> not yet purchased any blanks. One thing I am not sure whether to get
> the Write once or Multi-write ones. Worse yet, which are which. In
> the store they had R and RW. What do these letters mean? I thought
> that R meant READ and RW meant READ-WRITE. But what good is a blank
> CD that is only readable? The Walmart clerk did not know what I was
> talking about (typical Walmart idiot), so I left the store not buying
> any discs because I did not know what to buy.

CD-R: Compact Disk Recordable

Use for maximum compatibility with other CD reading devices.

CD-RW: Compact Disk Read/Write

Use for disks you expect to change or add data to in a future session.
These can be used in a manner similar to a floppy IF, and ONLY IF, you
install packet writing software like Nero or CD Creator (usually comes
with the drive - probably something that Iomega Hot Burn Pro does). Note
that CD-RWs formatted with one publisher's packet writing application
may not be compatible with applications from other publishers.

> Then, when I finally do get the disks, what do I do next?
>
> The software has the following options to select.
> Music Disc
This is the classic wave file format compatible with nearly all CD and
DVD players (even some game consoles like Sega-CD Playstations and
X-Box). Utilizes tracks 1 through as high as 99 (one "song" per track).
Music CDs don't normally have a track zero.

> Data Disc
Stores computer files on track 0 (zero)

> MP3/WMA Disc
A data disk containing audio recordings. Compatible with SOME CD players
and DVD players. Check the player's user manual and or packaging for a
listing of compatible formats (MIGHT even be on the face plate). The
compatible DVD players might display an Explorer style music file list
on the TV screen. Many people don't mind the slightly lower sound
quality and the same blank can contain MP3 files from dozens of music CDs

> Disc Copy
Can be used to duplicate a pressed (from the music store) CD on a CD-R.
Use the CD-R copy fir portable use, storing the original at home. If the
CD-R copy gets damaged or stolen you can easily make another.

> CD Label
>
> MP3's are music, so why is there both a "music disc" and a "MP3/WMA"
> option?

Music disks for wider compatibility with players. MP3 on data disks for
higher capacity (the things can play for days without repeating).

> I am sure the Data Disc is for backups and saving files off the hard
> drive. And I know that CD Label makes labels (which my laser printer
> would unlikely be able to make.

Check office supply stores for blank labels. Look for packages labeled
for use in laser printers (the glue needs to be formulated for the
higher temperatures that fuse the toner to the paper). Look near where
laser/copier compatible mailing labels are displayed. Make sure you
start with a kit that has a device to align the labels on the CD. You
CAN NOT remove a label from a CD-R without ruining the disk. The CD-R
will be out of balance and probably unreadable if the label is applied
off center.

> Then I started to select a bunch of MP3 files on my harddrive and it
> told me that they will not all fit. Well, DUH..... Why does it not
> tell me where to stop, assuming I will need several discs?

Use the file listing in the software that came with the drive instead of
Windows Explorer (Probably the Iomega Hot Burn Pro you describe). That
list of disk type options is probably one of the steps leading to where
you select what music (or other files) you want to put on the disk.

> Do I need to manually copy the files to a special directory until I
> know I have no more than 700 megs (or is it 650, since several
> websites do not agree and list 650 on some and 700 on other sites for
> the max capacity).

The Iomega Hot Burn Pro probably automatically creates a temporary
buffer on your hard drive containing the music or other files and then
"burns" the whole lot on the CD-R at once. Pay attention to the "#x"
speed labeling on the spool of blanks for this process. Sometimes a
lower speed than what the package claims will be more reliable. Try not
to use any other applications during the actual burning process.

> Then it says that MP3's can not be played on a standard CD player on a
> stereo. What's the point of putting them on a CD if they wont play
> (other than as a backup).

SOME CD and DVD players WILL play the MP3s (probably better chance with
the DVD players unless a VERY early model). Portable CD players with MP3
compatibility were beginning to catch on when flash memory and hard
drive based players (like I-pods) captured the portable player market.

> On to the Data Disc.
> Am I going to have to manually select files till I reach the 650 or
> 700 meg limit? I dont see any option to have it just tell me to
> insert another disc when one is full.

Again check the abilities of the Iomega Hot Burn Pro.

> I spent half a day reading help files and websites, and this seems to
> be the most complicated thing any computer can do. Like I said, what
> ever happened to the good old days of floppies. Just copy the files
> and the job is done. It looks like with CD's there are hours if not
> days of preparation required before making each and every CD.
>
> Now I know why I never wanted to own one of these cd burners.
>
> I'm seriously thinking that although it will cost more, I may be
> better off just buying a pile of those memory sticks for backing up my
> computer, and forgetting the CD burning. At least I got a CD player
> now.

Price would be awfully high. The amount of data involved might even make
the quantity of CD-Rs (or CD-RWs) an issue for making a system backup
anyway. It's becoming common for computer users to use external hard
drives connected to USB ports for system backups. CD-Rs or CD-RWs may be
useful for data backups though (as long as video isn't involved).

> By the way, if I ever do get this thing to work, how can I label them
> with a pen or something like that? I dont have the printer to make
> labels and it all seems like too much hassle anyhow. But they do need
> some soft of label, even just numbering them would help. I have at
> least a dozen CDs that other people made for them, and none have
> labels, so I got to install them one by one to see what is on them.

While in that office supply store look for special markers designed for
CDs. Their water based inks add a margin of safety compared to the ink
in regular permanent markers containing solvents that could soften the
lacquer coating that protects the reflective layers of optical media.

