Scandisk and external 320GB USB HD

[MEB]

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:fvfqb3ljddidpvlaah756828emvbc62k36@4ax.com...
| On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 04:29:04 -0400, "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com>
| put finger to keyboard and composed:
| >"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
| >news9vnb3l1ucqasfm9ejr3575uvogffbbuin@4ax.com...

[deleted materials]

| > OR tries to write mbr preparing for fat32 which seems to mess up some
flash
| >drives? {Obviously after formatting either would be noticeable.}
| >
| >http://thestarman.pcministry.com/index.html
| >http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/index.html#MBR
| >http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/95BMEMBR.htm - fat32 MBR
| >http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/STDMBR.htm - standard/old MBR
| >http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/WIN98FDB.htm - 98 floppy FDBR
| >http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/DOS50FDB.htm - DOS 5.00 FDBR
| >http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/index.html#PT - partition tables
| >
| > It would be interesting to see what it looked like with a disk/hex
editor
| >after the attempts...
|
| See http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/
|
| 2GB flash drive boot sector (FAT16):
| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/2GB_F_BOO_FAT16.BIN
|
| 2GB flash drive MBR text dump (FAT32):
| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/2GB_F_MBR.txt
|
| 2GB flash drive MBR binary image (FAT32):
| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/2GB_F_MBR_FAT32.bin
|
| 2GB flash drive track 0 binary image (FAT32):
| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/2GB_F_TRK0.bin
|
| The above image contains the remnants of the original FAT16 FAT
| tables. I used "fdisk /actok" to turn off integrity checking,
| otherwise the sectors would normally be filled with zeroes (I think).
|
| 13GB hard disc track 0 (Paragon Boot Manager):
| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/13GB_HD_TRK0.bin
|
| 6GB hard disc track 0 (EZ-Drive HD overlay):
| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/6GB_HD_TRK0.bin
|
| 320GB hard disc MBR and track 0:
| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/320GB_MBR.BIN
| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/320GB_MBR.txt
| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/320GB_TRK0.bin
|
| The above images were taken after the 320GB drive had been attached to
| the XP machine. The root directory contains a Recycled folder and a
| System Volume Information folder. And yes, it *is* annoying.
|
| - Franc Zabkar
| --
| Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Thanks Franc, still looking at those files .... got some really
interesting/strange inclusions [using WinHex to view]will respond when done
....

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
________

 

[MEB]

I have included some code, make sure its cut from all responses [dang near
like alt.binaries or something]:

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:fvfqb3ljddidpvlaah756828emvbc62k36@4ax.com...
| On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 04:29:04 -0400, "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com>
| put finger to keyboard and composed:
|
|
| >"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
| >news9vnb3l1ucqasfm9ejr3575uvogffbbuin@4ax.com...
|
| > Ah, so you were concerned with DOS aspects.. boy you ARE a die hard DOS
guy
| >...
|
| I really had no alternative. The Windows Orangeware drivers were
| crippled, and I was experiencing hangs which appeared to be related to
| Explorer. Dropping back to DOS reduced the number of variables.
|
| The added benefit is that I now have a method of backing up a damaged
| file system without opening up the box.

Good point of course. Though I'm not sure your going to be doing much DOS
activity on that disk .. [hopefully]

|
| >|
| >| Anyway, I *eventually* found a USB 2.0 driver (USBASPI.SYS, version
| >| 2.15) that works in DOS. It is available in this archive:
| >|
| >| http://panasonic.co.jp/pcc/products/drive/other/driver/f2h_usb.exe
| >
| > I had tried an older Panasonic driver, with various success... I will
| >download this one JUST IN CASE..
|
| The 2.06 driver displays much more verbose connection information,
| such as which device is connected to which controller. From that
| standpoint it may be a better troubleshooting tool.

Sounds like it.

|
| >| I tried several others, including an earlier version (2.06), but they
| >| would either not see the SiS 700x controllers at all, or would only
| >| detect and install the SiS 7001.
| >
| > Leaving just 1.1, gotcha..
| >
| >|
| >| The HD driver that I used is DI1000DD.SYS which is available here:
| >|
| >| http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/mhairu.zip
| >|
| >| The AMI BIOS has native support for USB 1.1 but not USB 2.0.
| >
| > So it was the *BIOS* that was limiting to 1.1, okay
|
| Yes, but you wouldn't expect this when you consider that there is an
| entry in the BIOS setup which explicitly enables or disables USB 2.0
| support. I now believe that this setting merely enables or disables
| the SiS 7002 controller. It doesn't appear to enable or disable any
| USB 2.0 *code*.

