Starting your PC without the front panel power button

[Gary S. Terhune]

Nobody has given you one vague answer (though some have been off-topic,
going into far more detail than you want or need.) You just lacked the basic
knowledge to understand them. After your claiming you had lots and lots of
experience, why should we go into kindergarten mode to answer you?

Anyway, I've given you the definitive answer already a few times. DON'T use
a screwdriver to short anything, use a continuity tester to test the power
button assembly. Sticking a screwdriver into a live box is STUPID (I'll make
exceptions for people like Philo who work on these things hour after hour,
but not a stupid instructor who's just showing off. Such a person classifies
as an Class "A" A**hole in my book.)

For testing the power button, I already gave you the gory details. Not going
to do it again. If you can't figure it out, give up. Completely. Forever.
Find a different hobby.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"attilathehun1" <attilathehun1@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:88AF15C3-2B6E-404F-8FB0-73745B80A2BE@microsoft.com...
> Ok, now I figured it out. Take off the connector where the power up button
> assembly goes into the motherboard and take a small screwdriver and touch
> the
> prongs on the mobo where the connector goes in. I just tried that on my
> Compaq and it started without the power button assembly plugged in. I hope
> now if I turn it off that I didn't ruin my PC. Ok it turned off and I
> tried
> it again and nope it didn't start by touching the prongs together at that
> point, or I was touching them wrong. Ok, I'll wait for a definite answer
> to
> the question.
> How do I have to, oh forget it. I'm fed up with these vague answers.
> Anyone out there with a definite answer, you will be remembered as someone
> with a brain if you give an answer that is straight to the point.
> Thanks, attilathehun1
> --
> attilathehun1
>
>
> "w_tom" wrote:
>
>> On May 9, 10:37 pm, attilathehun1
>> <attilatheh...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>> > I'm not going to bring the PC to someone who is going to do the same
>> > thing
>> > as I'm going to do. Why should I pay someone who will just change the
>> > power
>> > supply or front panel start up button assembly.
>>
>> If computer literate, then you also knew about the power supply
>> controller and what is 'integral' per Don Phillipson.
>>
>> What will that 'someone' else do? Probably read voltages on green
>> and purple wire (only 15 seconds), then charge you thirty some dollars
>> labor to pinch a loose wire with needle nose pliers. You would fear
>> to even do those 15 seconds of labor?
>>
>> Why did you start another discussion? Useful replies from that
>> previous discussion don't change only because you did not like
>> answers. Any useful answer requires you to do things you never did
>> before.
>>
>> I concur with Gary. You are bound and determined to keep asking the
>> same question until someone posts what you want to hear. Spend the
>> money. Take that computer to someone who also knows about the power
>> supply controller - who does not fear to learn using numbers. Then
>> thinking through the problem is made redundant.
>>
>> "." in that previous thread even provided citations that most any
>> computer literate person knows or learns from. Any child can assemble
>> a computer. It is why most computer techs do not even know how
>> electricity works. One need not know much about computers to assemble
>> one. Even the plugs are shaped different so that a child will not
>> connect wrong wires together. Anyone can assemble a PC.
>>
>> Knowing why a computer works is best accomplished by following the
>> evidence - tracing a failure to its defect. With information from
>> ".", one learns how that switch is integral to a power supply system.
>> Learned why shorting a green wire would not answer your question.
>> Learned why reposting the same question will only get the same
>> answers.
>>

 

[attilathehun1]

Ok, finally I got a response in detail that I can use. I didn't read both of
your last messages, Gary and Meb, but I can see that it's something I'm going
to print out.
Ok, one more thing, I finally figured out somewhat what to do with the
small screwdriver. I put it between the prongs where the power button
assmebly joins the mobo. I took out the power connector and inserted the
screw driver onto the prongs and nothing happened. I then noticed the power
cord wasn't plugged in. When I plugged in the power cord the PC started up
automatically. Is that because I jumped it before the power cord was in? I'd
think if the power cord wasn't in and you tried to jump a PC nothing would
happen. Sometimes my one PC starts as soon as you plug in the power cord.
And as far as the multi-meter readings, I will take your guys advice and
take a reading.
Alright, I'm going to give this a shot. I tried to start up the PC with and
without the power button assembly and had no luck. I just went and bought a
power button assembly, no, I had my power button assembly fixed for no
charge. The PC tech at PC Liquidators bent it up a bit, which is kinda
impossible since it's plastic, but yes it's bent. he inserted a new clicker.
The old clicker that clicks when you push the power button on the front panel
wasn't working, so he took the old one out and puttied in a new clicker.
I felt obligated to buy something from the store, since he didn't charge me
for the fix on the power assembly, and I bought a DVI to VGA or VGA to DVI
connector for 10 bucks. Made for Windows not Macs.
Alrighty, thanks for the detail infomation. It is greatly appreciated.
Thanks, attilathehun1
--
attilathehun1


"MEB" wrote:

> Straight up answer, read it twice if necessary.
>
> The CASE has/should have a power supply button which has *two leads/wires*
> running to the ATX style motherboard [AT style testing is slightly
> different, these power buttons are NOT momentary but provide constant
> connection].
>
> IF ATX SYLE:
> These two leads connect to two pins on the motherboard. WHERE these two
> pins connect IS the testing position where you EITHER use the paper clip
> WITHOUT uninstalling the connector, push the paperclip into the two holes IN
> the connector next two each of the two wires MOMENTARILY, OR where you place
> the multi-meter leads to test for voltage BEFORE OR AFTER removing the
> connector. IF the computer boots you MAY have a bad switch OR a bad
> connection.
> ALSO using the multi-meter and AFTER removing the two wire connector, place
> the leads from the multi-meter into the connector from the power switch and
> test for connection using the *continuity* testing aspect of the meter OR
> using one of the *KOHM* settings AND *while pressing the button and
> releasing*. IF you get a reading OTHER THAN 0 [zero] or the default
> unconnected display, the button is good OR if the continuity test
> BEEPS/alarms or flashes a light [depends on the meter] you have a good
> button {usually}.
>
> IF the button tests okay, and the temporary connection [paper clip or
> {shudder} screwdriver} DID NOT turn on the computer you either have a bad
> motherboard [or one of its components] OR a bad power supply.
>
> FOR THE SCREWDRIVER APPROACH: momentarily touch the two exposed pins on the
> motherboard from where you disconnected the power switch leads. BE CAREFULL,
> this is not a recommended procedure as a slip MIGHT contact other parts of
> the board electronics causing a DIRECT SHORT or other damage.
>
> IF AT STYLE:
> IF it is an AT style board, the preferred method is to create a
> shunt/jumper, a plain wire WITHOUT exposed wires, which you push onto the
> pins for completed constant connection. This is placed WITH THE POWER
> COMPLETELY DISCONNECTED. IF this works, then replace the shunt/jumper with a
> new switch.
>
> You stated, I think, that you replaced the board, did you replace the
> GROUNDING screw in the right hole and connection on the case and
> motherboard?
>
> --
> MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
> --
> _________
>
> "attilathehun1" <attilathehun1@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:AB38BEB6-9100-4E3E-BC5A-96FF622FF63B@microsoft.com...
> | Look, all I wanted to do was get a simple answer to where I touch the
> screw
> | driver. I know my motherboard. There is no way I can use a screw driver
> from
> | the answers you have given. You haven't given me a right on answer,
> straight,
> | for example, touch the screw driver from the battery to the point where
> the
> | start up button assembly plugs into the motherboard. Or take a paper clip
> and
> | stick it into the connector where the P1 power supply connector goes in.
> | Nothing like that has been told to me. All these answers are vague.
> Someone
> | give a staight up answer.
> | And yes I did go out and buy a power supply for 10 bucks, a used one that
> | works on a Gateway. Also, I do have a multi-meter that I use to test
> | batteries. No one has told me to take the multi-meter and touch it to a
> | certain spot on the power supply and take a reading. Or no one has said to
> me
> | to take the multi-meter and take a reading from the connector on the
> | motherboard while the P1 is plugged in or whatever. All these answers are
> in
> | the grey area.
> | Anyone would get upset with these answers after someone saying you don't
> | know your elbow from you know what and then saying to take your PC to a PC
> | tech.
> | I just want some definite answers. Just the way I would answer someone
> who
> | asked a question if I knew the answer.
> | Thanks,
> attilathehun1
> | --
> | attilathehun1
> |
> |
> | "Gary S. Terhune" wrote:
> |
> | > Boo-hoo-hoo. Here's a Kleenex. Now, blow. Good boy!
> | >
> | > Have you figured out if the power button works or not? Or are you too
> cheap
> | > to buy a multi-tester?
> | >
> | > --
> | > Gary S. Terhune
> | > MS-MVP Shell/User
> | > www.grystmill.com
> | >
> | > "attilathehun1" <attilathehun1@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> message
> | > news:E2FA0310-D0A4-48ED-960C-6500BB8C4021@microsoft.com...
> | > > Ok, I did and I know from trial and error. That's exactly how the last
> PC
> | > > tech did it when I brought it into him. In fact, he lied. I brought
> the PC
> | > > into him and told him I didn't want to pay the 25 dollars and just to
> buy
> | > > a
> | > > power supply that fits the machine or something to that nature. He
> told me
> | > > don't worry, I'll do it just so we get it right and there will be no
> | > > problems.
> | > > Well I said ok, no probs go ahead then. When I saw the bill and said
> wtf
> | > > is
> | > > this 25 bucks for? OH, that for me working on it. I said wtf I
> thought
> | > > you
> | > > said you'd do it and just so it would be done right. The mother...
> ripped
> | > > me
> | > > off. So, wtf am I to say in that situation. I paid him and told him
> this
> | > > would be the last time I brought my PC into this PC store.
> | > > Getting back to the problem, which had been made into a mountain from
> a
> | > > molehill, I did test it and yes the motherboard probably got damaged
> or
> | > > shorted out or ESD might have ruined it . I stuck the paperclip into
> the
> | > > two
> | > > pin holes and nothing happened. So, I assume that's the problem.
> | > > See I've never had to do this before and I figured a little advice,
> plain
> | > > and simple, would be enough information. I guess not. Anotherwords,
> you
> | > > (pl)
> | > > don't no how to do it. You don't no wtf you are talking about. See
> I've
> | > > encountered your kind. Read upwards.
> | > > Ok, thanks for nothing.
> | > > attilathehun1
> | > >
> | > > See there are problems out there and lies from PC techs. I mean is it
> that
> | > > bad? I just wanted a confirmation, and if it's going to be that bad,
> then
> | > > forget it.
> | > >
> | > > --
> | > > attilathehun1
> | > >
> | > >
> | > > "attilathehun1" wrote:
> | > >
> | > >> I'd like to know how to start up my PC without the front panel power
> | > >> button
> | > >> assembly because my PC won't start or fire up. Nothing happens when I
> hit
> | > >> the
> | > >> power button. The power supply works, so I figure it might be the
> power
> | > >> button assembly that's the problem. I'm using a process of
> elimination to
> | > >> do
> | > >> this and the power button assembly is next on the process of
> elimination.
> | > >> Thanks, attilathehun1
> | > >> --
> | > >> attilathehun1
> | >
> | >
>
>
>

 

[attilathehun1]

Ok, I just read all of both your message Gary and Meb's message. I thank you
for the first part, which was great in detail, but your last part sucks, and
I don't even use the word sucks. That's one of the forbidden words I don't
want used around me. So it must really suck.
Ok, and I thank again Meb. He's a professional and deserves credit.
Thanks, attilathehun1
-- PS If that's your idea of friendliness, you better think of better ways
to make friends. You might be a stuffed shirt, so I should take this back.
But no, I want you to read this and maybe you'll get an idea of backing off
and not sticking in hostile thoughts. You were doing so good. But I guess
it's not in your nature to humble yourself and just help someone out for the
sake of good karma.
Ok, see what you've got out of me. I try and distance myself from hostile
feelings.
Thanks, attilathehun1
attilathehun1


"MEB" wrote:

> Straight up answer, read it twice if necessary.
>
> The CASE has/should have a power supply button which has *two leads/wires*
> running to the ATX style motherboard [AT style testing is slightly
> different, these power buttons are NOT momentary but provide constant
> connection].
>
> IF ATX SYLE:
> These two leads connect to two pins on the motherboard. WHERE these two
> pins connect IS the testing position where you EITHER use the paper clip
> WITHOUT uninstalling the connector, push the paperclip into the two holes IN
> the connector next two each of the two wires MOMENTARILY, OR where you place
> the multi-meter leads to test for voltage BEFORE OR AFTER removing the
> connector. IF the computer boots you MAY have a bad switch OR a bad
> connection.
> ALSO using the multi-meter and AFTER removing the two wire connector, place
> the leads from the multi-meter into the connector from the power switch and
> test for connection using the *continuity* testing aspect of the meter OR
> using one of the *KOHM* settings AND *while pressing the button and
> releasing*. IF you get a reading OTHER THAN 0 [zero] or the default
> unconnected display, the button is good OR if the continuity test
> BEEPS/alarms or flashes a light [depends on the meter] you have a good
> button {usually}.
>
> IF the button tests okay, and the temporary connection [paper clip or
> {shudder} screwdriver} DID NOT turn on the computer you either have a bad
> motherboard [or one of its components] OR a bad power supply.
>
> FOR THE SCREWDRIVER APPROACH: momentarily touch the two exposed pins on the
> motherboard from where you disconnected the power switch leads. BE CAREFULL,
> this is not a recommended procedure as a slip MIGHT contact other parts of
> the board electronics causing a DIRECT SHORT or other damage.
>
> IF AT STYLE:
> IF it is an AT style board, the preferred method is to create a
> shunt/jumper, a plain wire WITHOUT exposed wires, which you push onto the
> pins for completed constant connection. This is placed WITH THE POWER
> COMPLETELY DISCONNECTED. IF this works, then replace the shunt/jumper with a
> new switch.
>
> You stated, I think, that you replaced the board, did you replace the
> GROUNDING screw in the right hole and connection on the case and
> motherboard?
>
> --
> MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
> --
> _________
>
> "attilathehun1" <attilathehun1@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:AB38BEB6-9100-4E3E-BC5A-96FF622FF63B@microsoft.com...
> | Look, all I wanted to do was get a simple answer to where I touch the
> screw
> | driver. I know my motherboard. There is no way I can use a screw driver
> from
> | the answers you have given. You haven't given me a right on answer,
> straight,
> | for example, touch the screw driver from the battery to the point where
> the
> | start up button assembly plugs into the motherboard. Or take a paper clip
> and
> | stick it into the connector where the P1 power supply connector goes in.
> | Nothing like that has been told to me. All these answers are vague.
> Someone
> | give a staight up answer.
> | And yes I did go out and buy a power supply for 10 bucks, a used one that
> | works on a Gateway. Also, I do have a multi-meter that I use to test
> | batteries. No one has told me to take the multi-meter and touch it to a
> | certain spot on the power supply and take a reading. Or no one has said to
> me
> | to take the multi-meter and take a reading from the connector on the
> | motherboard while the P1 is plugged in or whatever. All these answers are
> in
> | the grey area.
> | Anyone would get upset with these answers after someone saying you don't
> | know your elbow from you know what and then saying to take your PC to a PC
> | tech.
> | I just want some definite answers. Just the way I would answer someone
> who
> | asked a question if I knew the answer.
> | Thanks,
> attilathehun1
> | --
> | attilathehun1
> |
> |
> | "Gary S. Terhune" wrote:
> |
> | > Boo-hoo-hoo. Here's a Kleenex. Now, blow. Good boy!
> | >
> | > Have you figured out if the power button works or not? Or are you too
> cheap
> | > to buy a multi-tester?
> | >
> | > --
> | > Gary S. Terhune
> | > MS-MVP Shell/User
> | > www.grystmill.com
> | >
> | > "attilathehun1" <attilathehun1@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> message
> | > news:E2FA0310-D0A4-48ED-960C-6500BB8C4021@microsoft.com...
> | > > Ok, I did and I know from trial and error. That's exactly how the last
> PC
> | > > tech did it when I brought it into him. In fact, he lied. I brought
> the PC
> | > > into him and told him I didn't want to pay the 25 dollars and just to
> buy
> | > > a
> | > > power supply that fits the machine or something to that nature. He
> told me
> | > > don't worry, I'll do it just so we get it right and there will be no
> | > > problems.
> | > > Well I said ok, no probs go ahead then. When I saw the bill and said
> wtf
> | > > is
> | > > this 25 bucks for? OH, that for me working on it. I said wtf I
> thought
> | > > you
> | > > said you'd do it and just so it would be done right. The mother...
> ripped
> | > > me
> | > > off. So, wtf am I to say in that situation. I paid him and told him
> this
> | > > would be the last time I brought my PC into this PC store.
> | > > Getting back to the problem, which had been made into a mountain from
> a
> | > > molehill, I did test it and yes the motherboard probably got damaged
> or
> | > > shorted out or ESD might have ruined it . I stuck the paperclip into
> the
> | > > two
> | > > pin holes and nothing happened. So, I assume that's the problem.
> | > > See I've never had to do this before and I figured a little advice,
> plain
> | > > and simple, would be enough information. I guess not. Anotherwords,
> you
> | > > (pl)
> | > > don't no how to do it. You don't no wtf you are talking about. See
> I've
> | > > encountered your kind. Read upwards.
> | > > Ok, thanks for nothing.
> | > > attilathehun1
> | > >
> | > > See there are problems out there and lies from PC techs. I mean is it
> that
> | > > bad? I just wanted a confirmation, and if it's going to be that bad,
> then
> | > > forget it.
> | > >
> | > > --
> | > > attilathehun1
> | > >
> | > >
> | > > "attilathehun1" wrote:
> | > >
> | > >> I'd like to know how to start up my PC without the front panel power
> | > >> button
> | > >> assembly because my PC won't start or fire up. Nothing happens when I
> hit
> | > >> the
> | > >> power button. The power supply works, so I figure it might be the
> power
> | > >> button assembly that's the problem. I'm using a process of
> elimination to
> | > >> do
> | > >> this and the power button assembly is next on the process of
> elimination.
> | > >> Thanks, attilathehun1
> | > >> --
> | > >> attilathehun1
> | >
> | >
>
>
>

 

[Gary S. Terhune]