You may be able to buy an ink jet printer PLUS a spare set of ink tanks
(maybe even two extra sets) for the cost of ONE replacement toner
cartridge for that laser printer.

> Either I'm too old for this, or I just dont understand any of it.
>
> By the way I'm runing 98SE.
>
> Jim
>

Bill in Co. · Nov 26, 2007

jameswalker7@invalid.com wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 22:29:08 -0700, "Bill in Co."
> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> jameswalker7@invalid.com wrote:
>>> What ever happened to the good old days where all that was needed was
>>> a simple floppy disk, and files could be dragged and dropped from
>>> Windows, or use the "copy command" from dos.
>>
>> Those days are LONG gone.
>>
>>> After not even owning a CD player for years, I just bought an external
>>> Iomega ZipCD player and recorder, connected to my USB port. After a
>>> little hassle getting the drivers installed, it works fine, and I was
>>> able to install a few CD's that have been sitting on the shelf for the
>>> last several years.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, I have never burned a CD or DVD or anything. This
>>> drive came with Iomega Hot Burn Pro. I have played with it, but have
>>> not yet purchased any blanks. One thing I am not sure whether to get
>>> the Write once or Multi-write ones. Worse yet, which are which. In
>>> the store they had R and RW. What do these letters mean? I thought
>>> that R meant READ and RW meant READ-WRITE. But what good is a blank
>>> CD that is only readable? The Walmart clerk did not know what I was
>>> talking about (typical Walmart idiot), so I left the store not buying
>>> any discs because I did not know what to buy.
>>>
>>> Then, when I finally do get the disks, what do I do next?
>>>
>>> The software has the following options to select.
>>> Music Disc
>>> Data Disc
>>> MP3/WMA Disc
>>> Disc Copy
>>> CD Label
>>>
>>> MP3's are music, so why is there both a "music disc" and a "MP3/WMA"
>>> option?
>>
>> Just two different formats. Keep researching it.
>>
>>> I am sure the Data Disc is for backups and saving files off the hard
>>> drive. And I know that CD Label makes labels (which my laser printer
>>> would unlikely be able to make.
>>>
>>> Then I started to select a bunch of MP3 files on my harddrive and it
>>> told me that they will not all fit. Well, DUH..... Why does it not
>>> tell me where to stop, assuming I will need several discs?
>>>
>>> Do I need to manually copy the files to a special directory until I
>>> know I have no more than 700 megs (or is it 650, since several
>>> websites do not agree and list 650 on some and 700 on other sites for
>>> the max capacity).
>>>
>>> Then it says that MP3's can not be played on a standard CD player on a
>>> stereo.

True (for a standard CD player). But can be played on a computer, or on
a portable mp3 player. Standard CD players play only WAV files (which
are real hogs of disk space, though, by comparison - mp3s are MUCH smaller
in file size).

>>> What's the point of putting them on a CD if they wont play
>>> (other than as a backup).
>>>
>>>
>>> I spent half a day reading help files and websites, and this seems to
>>> be the most complicated thing any computer can do.
>>
>> A half day isn't really long enough to get into this stuff with all the
>> questions you have. It will take more research than that.
>>
>> Also, you might try the (more appropriate_ windows multimedia newsgroups,
>> when you get to a specific question or two.
>>
>
> Thank You
>
> You just answered my question by not answering anything. I can see
> now this is far too complicated to answer, and thus means it's too
> complicated for someone as old as me.

Well, not really. I'm probably as old as you are (although, admitedly,
I'm having a hard time remembering Teddy Roosevelt

.

But you CAN get there with some perseverance, but there's a real learning
curve for a lot of it - for sure. And I added a couple of other notes
above.

Oh, and I should correct myself: you can STILL do a lot of that basic
stuff today, but things have gotten a bit more complex with all the
(additional) new technology - for sure.

thanatoid · Nov 26, 2007

RobertVA <robert_c72athotmail@invalid.com> wrote in
news:uFVWw$AMIHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:

Excuse the starting top post, but does *anyone* bother reading
the thread before repeating what others have said, sometimes
several different people? Also, IMO you are giving some bad
advice and you appear to misjudge the level of the OP's
proficiency.

> jameswalker7@invalid.com wrote:
>> What ever happened to the good old days where all that was
>> needed was a simple floppy disk, and files could be
>> dragged and dropped from Windows, or use the "copy
>> command" from dos.

<SNIP>

> CD-RW: Compact Disk Read/Write
>
> Use for disks you expect to change or add data to in a
> future session. These can be used in a manner similar to a
> floppy IF, and ONLY IF, you install packet writing software
> like Nero or CD Creator (usually comes with the drive -
> probably something that Iomega Hot Burn Pro does). Note
> that CD-RWs formatted with one publisher's packet writing
> application may not be compatible with applications from
> other publishers.

As I mentioned in my reply, IMO understanding and messing about
with packet writing is probably best left alone in this case.

Also, for packet writing to work on 98 (which the OP uses)
additional drivers MAY be needed.

Also, discs burned in this manner may not be readable on some
players. (This theoretically can be the case with ANY CD-R or
DVD-R, but is much more likely when packet writing was used.)