Apparently not... so any access WITHOUT a driver would be limited to the
7001 / USB 1.1

|
| >| To isolate the hanging issue, I used a 2GB flash drive and booted to
| >| DOS using the above drivers. I then wrote about 1.9GB in 4 files at a
| >| speed of 1.2 MB/s. Next I copied the files back to drive C: and
| >| verified them. The read speed was 9.5 MB/s, and the system was stable
| >| throughout.
| >
| > Respectable speed
| >
| >|
| >| I then tried to repeat this test with the 320GB HD. I was able to
| >| reliably retrieve several gigabytes of data in more than 2000 files at
| >| a speed of 20.6 MB/s. However, whenever I tried to write a large
| >| amount of data to the external drive, either in a large number of
| >| small files (~3MB), or in a small number of large files (~1GB), the
| >| machine *always* hung. So it looks like the random hanging in Windows
| >| is not an Explorer issue, but most likely a hardware one, especially
| >| since it also happens on my socket 7 box. Both boxes use SiS 7001 OHCI
| >| controllers.
| >
| > Soooo, it does look like the SIS 7001 MAY be the culprit
|
| I now suspect that neither the SiS 7001 or 7002 controllers are
| compatible with the JM20337 chip in the external box. For a while,
| though, I thought that there may have been a gremlin in the BIOS.
|
| I say this because version 2.06 of the Panasonic USBASPI driver would
| produce this message (annotations added):
|
| Device
| | Function
| Bus | |
| | | |
| Controller : 00-03-0 VID=1039h PID=7001h (1019h-1808h) OHCI
| : MEM=CFFFD000h-CFFFDFFFh(4KBytes)
|
| Controller : 00-03-1 VID=1039h PID=7001h (1019h-1808h) OHCI
| : MEM=CFFFE000h-CFFFEFFFh(4KBytes)
|
| ERROR : EHCI memory mapped I/O can not be assigned.

Opps, that looks like something is already mapped.., like Video maybe ...
no commandline options to assign elsewhere?

|
| My suspicions were compounded when I actually dumped the ESCD table in
| the flash BIOS chip (using Uniflash). I say this because there were no
| references to an SiS 7001 device, only three instances of the SiS 7002
| at bus 0, device 3, and functions 0,1,2. But this turned out to be a
| red herring. To make matters worse, the Phoenix utility that I used
| for my analysis
| (http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/BIOSutil/Phoenix/nvram120.exe) had a
| bug which parsed one of the devices (PCI bridge) incorrectly, and this
| had me questioning the validity of the results until I confirmed them
| with Uniflash.

Okay, private comm or can you post it?

|
| >| My next step is to thrash this HD on my friend's XP/Intel PC by
| >| filling it full of data. Depending on the outcome, I'll next hook up
| >| the drive to my IDE port and run Seagate's diagnostics through it.
| >
| > AH, not those old diag tools we discussed in other hard drive
discussions
| >before, I hope, kinda pushing that doncha think..
|
| Last night I wrote 300 1GB files to the drive from within a CMD window
| on an Intel/XP box. The write speed was about 21MB/s and there were no
| problems. A surface scan found no bad sectors.

Did you expect any? Why, XP has generic support... and should have been
patched to handle almost anything you wanted to do. .

Its 98 that your interested in or supposedly testing,, so are you going to
use the upgraded Maximus Decim drivers or what?

|
| > Are you going to look at the disk [first few tracks] for XP residuals?
|
| See end of post.
|
| >| During my testing I discovered that the 2GB flash drive is detected by
| >| the BIOS as an external floppy drive and subsequently by DOS as drive
| >| B:. However, the way its file structure is seen by DOS depends on how
| >| it is partitioned and/or formatted.
| >|
| >| If I enable USB legacy mouse/keyboard/floppy support, and if the flash
| >| drive has no partition, only a boot sector, then it is detected as a
| >| floppy drive. In this case it takes drive letter B:, but only in real
| >| DOS. A directory listing produces sensible output.
| >
| > Uhm, okay, so was the Panasonic driver loaded?
|
| No, just plain DOS.
|
| >| In Windows Explorer the flash drive is detected as a HD and is
| >| assigned the next available drive letter, eg D:. However, drive B: is
| >| not listed. If I now drop back into a Windows DOS box and attempt to
| >| access drive B: (eg dir b, then the machine locks up and requires a
| >| reboot.
| >
| > Seems you've located another conflict/limitation between BIOS and OS.
The
| >drive can not be BOTH a floppy AND a hard drive, with different
assignments
| >[drive, memory, etc.]...
|
| >| Alternatively, if the flash drive is partitioned with FDisk, then DOS
| >| outputs gibberish in response to dir b:. I suspect this is because DOS
| >| tries to interpret the MBR as a boot sector and then has trouble
| >| finding the root directory.
| >
| > Might it be a fat12 vs fat16 issue?
|
| The flash drive was originally formatted to look like a 2GB FAT16
| floppy diskette. By that I mean that there was no partition, only a
| boot sector.
|
| boot sector | FAT #1 | FAT #2 | Root | File
| FAT 16 | | | directory | area
|
|
| The flash drive has now been partitioned and formatted as a FAT32 HD.
|
| Sector 0 | Track 0 | FAT32 | | | |
| MBR | | Boot | FAT#1 | FAT#2 | Root | File
| Partition | 63 sectors | Parameter | | | dir | area
| table | | Block | | | |
|
| In both cases the media descriptor byte is/was F8 (= hard disc)
| whereas a real floppy diskette has a media descriptor of F0 (= unknown
| media type) and a FAT12 file system.
|
| I think what is happening is this. DOS thinks that the flash drive is
| a floppy (because the BIOS says so), which causes it to misinterpret
| the MBR code as a boot sector. DOS then uses the "boot sector" data to
| locate what it thinks is the root directory, but instead ends up in
| some strange part of the disk.
|
| > Most articles describe the format on flash drives as fat16 [1 and 2 gig
| >flash], so would it be that when a DOS box [is that what you used?] or
pure
| >DOS/command prompt FDisk attempts to write fat12 data/mbr [BIOS routines
| >used - seen as floppy] which does not support 2 gig, using the Panasonic
| >driver you found, in the process? [Scratches head, huh, how the heck
would
| >it do that,,, fdisk doesn't work on floppy drives,,, but .... between the
| >BIOS and the various drivers ???]
|
| See above.
|
| > OR tries to write mbr preparing for fat32 which seems to mess up some
flash
| >drives? {Obviously after formatting either would be noticeable.}
| >
| >http://thestarman.pcministry.com/index.html
| >http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/index.html#MBR
| >http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/95BMEMBR.htm - fat32 MBR
| >http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/STDMBR.htm - standard/old MBR
| >http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/WIN98FDB.htm - 98 floppy FDBR
| >http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/DOS50FDB.htm - DOS 5.00 FDBR
| >http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/index.html#PT - partition tables
| >
| > It would be interesting to see what it looked like with a disk/hex
editor
| >after the attempts...
|
| See http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/
|
| 2GB flash drive boot sector (FAT16):
| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/2GB_F_BOO_FAT16.BIN