Good luck. Stay safe.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"attilathehun1" <attilathehun1@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:3B8D41A8-0295-4E93-B746-9F2A12AB2485@microsoft.com...
> Ok, I just read all of both your message Gary and Meb's message. I thank
> you
> for the first part, which was great in detail, but your last part sucks,
> and
> I don't even use the word sucks. That's one of the forbidden words I don't
> want used around me. So it must really suck.
> Ok, and I thank again Meb. He's a professional and deserves credit.
> Thanks, attilathehun1
> -- PS If that's your idea of friendliness, you better think of better ways
> to make friends. You might be a stuffed shirt, so I should take this back.
> But no, I want you to read this and maybe you'll get an idea of backing
> off
> and not sticking in hostile thoughts. You were doing so good. But I guess
> it's not in your nature to humble yourself and just help someone out for
> the
> sake of good karma.
> Ok, see what you've got out of me. I try and distance myself from hostile
> feelings.
> Thanks,
> attilathehun1
> attilathehun1
>
>
> "MEB" wrote:
>
>> Straight up answer, read it twice if necessary.
>>
>> The CASE has/should have a power supply button which has *two
>> leads/wires*
>> running to the ATX style motherboard [AT style testing is slightly
>> different, these power buttons are NOT momentary but provide constant
>> connection].
>>
>> IF ATX SYLE:
>> These two leads connect to two pins on the motherboard. WHERE these two
>> pins connect IS the testing position where you EITHER use the paper clip
>> WITHOUT uninstalling the connector, push the paperclip into the two holes
>> IN
>> the connector next two each of the two wires MOMENTARILY, OR where you
>> place
>> the multi-meter leads to test for voltage BEFORE OR AFTER removing the
>> connector. IF the computer boots you MAY have a bad switch OR a bad
>> connection.
>> ALSO using the multi-meter and AFTER removing the two wire connector,
>> place
>> the leads from the multi-meter into the connector from the power switch
>> and
>> test for connection using the *continuity* testing aspect of the meter OR
>> using one of the *KOHM* settings AND *while pressing the button and
>> releasing*. IF you get a reading OTHER THAN 0 [zero] or the default
>> unconnected display, the button is good OR if the continuity test
>> BEEPS/alarms or flashes a light [depends on the meter] you have a good
>> button {usually}.
>>
>> IF the button tests okay, and the temporary connection [paper clip or
>> {shudder} screwdriver} DID NOT turn on the computer you either have a bad
>> motherboard [or one of its components] OR a bad power supply.
>>
>> FOR THE SCREWDRIVER APPROACH: momentarily touch the two exposed pins on
>> the
>> motherboard from where you disconnected the power switch leads. BE
>> CAREFULL,
>> this is not a recommended procedure as a slip MIGHT contact other parts
>> of
>> the board electronics causing a DIRECT SHORT or other damage.
>>
>> IF AT STYLE:
>> IF it is an AT style board, the preferred method is to create a
>> shunt/jumper, a plain wire WITHOUT exposed wires, which you push onto the
>> pins for completed constant connection. This is placed WITH THE POWER
>> COMPLETELY DISCONNECTED. IF this works, then replace the shunt/jumper
>> with a
>> new switch.
>>
>> You stated, I think, that you replaced the board, did you replace the
>> GROUNDING screw in the right hole and connection on the case and
>> motherboard?
>>
>> --
>> MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
>> --
>> _________
>>
>> "attilathehun1" <attilathehun1@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
>> message
>> news:AB38BEB6-9100-4E3E-BC5A-96FF622FF63B@microsoft.com...
>> | Look, all I wanted to do was get a simple answer to where I touch the
>> screw
>> | driver. I know my motherboard. There is no way I can use a screw driver
>> from
>> | the answers you have given. You haven't given me a right on answer,
>> straight,
>> | for example, touch the screw driver from the battery to the point where
>> the
>> | start up button assembly plugs into the motherboard. Or take a paper
>> clip
>> and
>> | stick it into the connector where the P1 power supply connector goes
>> in.
>> | Nothing like that has been told to me. All these answers are vague.
>> Someone
>> | give a staight up answer.
>> | And yes I did go out and buy a power supply for 10 bucks, a used one
>> that
>> | works on a Gateway. Also, I do have a multi-meter that I use to test
>> | batteries. No one has told me to take the multi-meter and touch it to a
>> | certain spot on the power supply and take a reading. Or no one has said
>> to
>> me
>> | to take the multi-meter and take a reading from the connector on the
>> | motherboard while the P1 is plugged in or whatever. All these answers
>> are
>> in
>> | the grey area.
>> | Anyone would get upset with these answers after someone saying you
>> don't
>> | know your elbow from you know what and then saying to take your PC to a
>> PC
>> | tech.
>> | I just want some definite answers. Just the way I would answer someone
>> who
>> | asked a question if I knew the answer.
>> | Thanks,
>> attilathehun1
>> | --
>> | attilathehun1
>> |
>> |
>> | "Gary S. Terhune" wrote:
>> |
>> | > Boo-hoo-hoo. Here's a Kleenex. Now, blow. Good boy!
>> | >
>> | > Have you figured out if the power button works or not? Or are you too
>> cheap
>> | > to buy a multi-tester?
>> | >
>> | > --
>> | > Gary S. Terhune
>> | > MS-MVP Shell/User
>> | > www.grystmill.com
>> | >
>> | > "attilathehun1" <attilathehun1@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
>> message
>> | > news:E2FA0310-D0A4-48ED-960C-6500BB8C4021@microsoft.com...
>> | > > Ok, I did and I know from trial and error. That's exactly how the
>> last
>> PC
>> | > > tech did it when I brought it into him. In fact, he lied. I brought
>> the PC
>> | > > into him and told him I didn't want to pay the 25 dollars and just
>> to
>> buy
>> | > > a
>> | > > power supply that fits the machine or something to that nature. He
>> told me
>> | > > don't worry, I'll do it just so we get it right and there will be
>> no
>> | > > problems.
>> | > > Well I said ok, no probs go ahead then. When I saw the bill and
>> said
>> wtf
>> | > > is
>> | > > this 25 bucks for? OH, that for me working on it. I said wtf I
>> thought
>> | > > you
>> | > > said you'd do it and just so it would be done right. The mother...
>> ripped
>> | > > me
>> | > > off. So, wtf am I to say in that situation. I paid him and told him
>> this
>> | > > would be the last time I brought my PC into this PC store.
>> | > > Getting back to the problem, which had been made into a mountain
>> from
>> a
>> | > > molehill, I did test it and yes the motherboard probably got
>> damaged
>> or
>> | > > shorted out or ESD might have ruined it . I stuck the paperclip
>> into
>> the
>> | > > two
>> | > > pin holes and nothing happened. So, I assume that's the problem.
>> | > > See I've never had to do this before and I figured a little advice,
>> plain
>> | > > and simple, would be enough information. I guess not. Anotherwords,
>> you
>> | > > (pl)
>> | > > don't no how to do it. You don't no wtf you are talking about. See
>> I've
>> | > > encountered your kind. Read upwards.
>> | > > Ok, thanks for nothing.
>> | > > attilathehun1
>> | > >
>> | > > See there are problems out there and lies from PC techs. I mean is
>> it
>> that
>> | > > bad? I just wanted a confirmation, and if it's going to be that
>> bad,
>> then
>> | > > forget it.
>> | > >
>> | > > --
>> | > > attilathehun1
>> | > >
>> | > >
>> | > > "attilathehun1" wrote:
>> | > >
>> | > >> I'd like to know how to start up my PC without the front panel
>> power
>> | > >> button
>> | > >> assembly because my PC won't start or fire up. Nothing happens
>> when I
>> hit
>> | > >> the
>> | > >> power button. The power supply works, so I figure it might be the
>> power
>> | > >> button assembly that's the problem. I'm using a process of
>> elimination to
>> | > >> do
>> | > >> this and the power button assembly is next on the process of
>> elimination.
>> | > >> Thanks,
>> attilathehun1
>> | > >> --
>> | > >> attilathehun1
>> | >
>> | >
>>
>>
>>

 

[w_tom]

On May 10, 1:31 pm, attilathehun1
<attilatheh...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> And yes I did go out and buy a power supply for 10 bucks, a used one that
> works on a Gateway. Also, I do have a multi-meter that I use to test
> batteries. No one has told me to take the multi-meter and touch it to a
> certain spot on the power supply and take a reading.