<SNIP>

>> MP3/WMA Disc
> A data disk containing audio recordings. Compatible with
> SOME CD players and DVD players. Check the player's user
> manual and or packaging for a listing of compatible formats
> (MIGHT even be on the face plate). The compatible DVD
> players might display an Explorer style music file list on
> the TV screen. Many people don't mind the slightly lower
> sound quality and the same blank can contain MP3 files from
> dozens of music CDs

I assume you mean 1 blank CD-R can store the equivalent of
dozens of CVD's. That is a slight exaggeration unless you don't
mind AM radio quality. 8-10 CD's' worth depending on bitrate if
you want it to sound decent.

>> Disc Copy
> Can be used to duplicate a pressed (from the music store)
> CD on a CD-R. Use the CD-R copy fir portable use, storing
> the original at home. If the CD-R copy gets damaged or
> stolen you can easily make another.
>
>> CD Label
>>
>> MP3's are music, so why is there both a "music disc" and a
>> "MP3/WMA" option?
>
> Music disks for wider compatibility with players. MP3 on
> data disks for higher capacity (the things can play for
> days without repeating).

DAYS without repeating? If you use 32 mono bitrate, maybe.

>> I am sure the Data Disc is for backups and saving files
>> off the hard drive. And I know that CD Label makes labels
>> (which my laser printer would unlikely be able to make.

Any printer can print labels, but as already mentioned, you
should NEVER use labels. The following paragraph is correct and
certainly its implications are scary enough for me.

> Check office supply stores for blank labels. Look for
> packages labeled for use in laser printers (the glue needs
> to be formulated for the higher temperatures that fuse the
> toner to the paper). Look near where laser/copier
> compatible mailing labels are displayed. Make sure you
> start with a kit that has a device to align the labels on
> the CD. You CAN NOT remove a label from a CD-R without
> ruining the disk. The CD-R will be out of balance and
> probably unreadable if the label is applied off center.

No one who wants their CD-R's to last uses those kits.

<SNIP>

>> Do I need to manually copy the files to a special
>> directory until I know I have no more than 700 megs (or is
>> it 650, since several websites do not agree and list 650
>> on some and 700 on other sites for the max capacity).
>
> The Iomega Hot Burn Pro probably automatically creates a
> temporary buffer on your hard drive containing the music or
> other files and then "burns" the whole lot on the CD-R at
> once. Pay attention to the "#x" speed labeling on the spool
> of blanks for this process. Sometimes a lower speed than
> what the package claims will be more reliable. Try not to
> use any other applications during the actual burning
> process.

Now that *is* good advice, although I have a feeling doing
extensive photo-retouching at the same time MIGHT be the last
thing on the OP's mind as he is learning this.

AFA temporary buffer, it probably won't work very well on his 98
system (it's probably not a 3GHz with 2 GB's of RAM).

To get a good disc, you should always make an ISO or UDF file
first, in a way not unlike "manually copying the files to a
special directory" which the OP mentioned.

<SNIP>

>> I'm seriously thinking that although it will cost more, I
>> may be better off just buying a pile of those memory
>> sticks for backing up my computer, and forgetting the CD
>> burning. At least I got a CD player now.
>
> Price would be awfully high. The amount of data involved
> might even make the quantity of CD-Rs (or CD-RWs) an issue
> for making a system backup anyway. It's becoming common for
> computer users to use external hard drives connected to USB
> ports for system backups. CD-Rs or CD-RWs may be useful for
> data backups though (as long as video isn't involved).

Hard drives fail, all the time. Well-burned and properly handled
CD's do not.

Also, CD-R/RW can store video, just much less of it than a DVD.
Data is data.

>> By the way, if I ever do get this thing to work, how can I
>> label them with a pen or something like that? I dont have
>> the printer to make labels and it all seems like too much
>> hassle anyhow. But they do need some soft of label, even
>> just numbering them would help. I have at least a dozen
>> CDs that other people made for them, and none have labels,
>> so I got to install them one by one to see what is on
>> them.
>
> While in that office supply store look for special markers
> designed for CDs. Their water based inks add a margin of
> safety compared to the ink in regular permanent markers
> containing solvents that could soften the lacquer coating
> that protects the reflective layers of optical media.

This is highly debatable, but I personally wouldn't trust ANY
marker made in China (as it WILL be, even Sharpies are made in
China now, but at least they're still Sanford) which claims to
be "special for CD labeler" or something.

I've been using Sharpies for over a decade and no problem. Other
sources on the web confirm Sharpies as the implement of choice.

> You may be able to buy an ink jet printer PLUS a spare set
> of ink tanks (maybe even two extra sets) for the cost of
> ONE replacement toner cartridge for that laser printer.

When was the last time you've been to a computer store? And do
you have any idea of the relative usage lifespan of the two
kinds of printers?

In any case, again, *no labels* if you want to be certain your
disc will work 5 years from now.