So this was what, the original? [BTW: this is the first flash I have looked
at. If this is the original/factory I will make a specific template, and
save for future recovery.] What flash stick maker?

I see the BS[BPB]:

OEM - ,\}2#IHC *Flash Fat 16* reference *2GB_FLASH* volume label Ext.
boot signature (29h) - 29 File system - Fat 16
Sectors over 32MB - 3963904 heads 255, sectors per fat - 242, etc., and,
BIOS drive (hex, HD=8x) - 80 Media descriptor (hex) - F8


|
| 2GB flash drive MBR text dump (FAT32):
| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/2GB_F_MBR.txt
|
| 2GB flash drive MBR binary image (FAT32):
| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/2GB_F_MBR_FAT32.bin

Partition type OB, sectors in part1 3935862

Master Bootstrap loader code [in case anyone was wondering] -

<CODE>
33 C0 8E D0 BC 20 7C FB 50 07 50 1F FC BE 1B 7C BF 1B 06 50 57 B9 E5 01 F3
A4 CB BE BE 07 B1 04 38 2C 7C 09 75 15 83 C6 10 E2 F5 CD 18 8B 14 8B EE 83
C6 10 49 74 16 38 2C 74 F6 BE 10 07 4E AC 3C 20 74 FA BB 07 20 B4 0E CD 10
EB F2 89 46 25 96 8A 46 04 B4 06 3C 0E 74 11 B4 0B 3C 0C 74 05 3A C4 75 2B
40 C6 46 25 06 75 24 BB AA 55 50 B4 41 CD 13 58 72 16 81 FB 55 AA 75 10 F6
C1 01 74 0B 8A E0 88 56 24 C7 06 A1 06 EB 1E 88 66 04 BF 0A 20 B8 01 02 8B
DC 33 C9 83 FF 05 7F 03 8B 4E 25 03 4E 02 CD 13 72 29 BE 46 07 81 3E FE 7D
55 AA 74 5A 83 EF 05 7F DA 85 F6 75 83 BE 27 07 EB 8A 98 91 52 99 03 46 08
13 56 0A E8 12 20 5A EB D5 4F 74 E4 33 C0 CD 13 EB B8 20 20 20 20 20 20 56
33 F6 56 56 52 50 06 53 51 BE 10 20 56 8B F4 50 52 B8 20 42 8A 56 24 CD 13
5A 58 8D 64 10 72 0A 40 75 01 42 80 C7 02 E2 F7 F8 5E C3 EB 74 49 6E 76 61
6C 69 64 20 70 61 72 74 69 74 69 6F 6E 20 74 61 62 6C 65 20 45 72 72 6F 72
20 6C 6F 61 64 69 6E 67 20 6F 70 65 72 61 74 69 6E 67 20 73 79 73 74 65 6D
20 4D 69 73 73 69 6E 67 20 6F 70 65 72 61 74 69 6E 67 20 73 79 73 74 65 6D
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 8B FC 1E 57 8B F5 CB 20 20 20 20 20 20
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20
</CODE>

|
| 2GB flash drive track 0 binary image (FAT32):
| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/2GB_F_TRK0.bin

OB partition -

Did you notice the hex 00 through hex 3E [64 PER except for the 3E], track
2 must have continued ...
F8 FF FF FF B5 5C 04 00
<CODE>øÿÿÿµ\ </CODE>
FD 3D FE 3D FF 3D 00 3E
<CODE>ý=þ=ÿ= ></CODE>

|
| The above image contains the remnants of the original FAT16 FAT
| tables. I used "fdisk /actok" to turn off integrity checking,
| otherwise the sectors would normally be filled with zeroes (I think).