Touch meter probes to purple and black wires to read that VDC
number. Repeat same to green and black wires to read that voltage.
Do same to both wires also when power switch is pressed. Then post
those four numbers here to learn other facts about your power button
and so many other components..

If green wire voltage does not drop below 0.8 V (when power switch
is pressed), then repeat that same procedure to both power button
wires (best measured where those wires connect to motherboard). What
makes this procedure so effective is that you disconnect and change
nothing inside the computer. Significant are voltages both when power
button is pressed and when it is not pressed. Not just 'good or
bad'. Those actual numbers also report other significant information
- especially about but not limited to the power button.

Gary Terhune discusses a continuity tester. That is also a
multimeter function. However we try to avoid measuring continuity
until later since disconnecting something may change the defect.
First see the defect before disconnecting anything to measure
continuity. From those voltage numbers are where best to measure
continuity.

Again, some of the best replies here are those that don't appear to
be useful. What characterizes THE best solutions? Best solutions
result in numbers. Answer that only result in 'yes or no' or 'Go/
Nogo' typically do not provide definitive solutions. For example, is
the switch conductive when pressed? How conductive? Again, what is
the number? Switch may be conductive when pressed and still be
defective - not conductive enough.

MEB, Gary Terhune, and others have also posted variations of this
same procedure. Procedure was also posted in that other thread where
the same question was asked - and resulted in same answers. Best were
answers you did not understand and that also resulted in information
(numbers) so that others could provide further solutions.

Power supply for $10 is definitely missing essential functions -
just asking for more trouble and failure. Just another reason why
responsible computer assemblers obtain basic electrical knowledge.
With electrical knowledge, the power supply will still boot and run a
computer - however create other unacceptable failures. A mimimally
acceptable power supply costs about $60 full retail. To sell for $10,
well, they are dumping inferior products to computer assemblers
without basic electrical knowledge.

 

[w_tom]

On May 10, 1:18 am, "Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote:
> Sure, anyone can assemble a PC, yet not everyone can assemble one to the specs
> that it will operate properly. How electricity works has nothing to do with how
> one builds a PC.

Which is why the OP is discussing a power supply for $25 or, even
worse, $10. He is not alone. Many computers assemblers - including A
+ Certified Techs - need not learn how electricity works. Anybody can
assemble a computer that will boot - and is still defective. Without
electrical knowledge, they buy a power supply only on dollars and
watts.

Gary Terhune has asked the OP to perform some simplest and most
information tests. The OP instead does only what he understands. OP
repeatedly ignores the posts that would created definitive answers.
Why? He somehow knows which posts provide a useful answer but does
not even have basic electrical knowledge. IOW the best (most useful)
posts get ignored by the OP due to insufficient electrical knowledge.

What provides the most useful results? Tests that result in
numbers.

What provides that continuity tester, reports in seconds where the
problem is, and provides numbers so that others can post help? A 3.5
digit multimeter. Why would it answer all the OP's questions? That
answer is only obvious with basic electrical knowledge.

Any child can build a computer that boots. Even computers with
defective power supplies will still boot. Analysis of failure and
solving problems before that happens both require basic electrical
knowledge - ie the numbers.

 

[attilathehun1]

Ok, there is a reason I started a new thread. There are so many replys that I
am getting a bit overwhelmed. That's one of the reasons. I should say, that I
started a new thread. I'm sure you might be able to guess the rest.
I'm trying to print out by using selection and it's not giving me the
complete selection. That's very aggravating. This PC is a HP pavilion 503n
using a HP Deskjet 932C printer. Both HP devices and I'm not happy with both.
Anyways, getting back to the problem with the Gateway with the Pentium III.
The PC won't even fire up now. I'm fed up. This isn't even the PC that is
supposed to be in the living room. The PC in the living room went on the
blink, a DIY I built 3 years ago, and I bought a mobo/CPU combo with 500mb of
RAM, included free, from newegg.com. I'm not going to spend anymore time on
this Gateway PC. Ok, I'll spend 1 more day or give it 1 more shot. After that
if it doesn't fire up, I'm through with it.
I want to print out all the information that I've been receiving from all,
but like I said I'm overwelmed now with all these replys, and now my printer
isn't selecting what I select. My Dell 8300 with a Brother HL-1440 printer is
printing the selection fine except the size of the print is so small you
might have to use glasses to read it. I can read it, but anyone else might
have a problem reading it.
Ok, I want to take back what I said to Gary and not be hostile. I'm not an
SOB. I try and get along with everyone.
Alrighty, thanks for all the information.
attilathehun1
--
attilathehun1


"dadiOH" wrote:

> attilathehun1 wrote:
> > Ok, I did and I know from trial and error. That's exactly how the
> > last PC tech did it when I brought it into him. In fact, he lied. I
> > brought the PC into him and told him I didn't want to pay the 25
> > dollars and just to buy a power supply that fits the machine or
> > something to that nature.
>
> You mean to say that with all your skill and experience you were unable to
> go online and buy a power supply all by yourself? You might want to take
> that PC class over again.
> ______________
>
> > He told me don't worry, I'll do it just so
> > we get it right and there will be no problems.
> > Well I said ok, no probs go ahead then. When I saw the bill and said
> > wtf is this 25 bucks for? OH, that for me working on it. I said wtf
> > I thought you said you'd do it and just so it would be done right.
> > The mother... ripped me off. So, wtf am I to say in that situation. I
> > paid him and told him this would be the last time I brought my PC
> > into this PC store.
>
> Somehow, I doubt that he cares.
> ________________
>
> > Anotherwords, you (pl) don't no how to do it.
>
> The phrase is, "in other words".
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
>
>
>
>

 

[attilathehun1]