OnlineLabels · Nov 26, 2007

You can check out a large selection of CD rom labels at the link
below. The pricing is significantly less and the selection is much
larger than the office supply store.

http://www.onlinelabels.com/labeltypecdrom.htm

In addition, we offer free software for printing onto the labels. You
can check out our software at the link below. No install is required
since it uses flash.

http://www.onlinelabels.com/maestro

Dave Carmany
OnlineLabels.com
-----------------------------------------------------------
CLICK. PRINT. STICK
http://www.onlinelabels.com
Blank Labels for laser and inkjet printers
-----------------------------------------------------------

On Nov 26, 5:45 am, thanatoid <wait...@the.exit.invalid> wrote:
> RobertVA <robert_c72athotm...@invalid.com> wrote innews:uFVWw$AMIHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:
>
> Excuse the starting top post, but does *anyone* bother reading
> the thread before repeating what others have said, sometimes
> several different people? Also, IMO you are giving some bad
> advice and you appear to misjudge the level of the OP's
> proficiency.
>
> > jameswalk...@invalid.com wrote:
> >> What ever happened to the good old days where all that was
> >> needed was a simple floppy disk, and files could be
> >> dragged and dropped from Windows, or use the "copy
> >> command" from dos.
>
> <SNIP>
>
> > CD-RW: Compact Disk Read/Write
>
> > Use for disks you expect to change or add data to in a
> > future session. These can be used in a manner similar to a
> > floppy IF, and ONLY IF, you install packet writing software
> > like Nero or CD Creator (usually comes with the drive -
> > probably something that Iomega Hot Burn Pro does). Note
> > that CD-RWs formatted with one publisher's packet writing
> > application may not be compatible with applications from
> > other publishers.
>
> As I mentioned in my reply, IMO understanding and messing about
> with packet writing is probably best left alone in this case.
>
> Also, for packet writing to work on 98 (which the OP uses)
> additional drivers MAY be needed.
>
> Also, discs burned in this manner may not be readable on some
> players. (This theoretically can be the case with ANY CD-R or
> DVD-R, but is much more likely when packet writing was used.)
>
> <SNIP>
>
> >> MP3/WMA Disc
> > A data disk containing audio recordings. Compatible with
> > SOME CD players and DVD players. Check the player's user
> > manual and or packaging for a listing of compatible formats
> > (MIGHT even be on the face plate). The compatible DVD
> > players might display an Explorer style music file list on
> > the TV screen. Many people don't mind the slightly lower
> > sound quality and the same blank can contain MP3 files from
> > dozens of music CDs
>
> I assume you mean 1 blank CD-R can store the equivalent of
> dozens of CVD's. That is a slight exaggeration unless you don't
> mind AM radio quality. 8-10 CD's' worth depending on bitrate if
> you want it to sound decent.
>
> >> Disc Copy
> > Can be used to duplicate a pressed (from the music store)
> > CD on a CD-R. Use the CD-R copy fir portable use, storing
> > the original at home. If the CD-R copy gets damaged or
> > stolen you can easily make another.
>
> >> CD Label
>
> >> MP3's are music, so why is there both a "music disc" and a
> >> "MP3/WMA" option?
>
> > Music disks for wider compatibility with players. MP3 on
> > data disks for higher capacity (the things can play for
> > days without repeating).
>
> DAYS without repeating? If you use 32 mono bitrate, maybe.
>
> >> I am sure the Data Disc is for backups and saving files
> >> off the hard drive. And I know that CD Label makeslabels
> >> (which mylaserprinter would unlikely be able to make.
>
> Any printer can printlabels, but as already mentioned, you
> should NEVER uselabels. The following paragraph is correct and
> certainly its implications are scary enough for me.
>
> > Check office supply stores for blanklabels. Look for
> > packages labeled for use inlaserprinters (the glue needs
> > to be formulated for the higher temperatures that fuse the
> > toner to the paper). Look near wherelaser/copier
> > compatible mailinglabelsare displayed. Make sure you
> > start with a kit that has a device to align thelabelson
> > the CD. You CAN NOT remove a label from a CD-R without
> > ruining the disk. The CD-R will be out of balance and
> > probably unreadable if the label is applied off center.
>
> No one who wants their CD-R's to last uses those kits.
>
> <SNIP>
>
> >> Do I need to manually copy the files to a special
> >> directory until I know I have no more than 700 megs (or is
> >> it 650, since several websites do not agree and list 650
> >> on some and 700 on other sites for the max capacity).
>
> > The Iomega Hot Burn Pro probably automatically creates a
> > temporary buffer on your hard drive containing the music or
> > other files and then "burns" the whole lot on the CD-R at
> > once. Pay attention to the "#x" speed labeling on the spool
> > of blanks for this process. Sometimes a lower speed than
> > what the package claims will be more reliable. Try not to
> > use any other applications during the actual burning
> > process.
>
> Now that *is* good advice, although I have a feeling doing
> extensive photo-retouching at the same time MIGHT be the last
> thing on the OP's mind as he is learning this.
>
> AFA temporary buffer, it probably won't work very well on his 98
> system (it's probably not a 3GHz with 2 GB's of RAM).
>
> To get a good disc, you should always make an ISO or UDF file
> first, in a way not unlike "manually copying the files to a
> special directory" which the OP mentioned.
>
> <SNIP>
>
> >> I'm seriously thinking that although it will cost more, I
> >> may be better off just buying a pile of those memory
> >> sticks for backing up my computer, and forgetting the CD
> >> burning. At least I got a CD player now.
>
> > Price would be awfully high. The amount of data involved
> > might even make the quantity of CD-Rs (or CD-RWs) an issue
> > for making a system backup anyway. It's becoming common for
> > computer users to use external hard drives connected to USB
> > ports for system backups. CD-Rs or CD-RWs may be useful for
> > data backups though (as long as video isn't involved).
>
> Hard drives fail, all the time. Well-burned and properly handled
> CD's do not.
>
> Also, CD-R/RW can store video, just much less of it than a DVD.
> Data is data.
>
> >> By the way, if I ever do get this thing to work, how can I
> >> label them with a pen or something like that? I dont have
> >> the printer to makelabelsand it all seems like too much
> >> hassle anyhow. But they do need some soft of label, even
> >> just numbering them would help. I have at least a dozen
> >> CDs that other people made for them, and none havelabels,
> >> so I got to install them one by one to see what is on
> >> them.
>
> > While in that office supply store look for special markers
> > designed for CDs. Their water based inks add a margin of
> > safety compared to the ink in regular permanent markers
> > containing solvents that could soften the lacquer coating
> > that protects the reflective layers of optical media.
>
> This is highly debatable, but I personally wouldn't trust ANY
> marker made in China (as it WILL be, even Sharpies are made in
> China now, but at least they're still Sanford) which claims to
> be "special for CD labeler" or something.
>
> I've been using Sharpies for over a decade and no problem. Other
> sources on the web confirm Sharpies as the implement of choice.
>
> > You may be able to buy an ink jet printer PLUS a spare set
> > of ink tanks (maybe even two extra sets) for the cost of
> > ONE replacement toner cartridge for thatlaserprinter.
>
> When was the last time you've been to a computer store? And do
> you have any idea of the relative usage lifespan of the two
> kinds of printers?
>
> In any case, again, *nolabels* if you want to be certain your
> disc will work 5 years from now.