Huh...

|
| 13GB hard disc track 0 (Paragon Boot Manager):
| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/13GB_HD_TRK0.bin
|
| 6GB hard disc track 0 (EZ-Drive HD overlay):
| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/6GB_HD_TRK0.bin
|
| 320GB hard disc MBR and track 0:
| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/320GB_MBR.BIN

Uhm, was this AFTER installing in XP or after formatting in XP?
Standard 32 template applied is screwed, NT template applied results in
this:

Shows an 0C partition type signature forward/reversed {6C364832 - 3248366C
= NT specific} sectors in partition - 625137282 and,

Master bootstrap loader code [again in case anyone was wondering or wishes
to compare]:

<CODE>
33 C0 8E D0 BC 20 7C FB 50 07 50 1F FC BE 1B 7C BF 1B 06 50 57 B9 E5 01 F3
A4 CB BE BE 07 B1 04 38 2C 7C 09 75 15 83 C6 10 E2 F5 CD 18 8B 14 8B EE 83
C6 10 49 74 16 38 2C 74 F6 BE 10 07 4E AC 3C 20 74 FA BB 07 20 B4 0E CD 10
EB F2 89 46 25 96 8A 46 04 B4 06 3C 0E 74 11 B4 0B 3C 0C 74 05 3A C4 75 2B
40 C6 46 25 06 75 24 BB AA 55 50 B4 41 CD 13 58 72 16 81 FB 55 AA 75 10 F6
C1 01 74 0B 8A E0 88 56 24 C7 06 A1 06 EB 1E 88 66 04 BF 0A 20 B8 01 02 8B
DC 33 C9 83 FF 05 7F 03 8B 4E 25 03 4E 02 CD 13 72 29 BE 46 07 81 3E FE 7D
55 AA 74 5A 83 EF 05 7F DA 85 F6 75 83 BE 27 07 EB 8A 98 91 52 99 03 46 08
13 56 0A E8 12 20 5A EB D5 4F 74 E4 33 C0 CD 13 EB B8 20 20 81 07 54 18 56
33 F6 56 56 52 50 06 53 51 BE 10 20 56 8B F4 50 52 B8 20 42 8A 56 24 CD 13
5A 58 8D 64 10 72 0A 40 75 01 42 80 C7 02 E2 F7 F8 5E C3 EB 74 49 6E 76 61
6C 69 64 20 70 61 72 74 69 74 69 6F 6E 20 74 61 62 6C 65 20 45 72 72 6F 72
20 6C 6F 61 64 69 6E 67 20 6F 70 65 72 61 74 69 6E 67 20 73 79 73 74 65 6D
20 4D 69 73 73 69 6E 67 20 6F 70 65 72 61 74 69 6E 67 20 73 79 73 74 65 6D
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 8B FC 1E 57 8B F5 CB 20 20 20 20 20 20
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20
</CODE>

| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/320GB_MBR.txt
| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/320GB_TRK0.bin

Same as above: signature, partition type, etc.
Part1 Start Head 1 Start Sector 1 Start Cyl 0 End Head 254 End Sector
63, End Cyl 0 Sectors preceding 64 Sectors in Part1 - 625137282 ...
So nothing shows in track0... hmm, next track? End of disk?

|
| The above images were taken after the 320GB drive had been attached to
| the XP machine. The root directory contains a Recycled folder and a
| System Volume Information folder. And yes, it *is* annoying.
|
| - Franc Zabkar
| --
| Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Oh, its more than merely *annoying* ... you really have to wonder why
Microsoft *brands* everything XP and Vista touch [not really of course, it
is rather obvious why]

Anyway, items noted and saved for future reference.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
________

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 23:23:11 -0400, "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com>
put finger to keyboard and composed:

>"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
>news:fvfqb3ljddidpvlaah756828emvbc62k36@4ax.com...

>| I say this because version 2.06 of the Panasonic USBASPI driver would
>| produce this message:

>| ERROR : EHCI memory mapped I/O can not be assigned.

> Opps, that looks like something is already mapped.., like Video maybe ...

I thought the same, until I looked into the ESCD.

>no commandline options to assign elsewhere?

No.

>| My suspicions were compounded when I actually dumped the ESCD table ...

> Okay, private comm or can you post it?

I don't really want to dwell on this subject, but here are the data
anyway:
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/ESCD/

Look at the L7S7A2 files. The M571 files are for my old socket 7
board. You should see no conflicts in the memory address ranges.

>| Last night I wrote 300 1GB files to the drive from within a CMD window
>| on an Intel/XP box. The write speed was about 21MB/s and there were no
>| problems. A surface scan found no bad sectors.
>
> Did you expect any?

Bad sectors can sometimes cause a system to stall for a long period.
I've just been through this with two 20GB Fujitsu drives.

>Its 98 that your interested in or supposedly testing,, so are you going to
>use the upgraded Maximus Decim drivers or what?

First I need to obtain drivers for the USB 2.0 EHCI host controller
and root hub. USB 1.1 is just too slow. I've looked at the various
Win98SE drivers packaged with several PCI USB cards, but all appear to
be licenced versions of the Orangeware driver.

Currently I have version 3.1 of the MD mass storage drivers on both
boxes.