Well, the first post by Don was correct, the power button assembly was not
working properly.
next on the list, the 10 dollar power supply was a used power supply that
works on a Gateway. The one with the fan slapped right on the side of the
power supply.
Next, I've been fixing PCs for years. I've not had to encounter the power
button assembly yet. I've fixed about 50 PCs give or take a couple. That's a
round number. Maybe more I'd say.
Next, I'd never tell someone they had to take their PC to a PC tech. The
experiences I've had with them hasn't been nice. Unless you have a friend or
have brought your PC to a tech that you've gone to before and been satified,
then I'd say don't go.
Next, don't be rude to people and belittle them. Telling them they are
non-bites when it comes to fixing PCs. I'll admit I need to learn more. I'll
bet you do too.
Next, one more shot and I'm done with the Gateway with the Pentium III CPU.
I have the DIY with 1GB of DDR 400 RAM and a new mobo/ CPU combo I bought
from newegg.com.
Alrighty, that's it for now.
Thanks, attilathehun1
--
attilathehun1


"attilathehun1" wrote:

> I'd like to know how to start up my PC without the front panel power button
> assembly because my PC won't start or fire up. Nothing happens when I hit the
> power button. The power supply works, so I figure it might be the power
> button assembly that's the problem. I'm using a process of elimination to do
> this and the power button assembly is next on the process of elimination.
> Thanks, attilathehun1
> --
> attilathehun1

 

[MEB]

I'll start with an addendum, other inline:

AT power switches generally had three wire connectors [old style cases,
four holes in the connector]], two were for power, the other, separated by a
blank/unfilled hole, was the light/LED power indicator.

"attilathehun1" <attilathehun1@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:647F92FB-3E68-4AAD-80AA-11F19131D487@microsoft.com...
| Ok, finally I got a response in detail that I can use. I didn't read both
of
| your last messages, Gary and Meb, but I can see that it's something I'm
going
| to print out.
| Ok, one more thing, I finally figured out somewhat what to do with the
| small screwdriver. I put it between the prongs where the power button
| assmebly joins the mobo. I took out the power connector and inserted the
| screw driver onto the prongs and nothing happened. I then noticed the
power
| cord wasn't plugged in. When I plugged in the power cord the PC started up
| automatically. Is that because I jumped it before the power cord was in?
I'd
| think if the power cord wasn't in and you tried to jump a PC nothing would
| happen. Sometimes my one PC starts as soon as you plug in the power cord.
| And as far as the multi-meter readings, I will take your guys advice and
| take a reading.

As we were not there to see what occurred or what you did or did not do,
why it started is unknown for sure. Perhaps the switch was stuck
in/on/pushed.

Good take your time, the multi-meter [get a digital] is an invaluable tool
for computer testing and repairs.

| Alright, I'm going to give this a shot. I tried to start up the PC with
and
| without the power button assembly and had no luck. I just went and bought
a
| power button assembly, no, I had my power button assembly fixed for no
| charge. The PC tech at PC Liquidators bent it up a bit, which is kinda
| impossible since it's plastic, but yes it's bent. he inserted a new
clicker.
| The old clicker that clicks when you push the power button on the front
panel
| wasn't working, so he took the old one out and puttied in a new clicker.

That is like asking for future failure. The switch part [not the button but
what actually performs the work] is cheap. You should replace the switch
with a new one. Radio Shack or other electronic parts supply stores will
have one which you could use or which could be modified.to work. UNLESS
that's actually what the TECH did, and glued/puttied {what country are you
in?} the button assembly back together. Again, we have no idea what work was
actually performed.


| I felt obligated to buy something from the store, since he didn't charge
me
| for the fix on the power assembly, and I bought a DVI to VGA or VGA to DVI
| connector for 10 bucks. Made for Windows not Macs.
| Alrighty, thanks for the detail infomation. It is greatly appreciated.
| Thanks, attilathehun1
| --
| attilathehun1

Good luck.