Rod · Nov 26, 2007

<jameswalker7@invalid.com> wrote in message

Taking your issue of backup only,
You have USB, so just buy an external hard drive
and a case. It's that simple.

You can return to your familiar route of drag and drop copy.

You can be up and going in minutes, costs range from
$329 for 500Gb, to $149 for 120Gb that fits into your
shirt pocket.

The only issue is the USB, I can only get usb1.1 on
my w98se, IIRC that transfers 20Gb in about 4 hrs or so.

You can reserve your player for doing exactly that, I bought
"Hotburn" right form the beginning, before they went to iomega,
and the software was always a bit dicky imho.

philo · Nov 27, 2007

<jameswalker7@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:fagkk3hfkk5ok9h7cvrjno8ad5rb909sdk@4ax.com...
> What ever happened to the good old days where all that was needed was
> a simple floppy disk, and files could be dragged and dropped from
> Windows, or use the "copy command" from dos.
>
> After not even owning a CD player for years, I just bought an external
> Iomega ZipCD player and recorder, connected to my USB port. After a
> little hassle getting the drivers installed, it works fine, and I was
> able to install a few CD's that have been sitting on the shelf for the
> last several years.
>
> On the other hand, I have never burned a CD or DVD or anything. This
> drive came with Iomega Hot Burn Pro. I have played with it, but have
> not yet purchased any blanks. One thing I am not sure whether to get
> the Write once or Multi-write ones. Worse yet, which are which. In
> the store they had R and RW. What do these letters mean? I thought
> that R meant READ and RW meant READ-WRITE. But what good is a blank
> CD that is only readable? The Walmart clerk did not know what I was
> talking about (typical Walmart idiot), so I left the store not buying
> any discs because I did not know what to buy.
>
>

RW cd's are erasable, that's all...
they are more expensive and don't usually work at a high a speed as the "one
time" cd's

so don't bother with them just go for the cd R and don't worry about it...

this is no where near as complicated as you think it is...

I also got into computers in my old age...and it's no big deal to learn this
stuff

Bob Harris · Nov 27, 2007

CD burning can be a hassle, or it can be a breeze.

The difference is what burning software you have installed, and of course,
whether you actually read the manual on how to use it. If no paper manual
came with the software, look for a PDF file, or look on the support website
for a PDF copy.

With something like Easy CD Creator or Nero, one uses a
windows-explorer-like interface to selected files to burn to CD (or DVD).
There is usually a bar that indicates the total size of all files selected,
letting you know whether it will fit on one CD or not. If larger than one
CD, removing something from the selection list is as simple as highlight and
delete. The precise "delete" button may be an up arrow or similar, but the
manual will tell you those details.

CD or CD-R is write-once, then read only.
CD-RW is write many times, or re-writeable, with an option to erase some or
all of the information, depending on the format selected.

As far as the format of the CD, that depends entirely on where/how you want
to use it. "music" usually means in the format of professionally made music
CDs, and will play in most modern CD/DVD players, including those in cars.
MP3 is a compressed music format, which can play in computers, but only in a
few CD players. "data" CD is used to backup important files of all types,
including, XLS, DOC, JPG, MP3, AVI, etc, but can only be read in a computer.
There are several data formats, with Joliet being fairly universal.

"drag&drop", "DLA", "InCD", "UDF", etc refer to similar, but different,
formats that permits treating a rewriteable CD like a hard drive in windows
explorer. However, this is the least reliable way to place data on a CD,
and such a CD may not be readable in many PCs.

"bootable CD" means that it contains an operating system and can, if the PC
is set correctly, run the PC without the hard drive, or in case the version
of windows on the hard drive is corrupt. The simplest bootable CD is merely
an image of a bootable DOS floppy. More complex bootable CDs include the XP
CD (from Microsoft), Norton System Works or Antivirus CD (from Symantec),
KNOPPIX CD (free download as ISO image from internet), etc. "ISO" is one
common type of a file that is a bit-by-bit image of a CD. If you ever deal
with an ISO image, you need to place it on a CD using software with an
option like "burn from image".