<snip>

>| See http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/
>|
>| 2GB flash drive boot sector (FAT16):
>| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/2GB_F_BOO_FAT16.BIN
>
>So this was what, the original?

Yes, except that I've added a volume name.

>| 2GB flash drive track 0 binary image (FAT32):
>| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/2GB_F_TRK0.bin
>
>OB partition -
>
> Did you notice the hex 00 through hex 3E [64 PER except for the 3E], track
>2 must have continued ...
>F8 FF FF FF B5 5C 04 00

Track 2 is part of FAT#1.

Track 1 starts with a FAT32 boot sector ...

EB 5A 90 2C 6E 5A 58 54-49 48 43 00 02 08 20 00

>| The above image contains the remnants of the original FAT16 FAT
>| tables. I used "fdisk /actok" to turn off integrity checking,
>| otherwise the sectors would normally be filled with zeroes (I think).
>
>Huh...

Fdisk wrote to the MBR (absolute sector 0), but left all other sectors
in track 0 untouched. Because the flash drive was originally formatted
like a floppy, track 0 still contains the original FAT#1 info.

>| 320GB hard disc MBR and track 0:
>| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/320GB_MBR.BIN
>
>Uhm, was this AFTER installing in XP or after formatting in XP?

Fdisked and formatted in Win98SE, and then attached to XP system.
Snapshots were taken after exposure to XP.

> Shows an 0C partition type signature forward/reversed {6C364832 - 3248366C
>= NT specific} sectors in partition - 625137282 and,

OK, so Win XP wrote an "NT Drive Serial Number" at offsets 1B8h
through 1BBh. FWIW Paragon Partition Manager appears to write similar
info at 1B4h through 1B7h.

>| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/320GB_MBR.txt
>| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/320GB_TRK0.bin
>
> Same as above: signature, partition type, etc.

> So nothing shows in track0... hmm, next track? End of disk?

I'll follow up with a link to this info, but, with respect, I really
have no desire to pursue XP related stuff in this group. As it is now,
I think a lot of this thread is already way off topic.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

 

[MEB]

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:fovvb39q09lu7nhl8kkt04fdnb0lg9galr@4ax.com...
| On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 23:23:11 -0400, "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com>
| put finger to keyboard and composed:
|
| >"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
| >news:fvfqb3ljddidpvlaah756828emvbc62k36@4ax.com...
|
| > So nothing shows in track0... hmm, next track? End of disk?
|
| I'll follow up with a link to this info, but, with respect, I really
| have no desire to pursue XP related stuff in this group. As it is now,
| I think a lot of this thread is already way off topic.
|
| - Franc Zabkar
| --
| Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
||


|| Anyway, items noted and saved for future reference.
||
|| --
|| MEB
| ________
|

Ah sure, note the above ...
Might try over at USBMAN ... how about the Asian sites, since that's where
all this hardware comes from anyway ....

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
________

 

[MEB]

I thought I should clarify:

Personally I think Franc's difficulties using a USB hard drive in Win98 ARE
relevant to his discussion, however, as this is his discussion, I will bend
to his belief these matters [chips, drivers, etc.] are off-topic.

Hopefully he will continue to supply the final answers, when successful.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
________

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:13:37 -0400, "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com>
put finger to keyboard and composed:

> I thought I should clarify:
>
> Personally I think Franc's difficulties using a USB hard drive in Win98 ARE
>relevant to his discussion, however, as this is his discussion, I will bend
>to his belief these matters [chips, drivers, etc.] are off-topic.
>
> Hopefully he will continue to supply the final answers, when successful.

Here are the images of track 1 for my 13GB and 320GB drives. The 13GB
HD has never been near a Win NT or XP system.

http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/320GB_TRK1.bin
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/13GB_TRK1.bin

I have used Mbrtool and DOS's Debug to extract the above data.
However, to dump the last track I need a suitable freeware disk
editor. Any suggestions?

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

 

[MEB]

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:c9i2c3p1m6qhgpdqnslmp1qbu5souut8q7@4ax.com...
| On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:13:37 -0400, "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com>
| put finger to keyboard and composed:
|
| > I thought I should clarify:
| >
| > Personally I think Franc's difficulties using a USB hard drive in Win98
ARE
| >relevant to his discussion, however, as this is his discussion, I will
bend
| >to his belief these matters [chips, drivers, etc.] are off-topic.
| >
| > Hopefully he will continue to supply the final answers, when successful.
|
| Here are the images of track 1 for my 13GB and 320GB drives. The 13GB
| HD has never been near a Win NT or XP system.
|
| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/320GB_TRK1.bin
| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/13GB_TRK1.bin
|
| I have used Mbrtool and DOS's Debug to extract the above data.
| However, to dump the last track I need a suitable freeware disk
| editor. Any suggestions?
|
| - Franc Zabkar
| --
| Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Oh, sorry. Really, if you don't want to do this extra stuff, then I REALLY
understand.