|
|
| "MEB" wrote:
|
| > Straight up answer, read it twice if necessary.
| >
| > The CASE has/should have a power supply button which has *two
leads/wires*
| > running to the ATX style motherboard [AT style testing is slightly
| > different, these power buttons are NOT momentary but provide constant
| > connection].
| >
| > IF ATX SYLE:
| > These two leads connect to two pins on the motherboard. WHERE these two
| > pins connect IS the testing position where you EITHER use the paper clip
| > WITHOUT uninstalling the connector, push the paperclip into the two
holes IN
| > the connector next two each of the two wires MOMENTARILY, OR where you
place
| > the multi-meter leads to test for voltage BEFORE OR AFTER removing the
| > connector. IF the computer boots you MAY have a bad switch OR a bad
| > connection.
| > ALSO using the multi-meter and AFTER removing the two wire connector,
place
| > the leads from the multi-meter into the connector from the power switch
and
| > test for connection using the *continuity* testing aspect of the meter
OR
| > using one of the *KOHM* settings AND *while pressing the button and
| > releasing*. IF you get a reading OTHER THAN 0 [zero] or the default
| > unconnected display, the button is good OR if the continuity test
| > BEEPS/alarms or flashes a light [depends on the meter] you have a good
| > button {usually}.
| >
| > IF the button tests okay, and the temporary connection [paper clip or
| > {shudder} screwdriver} DID NOT turn on the computer you either have a
bad
| > motherboard [or one of its components] OR a bad power supply.
| >
| > FOR THE SCREWDRIVER APPROACH: momentarily touch the two exposed pins on
the
| > motherboard from where you disconnected the power switch leads. BE
CAREFULL,
| > this is not a recommended procedure as a slip MIGHT contact other parts
of
| > the board electronics causing a DIRECT SHORT or other damage.
| >
| > IF AT STYLE:
| > IF it is an AT style board, the preferred method is to create a
| > shunt/jumper, a plain wire WITHOUT exposed wires, which you push onto
the
| > pins for completed constant connection. This is placed WITH THE POWER
| > COMPLETELY DISCONNECTED. IF this works, then replace the shunt/jumper
with a
| > new switch.
| >
| > You stated, I think, that you replaced the board, did you replace the
| > GROUNDING screw in the right hole and connection on the case and
| > motherboard?
| >
| > --
| > MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
| > --
| > _________
| >
| > "attilathehun1" <attilathehun1@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message
| > news:AB38BEB6-9100-4E3E-BC5A-96FF622FF63B@microsoft.com...
| > | Look, all I wanted to do was get a simple answer to where I touch the
| > screw
| > | driver. I know my motherboard. There is no way I can use a screw
driver
| > from
| > | the answers you have given. You haven't given me a right on answer,
| > straight,
| > | for example, touch the screw driver from the battery to the point
where
| > the
| > | start up button assembly plugs into the motherboard. Or take a paper
clip
| > and
| > | stick it into the connector where the P1 power supply connector goes
in.
| > | Nothing like that has been told to me. All these answers are vague.
| > Someone
| > | give a staight up answer.
| > | And yes I did go out and buy a power supply for 10 bucks, a used one
that
| > | works on a Gateway. Also, I do have a multi-meter that I use to test
| > | batteries. No one has told me to take the multi-meter and touch it to
a
| > | certain spot on the power supply and take a reading. Or no one has
said to
| > me
| > | to take the multi-meter and take a reading from the connector on the
| > | motherboard while the P1 is plugged in or whatever. All these answers
are
| > in
| > | the grey area.
| > | Anyone would get upset with these answers after someone saying you
don't
| > | know your elbow from you know what and then saying to take your PC to
a PC
| > | tech.
| > | I just want some definite answers. Just the way I would answer
someone
| > who
| > | asked a question if I knew the answer.
| > | Thanks,
| > attilathehun1
| > | --
| > | attilathehun1
| > |
| > |
| > | "Gary S. Terhune" wrote:
| > |
| > | > Boo-hoo-hoo. Here's a Kleenex. Now, blow. Good boy!
| > | >
| > | > Have you figured out if the power button works or not? Or are you
too
| > cheap
| > | > to buy a multi-tester?
| > | >
| > | > --
| > | > Gary S. Terhune
| > | > MS-MVP Shell/User
| > | > www.grystmill.com
| > | >
| > | > "attilathehun1" <attilathehun1@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
| > message
| > | > news:E2FA0310-D0A4-48ED-960C-6500BB8C4021@microsoft.com...
| > | > > Ok, I did and I know from trial and error. That's exactly how the
last
| > PC
| > | > > tech did it when I brought it into him. In fact, he lied. I
brought
| > the PC
| > | > > into him and told him I didn't want to pay the 25 dollars and just
to
| > buy
| > | > > a
| > | > > power supply that fits the machine or something to that nature. He
| > told me
| > | > > don't worry, I'll do it just so we get it right and there will be
no
| > | > > problems.
| > | > > Well I said ok, no probs go ahead then. When I saw the bill and
said
| > wtf
| > | > > is
| > | > > this 25 bucks for? OH, that for me working on it. I said wtf I
| > thought
| > | > > you
| > | > > said you'd do it and just so it would be done right. The mother...
| > ripped
| > | > > me
| > | > > off. So, wtf am I to say in that situation. I paid him and told
him
| > this
| > | > > would be the last time I brought my PC into this PC store.
| > | > > Getting back to the problem, which had been made into a mountain
from
| > a
| > | > > molehill, I did test it and yes the motherboard probably got
damaged
| > or
| > | > > shorted out or ESD might have ruined it . I stuck the paperclip
into
| > the
| > | > > two
| > | > > pin holes and nothing happened. So, I assume that's the problem.
| > | > > See I've never had to do this before and I figured a little
advice,
| > plain
| > | > > and simple, would be enough information. I guess not.
Anotherwords,
| > you
| > | > > (pl)
| > | > > don't no how to do it. You don't no wtf you are talking about. See
| > I've
| > | > > encountered your kind. Read upwards.
| > | > > Ok, thanks for nothing.
| > | > > attilathehun1
| > | > >
| > | > > See there are problems out there and lies from PC techs. I mean is
it
| > that
| > | > > bad? I just wanted a confirmation, and if it's going to be that
bad,
| > then
| > | > > forget it.
| > | > >
| > | > > --
| > | > > attilathehun1
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | > > "attilathehun1" wrote:
| > | > >
| > | > >> I'd like to know how to start up my PC without the front panel
power
| > | > >> button
| > | > >> assembly because my PC won't start or fire up. Nothing happens
when I
| > hit
| > | > >> the
| > | > >> power button. The power supply works, so I figure it might be the
| > power
| > | > >> button assembly that's the problem. I'm using a process of
| > elimination to
| > | > >> do
| > | > >> this and the power button assembly is next on the process of
| > elimination.
| > | > >> Thanks,
attilathehun1
| > | > >> --
| > | > >> attilathehun1

--
MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
--
_________

 

[Brian A.]

"w_tom" <w_tom1@usa.net> wrote in message
news:3af84e9a-e2eb-4928-ad8b-cdcf056982e0@b5g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> On May 10, 1:18 am, "Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote:
>> Sure, anyone can assemble a PC, yet not everyone can assemble one to the
>> specs
>> that it will operate properly. How electricity works has nothing to do with
>> how
>> one builds a PC.
>
> Which is why the OP is discussing a power supply for $25 or, even
> worse, $10. He is not alone. Many computers assemblers - including A
> + Certified Techs - need not learn how electricity works. Anybody can
> assemble a computer that will boot - and is still defective. Without
> electrical knowledge, they buy a power supply only on dollars and
> watts.

Hogwash, low cost does not mean defective and even though a user/builder may
purchase a 250 - 350 watt ps, that's more than suffucient for a great majority
of users w/power to spare.

>
> Gary Terhune has asked the OP to perform some simplest and most
> information tests. The OP instead does only what he understands. OP
> repeatedly ignores the posts that would created definitive answers.
> Why? He somehow knows which posts provide a useful answer but does
> not even have basic electrical knowledge. IOW the best (most useful)
> posts get ignored by the OP due to insufficient electrical knowledge.
>
> What provides the most useful results? Tests that result in
> numbers.
>
> What provides that continuity tester, reports in seconds where the
> problem is, and provides numbers so that others can post help? A 3.5
> digit multimeter. Why would it answer all the OP's questions? That
> answer is only obvious with basic electrical knowledge.

A continuity test does not provide numbers, it only checks that a current can
go from point A to point B. It's not a definitive test since any stranded wire
can have all but one strand broken and it will still show continuity. The same
goes for a switch if a conductor is broken yet can still make an sort of
contact. A multimeter is the way to go.

>
> Any child can build a computer that boots. Even computers with
> defective power supplies will still boot. Analysis of failure and
> solving problems before that happens both require basic electrical
> knowledge - ie the numbers.

As I stated before, one doesn't need to have electrical knowledge to
assemble/build a PC. I do agree that some is needed to tshoot if the problem
appears to be electrical.