"CD label" is an image, usually with text, that can be printed on a round
piece of paper with glue on the other side. You then place the label on a
CD. An alternative to paper labels is using a magic marker on the CD.
Another is laser-writing on the CD, which some modern printers can do with
special CDs.

When first learning how to write CDs, you might want to use CD-RW media,
even if you are writing "permanent" CDs. In case you fail to produce a
useable CD, you can then erase the media and try again. But, for long-term
storage, avoid CD-RW media, as it seems to be more sensitive to light and
heat than CD-R media.

<jameswalker7@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:fagkk3hfkk5ok9h7cvrjno8ad5rb909sdk@4ax.com...
> What ever happened to the good old days where all that was needed was
> a simple floppy disk, and files could be dragged and dropped from
> Windows, or use the "copy command" from dos.
>
> After not even owning a CD player for years, I just bought an external
> Iomega ZipCD player and recorder, connected to my USB port. After a
> little hassle getting the drivers installed, it works fine, and I was
> able to install a few CD's that have been sitting on the shelf for the
> last several years.
>
> On the other hand, I have never burned a CD or DVD or anything. This
> drive came with Iomega Hot Burn Pro. I have played with it, but have
> not yet purchased any blanks. One thing I am not sure whether to get
> the Write once or Multi-write ones. Worse yet, which are which. In
> the store they had R and RW. What do these letters mean? I thought
> that R meant READ and RW meant READ-WRITE. But what good is a blank
> CD that is only readable? The Walmart clerk did not know what I was
> talking about (typical Walmart idiot), so I left the store not buying
> any discs because I did not know what to buy.
>
> Then, when I finally do get the disks, what do I do next?
>
> The software has the following options to select.
> Music Disc
> Data Disc
> MP3/WMA Disc
> Disc Copy
> CD Label
>
> MP3's are music, so why is there both a "music disc" and a "MP3/WMA"
> option?
>
> I am sure the Data Disc is for backups and saving files off the hard
> drive. And I know that CD Label makes labels (which my laser printer
> would unlikely be able to make.
>
> Then I started to select a bunch of MP3 files on my harddrive and it
> told me that they will not all fit. Well, DUH..... Why does it not
> tell me where to stop, assuming I will need several discs?
>
> Do I need to manually copy the files to a special directory until I
> know I have no more than 700 megs (or is it 650, since several
> websites do not agree and list 650 on some and 700 on other sites for
> the max capacity).
>
> Then it says that MP3's can not be played on a standard CD player on a
> stereo. What's the point of putting them on a CD if they wont play
> (other than as a backup).
>
> On to the Data Disc.
> Am I going to have to manually select files till I reach the 650 or
> 700 meg limit? I dont see any option to have it just tell me to
> insert another disc when one is full.
>
> I spent half a day reading help files and websites, and this seems to
> be the most complicated thing any computer can do. Like I said, what
> ever happened to the good old days of floppies. Just copy the files
> and the job is done. It looks like with CD's there are hours if not
> days of preparation required before making each and every CD.
>
> Now I know why I never wanted to own one of these cd burners.
>
> I'm seriously thinking that although it will cost more, I may be
> better off just buying a pile of those memory sticks for backing up my
> computer, and forgetting the CD burning. At least I got a CD player
> now.
>
> By the way, if I ever do get this thing to work, how can I label them
> with a pen or something like that? I dont have the printer to make
> labels and it all seems like too much hassle anyhow. But they do need
> some soft of label, even just numbering them would help. I have at
> least a dozen CDs that other people made for them, and none have
> labels, so I got to install them one by one to see what is on them.
>
> Either I'm too old for this, or I just dont understand any of it.
>
> By the way I'm runing 98SE.
>
> Jim
>

Bill in Co. · Nov 27, 2007

philo wrote:
> <jameswalker7@invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:fagkk3hfkk5ok9h7cvrjno8ad5rb909sdk@4ax.com...
>> What ever happened to the good old days where all that was needed was
>> a simple floppy disk, and files could be dragged and dropped from
>> Windows, or use the "copy command" from dos.
>>
>> After not even owning a CD player for years, I just bought an external
>> Iomega ZipCD player and recorder, connected to my USB port. After a
>> little hassle getting the drivers installed, it works fine, and I was
>> able to install a few CD's that have been sitting on the shelf for the
>> last several years.
>>
>> On the other hand, I have never burned a CD or DVD or anything. This
>> drive came with Iomega Hot Burn Pro. I have played with it, but have
>> not yet purchased any blanks. One thing I am not sure whether to get
>> the Write once or Multi-write ones. Worse yet, which are which. In
>> the store they had R and RW. What do these letters mean? I thought
>> that R meant READ and RW meant READ-WRITE. But what good is a blank
>> CD that is only readable? The Walmart clerk did not know what I was
>> talking about (typical Walmart idiot), so I left the store not buying
>> any discs because I did not know what to buy.
>>
>
> RW cd's are erasable, that's all...
> they are more expensive and don't usually work at a high a speed as the
"one
> time" cd's
>
> so don't bother with them just go for the cd R and don't worry about
it...

Or CD -R (not +R), which seem to be more compatible with more players, esp.
the older ones.

I agree - skip the RW types, and keep out of trouble that way (and avoid
some potential problems)

> this is no where near as complicated as you think it is...

Well, it can be - it really depends on how far into it you get.

> I also got into computers in my old age...and it's no big deal to learn
this
> stuff

True enough. But there is a learning curve.

thanatoid · Nov 27, 2007

"Bob Harris" <rharris270[SPAM]@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:#PAIBeUMIHA.2432@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl:

> CD burning can be a hassle, or it can be a breeze.