I have never found a free DOS disk editor I was completely satisfied with,
so I'll have to rely on this:

http://www.geocities.com/thestarman3/tool/FreeTools.html
http://www.geocities.com/thestarman3/tool/de/PTS-DE.htm
http://www.geocities.com/thestarman3/tool/dl/PTSDE104.ZIP
http://www.phystechsoft.com/en/index.html - which apparently died in 2003

Or you can try over here for some tools:
ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/tools/pq/win95nt/ and
pickup NED2001, drop back to the /pq and look and pick up some other tools
in /utilities ...

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
________

 

[MEB]

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:fovvb39q09lu7nhl8kkt04fdnb0lg9galr@4ax.com...
| On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 23:23:11 -0400, "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com>
| put finger to keyboard and composed:
|
| >"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
| >news:fvfqb3ljddidpvlaah756828emvbc62k36@4ax.com...
|
| >| I say this because version 2.06 of the Panasonic USBASPI driver would
| >| produce this message:
|
| >| ERROR : EHCI memory mapped I/O can not be assigned.
|
| > Opps, that looks like something is already mapped.., like Video maybe
....
|
| I thought the same, until I looked into the ESCD.
|
| >no commandline options to assign elsewhere?
|
| No.
|
| >| My suspicions were compounded when I actually dumped the ESCD table ...
|
| > Okay, private comm or can you post it?
|
| I don't really want to dwell on this subject, but here are the data
| anyway:
| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/ESCD/
|
| Look at the L7S7A2 files. The M571 files are for my old socket 7
| board. You should see no conflicts in the memory address ranges.

-- Board/Function : 9/0 ---------
Function : 0, Length = 12 : 0C 00
Selections, Length = 1 : 01 00
Fn Info : : 86
Function marked as Disabled
Memory: Base = 0xCFFFD000 : 00 00 D0 FF CF 04 00
Length = 0x1000(4K)
not shared
System memory
write through cache
not cached
ROM
20 bit address
BYTE access size
IRQ: Number = 11 : 6B 00
sharable
level triggered
--------------------------------------- Board/Function : 9/1 ---------
Function : 1, Length = 12 : 0C 00
Selections, Length = 1 : 01 00
Fn Info : : 86
Function marked as Disabled
Memory: Base = 0xCFFFE000 : 00 00 E0 FF CF 04 00
Length = 0x1000(4K)
not shared
System memory
write through cache
not cached
ROM
20 bit address
BYTE access size
IRQ: Number = 5 : 65 00
sharable
level triggered
- - - -

Aren't these the address ranges for which you are having difficulties?
[Maybe I'm all messed up one this one.]

So are these free and usable address ranges shown in MSConfig or Aida32 [or
whatever you use]?

|
| >| Last night I wrote 300 1GB files to the drive from within a CMD window
| >| on an Intel/XP box. The write speed was about 21MB/s and there were no
| >| problems. A surface scan found no bad sectors.
| >
| > Did you expect any?
|
| Bad sectors can sometimes cause a system to stall for a long period.
| I've just been through this with two 20GB Fujitsu drives.

Yeeeaaaahh, but its a brand new drive [was] correct?

|
| >Its 98 that your interested in or supposedly testing,, so are you going
to
| >use the upgraded Maximus Decim drivers or what?
|
| First I need to obtain drivers for the USB 2.0 EHCI host controller
| and root hub. USB 1.1 is just too slow. I've looked at the various
| Win98SE drivers packaged with several PCI USB cards, but all appear to
| be licenced versions of the Orangeware driver.
|
| Currently I have version 3.1 of the MD mass storage drivers on both
| boxes.

So you already have the EHCI controller drivers:

_NUSB.INF
USB2.INF
USBEHCI.SYS

And in USB2.inf:
=================== GENERIC ===================================
[Generic]
%PCI\CC_0C0320.DeviceDesc%=EHCI,PCI\CC_0C0320
%USB\ROOT_HUB20.DeviceDesc%=ROOTHUB2,USB\ROOT_HUB20
2.0 HUBs
%USB\HubClass.DeviceDesc%=Usb2Hub.Dev,USB\HubClass
- - -
=================== SiS ===================================
[SIS]
%PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_7002.DeviceDesc%=EHCI,PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_7002
- - -
SIS
PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_7002.DeviceDesc="SiS 7002 USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller"
- - -

So are you indicating the generic support MD-3.1, does NOT work with your
device?

Or that you need a specific driver for the L7S7A2 to be recognized?

|
| <snip>
|
| >| See http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/
| >|
| >| 2GB flash drive boot sector (FAT16):
| >| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/2GB_F_BOO_FAT16.BIN
| >
| >So this was what, the original?
|
| Yes, except that I've added a volume name.

Thanks, so noted and will become a base for template creation/recovery.

|
| >| 2GB flash drive track 0 binary image (FAT32):
| >| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/2GB_F_TRK0.bin
| >
| >OB partition -
| >
| > Did you notice the hex 00 through hex 3E [64 PER except for the 3E],
track
| >2 must have continued ...
| >F8 FF FF FF B5 5C 04 00
|
| Track 2 is part of FAT#1.
|
| Track 1 starts with a FAT32 boot sector ...
|
| EB 5A 90 2C 6E 5A 58 54-49 48 43 00 02 08 20 00
|
| >| The above image contains the remnants of the original FAT16 FAT
| >| tables. I used "fdisk /actok" to turn off integrity checking,
| >| otherwise the sectors would normally be filled with zeroes (I think).
| >
| >Huh...
|
| Fdisk wrote to the MBR (absolute sector 0), but left all other sectors
| in track 0 untouched. Because the flash drive was originally formatted
| like a floppy, track 0 still contains the original FAT#1 info.

Was it formatted as a floppy, or more accurately as a flash drive [useable
anywhere that has USB memory stick port/need]?
And now its formatted more as [thinking for a Microsoft OS]...

|
| >| 320GB hard disc MBR and track 0:
| >| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/320GB_MBR.BIN
| >
| >Uhm, was this AFTER installing in XP or after formatting in XP?
|
| Fdisked and formatted in Win98SE, and then attached to XP system.
| Snapshots were taken after exposure to XP.
|
| > Shows an 0C partition type signature forward/reversed {6C364832 -
3248366C
| >= NT specific} sectors in partition - 625137282 and,
|
| OK, so Win XP wrote an "NT Drive Serial Number" at offsets 1B8h
| through 1BBh. FWIW Paragon Partition Manager appears to write similar
| info at 1B4h through 1B7h.
|
| >| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/320GB_MBR.txt
| >| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/320GB_TRK0.bin
| >
| > Same as above: signature, partition type, etc.
|
| > So nothing shows in track0... hmm, next track? End of disk?
|
| I'll follow up with a link to this info, but, with respect, I really
| have no desire to pursue XP related stuff in this group. As it is now,
| I think a lot of this thread is already way off topic.
|
| - Franc Zabkar
| --
| Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Thanks Franc, though this all may seem redundant to you, others may find
the routines, tools and other, helpful/useful information.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
________

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 05:40:09 -0400, "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com>
put finger to keyboard and composed:

>"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
>news:c9i2c3p1m6qhgpdqnslmp1qbu5souut8q7@4ax.com...

>| On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:13:37 -0400, "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com>
>| put finger to keyboard and composed:

>| Here are the images of track 1 for my 13GB and 320GB drives. The 13GB
>| HD has never been near a Win NT or XP system.
>|
>| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/320GB_TRK1.bin
>| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/13GB_TRK1.bin
>|
>| I have used Mbrtool and DOS's Debug to extract the above data.
>| However, to dump the last track I need a suitable freeware disk
>| editor. Any suggestions?
>|
>| - Franc Zabkar

> I have never found a free DOS disk editor I was completely satisfied with,
>so I'll have to rely on this:
>
>http://www.geocities.com/thestarman3/tool/FreeTools.html
>http://www.geocities.com/thestarman3/tool/de/PTS-DE.htm
>http://www.geocities.com/thestarman3/tool/dl/PTSDE104.ZIP
>http://www.phystechsoft.com/en/index.html - which apparently died in 2003
>
> Or you can try over here for some tools:
>ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/tools/pq/win95nt/ and
>pickup NED2001, drop back to the /pq and look and pick up some other tools
>in /utilities ...

I tried PTS-DE but it has a bug that prevents it from displaying the
higher numbered sectors in hex mode. Instead it displays all of them
as C/H/S 0/0/1. The same sectors can be viewed as partition tables,
with C/H/S correctly displayed, but of course that data is
meaningless.

As it turns out I aleady had the same version of Norton DiskEdit as
was linked to above. I just had the impression that it wasn't 48-bit
LBA capable. Anyway it worked. Here is the image of the last track of
the partitioned area, ie the last track of the last whole cylinder,
plus the remaining sectors in the final partial cylinder.

http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/DISC_END.zip (22KB)

I ran DiskEdit in real DOS mode using Panasonic's USBASPI.SYS and the
"Motto Hairu" DOS Driver, Di1000dd.SYS. I prefer not to use a disc
editor in a multitasking environment, even in read-only mode.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:00:49 -0400, "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com>
put finger to keyboard and composed:

>
>"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
>news:fovvb39q09lu7nhl8kkt04fdnb0lg9galr@4ax.com...
>| On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 23:23:11 -0400, "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com>
>| put finger to keyboard and composed:
>|
>| >"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
>| >news:fvfqb3ljddidpvlaah756828emvbc62k36@4ax.com...
>|
>| >| I say this because version 2.06 of the Panasonic USBASPI driver would
>| >| produce this message:
>|
>| >| ERROR : EHCI memory mapped I/O can not be assigned.
>|
>| > Opps, that looks like something is already mapped.., like Video maybe
>...
>|
>| I thought the same, until I looked into the ESCD.
>|
>| >no commandline options to assign elsewhere?
>|
>| No.
>|
>| >| My suspicions were compounded when I actually dumped the ESCD table ...
>|
>| > Okay, private comm or can you post it?
>|
>| I don't really want to dwell on this subject, but here are the data
>| anyway:
>| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/ESCD/
>|
>| Look at the L7S7A2 files. The M571 files are for my old socket 7
>| board. You should see no conflicts in the memory address ranges.
>
>-- Board/Function : 9/0 ---------

>Memory: Base = 0xCFFFD000 : 00 00 D0 FF CF 04 00
> Length = 0x1000(4K)

>Memory: Base = 0xCFFFE000 : 00 00 E0 FF CF 04 00
> Length = 0x1000(4K)

> Aren't these the address ranges for which you are having difficulties?
>[Maybe I'm all messed up one this one.]