<about 180 lines INCLUDING the OP snipped>

I myself don't always, and sometimes regret it, but sometimes
you just never know. In this case, you really *should* have at
least looked at the dates.

I am personally rather upset by the fact that I and several
other people (you included) have wasted a GOOD amount of time
replying to Mr. Walker who, by all appearances, has, after
reading the first 2 replies, decided he will forget about the
whole thing and just use his external Iomega unit as a CD
player. Or worse, and frankly, hard to imagine but /possible/,
has just decided he will sulk and not say another word and/or
possibly never ask for "help" again.

I have gotten used to hardly anyone thanking others for advice,
which can be annoying, especially when someone has provided a
long reply - as you all know, they don't exactly write
themselves! - but this takes it to another level.

It has actually made me really wonder about "participating"
(whether I actually "know" anything helpful or not is another
matter, thank you Gary

I OFTEN think about the psychology of the average (is there such
a beast?) "help group" respondent (the average poster, of late
anyway, appears to be an arrogant clueless GG'r who is too lazy
or stupid to do a web search).

t.

pjp · Nov 28, 2007

CDs - Unlike other respondants, I'd suggest buy a few RW's so you can play
with them and learn how to make a data versus a music cd etc. without it
costing money and making coasters as the RW's can be erased and used again.
Personally, I've had few problems with RW's over R's. Gear that can't see
RW's is getting old so rarer nowadays and I've had no more problems using
them in pcs than any other format. Only diff is RWs only hold 650 megs
where-as Rs hold 700 megs.

DVD's - complicated by the two formats "+R/+RW" and "-R/-RW". PC drives are
getting rarer that can only read one of the formats. However, that doesn't
seem so true for home dvd players. I've often had to burn both formats when
first checking which works for some friend wanted something. Expect home dvd
players to be a lot more picky with the RW variety in either format.
Personally, I've found the cheaper a dvd player the better a chance it plays
everything, in my case of particular concern is dvds filled with mp3s.

Note - dual-layer dvds expect nothing when used on any other drive. May
work, may not is my experience. Thankfully my cheap dvd player sees DVD
+R-DL's so it sees and plays flawlessly one disk with almost 2000 tunes on
it!!!

"philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:%23jmHUSUMIHA.4272@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
> <jameswalker7@invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:fagkk3hfkk5ok9h7cvrjno8ad5rb909sdk@4ax.com...
> > What ever happened to the good old days where all that was needed was
> > a simple floppy disk, and files could be dragged and dropped from
> > Windows, or use the "copy command" from dos.
> >
> > After not even owning a CD player for years, I just bought an external
> > Iomega ZipCD player and recorder, connected to my USB port. After a
> > little hassle getting the drivers installed, it works fine, and I was
> > able to install a few CD's that have been sitting on the shelf for the
> > last several years.
> >
> > On the other hand, I have never burned a CD or DVD or anything. This
> > drive came with Iomega Hot Burn Pro. I have played with it, but have
> > not yet purchased any blanks. One thing I am not sure whether to get
> > the Write once or Multi-write ones. Worse yet, which are which. In
> > the store they had R and RW. What do these letters mean? I thought
> > that R meant READ and RW meant READ-WRITE. But what good is a blank
> > CD that is only readable? The Walmart clerk did not know what I was
> > talking about (typical Walmart idiot), so I left the store not buying
> > any discs because I did not know what to buy.
> >
> >
>
>
> RW cd's are erasable, that's all...
> they are more expensive and don't usually work at a high a speed as the
"one
> time" cd's
>
> so don't bother with them just go for the cd R and don't worry about
it...
>
>
> this is no where near as complicated as you think it is...
>
> I also got into computers in my old age...and it's no big deal to learn
this
> stuff
>
>

lavron@altavista.com · Nov 29, 2007

On Nov 27, 8:55 pm, thanatoid <wait...@the.exit.invalid> wrote:
> "Bob Harris" <rharris270[SPAM]@hotmail.com> wrote innews:#PAIBeUMIHA.2432@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl:
>
> > CD burning can be a hassle, or it can be a breeze.
>
> <about 180 lines INCLUDING the OP snipped>
>
> I myself don't always, and sometimes regret it, but sometimes
> you just never know. In this case, you really *should* have at
> least looked at the dates.
>
> I am personally rather upset by the fact that I and several
> other people (you included) have wasted a GOOD amount of time
> replying to Mr. Walker who, by all appearances, has, after
> reading the first 2 replies, decided he will forget about the
> whole thing and just use his external Iomega unit as a CD
> player. Or worse, and frankly, hard to imagine but /possible/,
> has just decided he will sulk and not say another word and/or
> possibly never ask for "help" again.
>
> I have gotten used to hardly anyone thanking others for advice,
> which can be annoying, especially when someone has provided a
> long reply - as you all know, they don't exactly write
> themselves! - but this takes it to another level.
>
> It has actually made me really wonder about "participating"
> (whether I actually "know" anything helpful or not is another
> matter, thank you Gary

>
> I OFTEN think about the psychology of the average (is there such
> a beast?) "help group" respondent (the average poster, of late
> anyway, appears to be an arrogant clueless GG'r who is too lazy
> or stupid to do a web search).
>
> t.