Sorry if my post wasn't clear, but I had already solved my problem. It
turned out to be a driver issue.

Version 2.15 of the USBASPI.SYS driver correctly detects and
initialises the EHCI controller as follows:

Controller : 00-03-2 VID=1039h PID=7002h (1019h-1808h) EHCI
: MEM=CFFFF000h-CFFFFFFFh(4KBytes)

Both the BIOS ESCD table and Device Manager show the same resource
allocations (although the ESCD contains three instances of the 7002
device but no SiS 7001).

IMHO, USBASPI.SYS is an invaluable troubleshooting tool. In fact
usbview.exe, which is part of Microsoft's resource kit, does not
detect the SiS 7002 USB 2.0 controller as installed by Maximus Decim
(see later), but it does find the USB 2.0 controller installed by
Orangeware. OTOH, UVCView (Microsoft's Diagnostic Tool for USB Video
Class Hardware) *does* find the SiS 7002 device. Perhaps I need a
later version of Usbview ???

> So are these free and usable address ranges shown in MSConfig or Aida32 [or
>whatever you use]?

See above.

>| >Its 98 that your interested in or supposedly testing,, so are you going
>to
>| >use the upgraded Maximus Decim drivers or what?
>|
>| First I need to obtain drivers for the USB 2.0 EHCI host controller
>| and root hub. USB 1.1 is just too slow. I've looked at the various
>| Win98SE drivers packaged with several PCI USB cards, but all appear to
>| be licenced versions of the Orangeware driver.
>|
>| Currently I have version 3.1 of the MD mass storage drivers on both
>| boxes.
>
>So you already have the EHCI controller drivers:
>
>_NUSB.INF
>USB2.INF
>USBEHCI.SYS
>
>And in USB2.inf:
> =================== GENERIC ===================================
>[Generic]
>%PCI\CC_0C0320.DeviceDesc%=EHCI,PCI\CC_0C0320
>%USB\ROOT_HUB20.DeviceDesc%=ROOTHUB2,USB\ROOT_HUB20
> 2.0 HUBs
>%USB\HubClass.DeviceDesc%=Usb2Hub.Dev,USB\HubClass
>- - -
> =================== SiS ===================================
>[SIS]
>%PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_7002.DeviceDesc%=EHCI,PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_7002
>- - -
>SIS
>PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_7002.DeviceDesc="SiS 7002 USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller"
>- - -
>
> So are you indicating the generic support MD-3.1, does NOT work with your
>device?
>
> Or that you need a specific driver for the L7S7A2 to be recognized?

Doh! All this time I thought that the MD drivers were only for USB
mass storage devices, not for controllers. After removing the crippled
Orangeware driver and pointing DM to USB2.INF, I was able to install
the Maximus Decim 3.1 EHCI driver and I now have an SiS 7002 USB 2.0
EHCI controller in DM. Thanks very much!

I'm now left to ponder why the MD driver did not detect my SiS 7002
hardware before I tried Orangeware. I can only guess that it must be
because the "driver" which is installed by SiS turned off the SiS 7002
controller by adding a nousb.exe executable to my autoexec.bat.

Having said the above, I am now able to read at USB 2.0 speeds, but
writing to the 320GB USB drive still results in the same hanging
issue. :-(

For anyone who is interested, I measured the read speed of my 2GB
flash drive and 320GB USB hard drive in Explorer. One set of results
is for each device connected on its own, and the other is when both
are connected.

device separate combined
------------------------------------
2GB flash 8.8 MB/s 7.6 MB/s
320 GB HD 10.2 MB/s 7.9 MB/s

It appears that a connected device impacts on the performance of
others, even when it is idle. I notice also that the read speed of the
320GB HD in DOS (20 MB/s) is nearly double its speed in Windows.

>| >| 2GB flash drive boot sector (FAT16):
>| >| http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/USB_HD/2GB_F_BOO_FAT16.BIN

> Was it formatted as a floppy, or more accurately as a flash drive [useable
>anywhere that has USB memory stick port/need]?
> And now its formatted more as [thinking for a Microsoft OS]...

IIRC, the flash drive came preformatted as a FAT16 volume. When I say
it looks like a floppy, I mean that it is laid out like a FAT16 hard
disc with track 0 missing. This means that the first sector is a boot
sector (as is the case with a floppy), not an MBR/partition table (as
would be expected for a HD). So the BIOS (and DOS) detects it as drive
B:, but other software which expects to see a partition table will
complain. For example, the Motto Hairu driver alluded to above
complains that there are no valid partitions.

FWIW, the flash drive is labelled "Quality Computer Peripherals" and
"No Worries!". Usbview identifies the device as follows:

idVendor: 0x090C (Feiya Technology Corporation)
idProduct: 0x1000
bcdDevice: 0x1100
iManufacturer: 0x01
0x0409: "SMI Corporation"
iProduct: 0x02
0x0409: "USB DISK"

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.