I hope I can somewhat reduce your frustrations. I want you to know
that I greatly appreciate the advice you and other respondents provide
in this thread. Thank you all very much.

I am a novice when it comes to CD/DVD recording. I found it hard to
obtain useful information. This thread, which I encountered by chance,
is god sent. It provides a lot of answers to my questions, as well as
the perspective of the experienced, and also differences in opinions.
Great. It is likely to dramatically reduce my learning curve.

I also want to thank you for your reference to www.cdrfaq.org and to
www.goldenhawk.com, which I was not aware of prior to reading this
thread. The former provides plenty of information, and the latter
offers software worth considering against the more common competition.

I hope that you and other respondents can answer those questions of
mine which are still remain unanswered. I would like to be able to
record, on a single CD in one recording run, a number of audio musical
pieces, followed by a number of computer software files. I want the
audio to be playable by a CD player with the ability to select at
random any recorded musical piece. The files should, of course, be
readable by a computer with the respective software. I have just
received an E-mail message from a Nero Support representative telling
me Nero provides such capability under the name CDExtra. My questions:

1) Does Golden Hawk software provide such capability?

2) If CD-R(W) is better for audio recording and CD+R(W) is better for
computer data, which one is better for audio and data on one CD disk?

With many, many thanks in advance

thanatoid · Nov 29, 2007

lavron@altavista.com wrote in
news:95fcd955-b38c-47c4-86df-962a71e659b2@d27g2000prf.googlegr
oups.com:

<SNIP>

Thank you, it was very nice to read what you said. I still
wonder about Mr. Walker.

> I have just received an E-mail message from a
> Nero Support representative telling me Nero provides such
> capability under the name CDExtra. My questions:
>
> 1) Does Golden Hawk software provide such capability?

Frankly, I don't know. Their help file is good but short and
fairly basic. That's where cdrfaq helps.

AFAIK (and what I know I know from the sources I've provided,
and other snippets of [hopefully correct] info on the web and
here) you can record a variety of different data (i.e. music,
photos, text, database files, etc) to a single disc.

When CD-R's first came out there was concern that you could blow
out your speakers and ears when your CD player tried to read
computer data. I believe that was unwarranted, since the CD
looks for id's for wav files and mp3 and JPG and even WMA/WMV
etc files (IF capable of playing them - newer DVD players are)
and then responds accordingly.
IOW, while I haven't tried it, I believe if you put in a CD-R
full of text and database files, it will not recognize it as
valid data and either reject the disc or just sit there. Try at
your own risk.

To finally answer your question, I think any good program will
do it. I personally hate Nero (as I probably mentioned in at
least one of the posts) but if IT can do it, SOME others will as
well.

I *have* accidentally left txt files in directories of mp3 files
I burned and then played the disc in a DVD player - it just
ignored the text files entirely.

A "CD" player (i.e. something which plays store bought CD's
which contain wav data the tracks of which show up as 01.cda
(etc.), size 44 bytes IIRC, in a computer file manager) will
ONLY play WAV's. If there is text or other data, it will either
ignore it or make a lot of nasty noise (like an analog modem
when connecting I imagine).

A DVD player will play wav (i.e. regular store CD's or CD-R's
you made yourself) as well as CD-R's and DVD's of all formats
with more and more "acceptable" data (like jpg's and WMA etc.).

The "random selection" of what you listen to is up to you and
the remote control, and the capabilities of the player.

MY question is, why bother? CD-R's are less than a quarter. Make
a music CD-R (i.e. with WAV format files) and make another CD-R
with your computer data files, Makes no sense (to me) to mix
them, although it CAN be done.

> 2) If CD-R(W) is better for audio recording and CD+R(W) is
> better for computer data, which one is better for audio and
> data on one CD disk?

There ARE no CD-R(W) and CD+R(W).

The dash in CD-R or CD-RW was used as in "normal" English, but
when DVD-R's and DVD-RW's came out with their 5 (or more) +/-
and data formats, people started getting confused.

There are only CD-R's and CD-RW's, and the second one is
rewriteable between 50-200 (my experience, quality brands) and
1000 times (manufacturers' claims) and costs a few dollars,
while the first costs less than a quarter and is "use once"
only.

For a variety of reasons, rewriteable DVD's are largely
replacing CD-RW's for most consumers. CD-R's are still the best
for permanent backup/storage of 600-700MB of data per disc.

The discs are SO cheap, there is no reason not to put only 100MB
on a disc to keep things organized and separated, just as MANY
people used to write ONE tiny file and then go to a new floppy
(needless to say, NEVER labeling ANYTHING), except this makes
sense, and having one 10KB file on a 1.44 MB floppy without
labeling it was just stupid.

All data is data - music, pix, movies, text, web pages, etc.

Just buy quality media. There is no "better" AFA quality -
although I suppose SOME might argue, just like some people claim
using Monster Cable and a 12 thousand dollar pair of speakers
make them hear twice as much detail as on a $1,000 stereo. That
kind of stuff is for people who like pretty and expensive toys,
not for people who like music.

Regards and thanks again for your kind comments.
t.

Burning CD's is a HUGE HASSLE

jameswalker7@invalid.com

Bill in Co.

MEB

jameswalker7@invalid.com

thanatoid

thanatoid

thanatoid

Jeff Richards

RobertVA

Bill in Co.

thanatoid

OnlineLabels

Rod

philo

Bob Harris

Bill in Co.

thanatoid

pjp

lavron@altavista.com

thanatoid

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