--


Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Windows Desktop User Experience }
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

 

[Gary S. Terhune]

I'd say some basic electrical knowledge should be onboard before one even
considers opening the case, but maybe I'm just jumpy after all this talk of
screwdrivers and paperclips being stuck into live circuits by an obviously
incompetent. Yes, he's apparently very mentally ill, but that doesn't change
the fact that he's incompetent and in that sense resembles the vast majority
of computer users -- most of whom are fortunately smart enough to leave the
box closed.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote in message
news:ezNw3d0sIHA.4848@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> "w_tom" <w_tom1@usa.net> wrote in message
> news:3af84e9a-e2eb-4928-ad8b-cdcf056982e0@b5g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>> On May 10, 1:18 am, "Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote:
>>> Sure, anyone can assemble a PC, yet not everyone can assemble one to
>>> the specs
>>> that it will operate properly. How electricity works has nothing to do
>>> with how
>>> one builds a PC.
>>
>> Which is why the OP is discussing a power supply for $25 or, even
>> worse, $10. He is not alone. Many computers assemblers - including A
>> + Certified Techs - need not learn how electricity works. Anybody can
>> assemble a computer that will boot - and is still defective. Without
>> electrical knowledge, they buy a power supply only on dollars and
>> watts.
>
> Hogwash, low cost does not mean defective and even though a user/builder
> may purchase a 250 - 350 watt ps, that's more than suffucient for a great
> majority of users w/power to spare.
>
>>
>> Gary Terhune has asked the OP to perform some simplest and most
>> information tests. The OP instead does only what he understands. OP
>> repeatedly ignores the posts that would created definitive answers.
>> Why? He somehow knows which posts provide a useful answer but does
>> not even have basic electrical knowledge. IOW the best (most useful)
>> posts get ignored by the OP due to insufficient electrical knowledge.
>>
>> What provides the most useful results? Tests that result in
>> numbers.
>>
>> What provides that continuity tester, reports in seconds where the
>> problem is, and provides numbers so that others can post help? A 3.5
>> digit multimeter. Why would it answer all the OP's questions? That
>> answer is only obvious with basic electrical knowledge.
>
> A continuity test does not provide numbers, it only checks that a current
> can go from point A to point B. It's not a definitive test since any
> stranded wire can have all but one strand broken and it will still show
> continuity. The same goes for a switch if a conductor is broken yet can
> still make an sort of contact. A multimeter is the way to go.
>
>>
>> Any child can build a computer that boots. Even computers with
>> defective power supplies will still boot. Analysis of failure and
>> solving problems before that happens both require basic electrical
>> knowledge - ie the numbers.
>
> As I stated before, one doesn't need to have electrical knowledge to
> assemble/build a PC. I do agree that some is needed to tshoot if the
> problem appears to be electrical.
>
>
> --
>
>
> Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Windows Desktop User Experience }
> Conflicts start where information lacks.
> http://basconotw.mvps.org/
>
> Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
> How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
>
>

 

[Brian A.]

"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
news:eMzjx54sIHA.5096@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> I'd say some basic electrical knowledge should be onboard before one even
> considers opening the case, but maybe I'm just jumpy after all this talk of
> screwdrivers and paperclips being stuck into live circuits by an obviously
> incompetent. Yes, he's apparently very mentally ill, but that doesn't change
> the fact that he's incompetent and in that sense resembles the vast majority
> of computer users -- most of whom are fortunately smart enough to leave the
> box closed.
>
> --
> Gary S. Terhune
> MS-MVP Shell/User
> www.grystmill.com

I don't disagree when it comes to repairs. Although it could be a plus, I do
not agree it's necessary when it comes to assembling/building.


--


Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Windows Desktop User Experience }
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

 

[w_tom]

On May 11, 5:12 am, "Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote:
> Hogwash, low cost does not mean defective and even though a user/builder may
> purchase a 250 - 350 watt ps, that's more than suffucient for a great majority
> of users w/power to spare.

Brian A just proved my point. A 250 or 350 watt ps could be more
than enough. But the 250 watt supply marketed to A+ Certified techs
(certified without knowing how electricity works) may actually be only
175 watts. They did not lie. That 250 watt label was accurate. A
computer assembler without basic electrical knowledge would not
understand.

Why do so many computer assemblers then recommend 500 and 600 watt
supplies? Because the 350 watt supply was only providing 245 watts.
The computer assembler never learned why it failed. He just hypes,
"More Watts!" - which is the Tim Allen joke about people who know
without first learning. Bean counters do the same thing by throwing
money at problems rather than first learning the problem. Another
example of throwing money at problems is the UPS solution four
paragraphs down.

Second, computer may need 350 watts total. But the supply may be
undersized on one voltage. Supply works fine on one computer but
fails on another also otherwise good computer. Again, a power supply
boot another computer but not another. The informed computer designer
does not select a supply on watts. He selects on amperes for each
voltage.

Already I have probably said too much. Basic electrical knowledge
makes the "I know I am an expert" computer assembler's eyes to glaze
over. Any child can select a power supply from the retail shelf
without even looking at watts. The supply will probably boot a
computer. Therefore the child will also declare the computer fully
functional and himself a computer expert. Computer assemblers
typically have that much knowledge.

Third, Brian knows a $10 supply can output enough watts. How to
sell a fully functional power supply for only $25 at an even higher
profit margin? Remove essential functions from the $60 supply. No
acceptable supply can harm motherboard, disk drives, CPU, etc. But
that $10 supply is missing those required functions. Why include them
when the computer assembler does not even know of those functions.
Power supply vendors have found a lucrative market. Dump stripped
down power supplies for a higher profit margin to electrically naive
computer assemblers. Then when missing functions result in computer
component damage, the computer assembler blames the power company, old
household wiring, a missing UPS, heat, or ... anything but the
computer assembler without basic electrical knowledge.

Fourth, any computer must work just fine even when incandescent
bulbs are only at 40% intensity. When voltage drops that low,
functions inside a properly designed computer make low voltage
irrelevant. But a naive computer assembler bought a $25 supply, then
assumes a $100 UPS is required. Throw money at a problem rather than
learn the problem. $100 more because he saved $35 on a supply? AC
power was to blamed due to technical ignorance – a $25 power supply.
He is an expert. He fixed it with a UPS rather than learn the real
problem. Just another example of self proclaimed computer experts who
solve problems by spending more dollar and watts.

Four examples when an A+ Certified Computer Tech need not learn how
electricity works. Yes, that naivity is common in computer repair
shops when shotgunning somehow replaces knowledge.

 

[Gary S. Terhune]

You got a point there.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote in message
news:OknHQz5sIHA.1872@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
> news:eMzjx54sIHA.5096@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> I'd say some basic electrical knowledge should be onboard before one even
>> considers opening the case, but maybe I'm just jumpy after all this talk
>> of screwdrivers and paperclips being stuck into live circuits by an
>> obviously incompetent. Yes, he's apparently very mentally ill, but that
>> doesn't change the fact that he's incompetent and in that sense resembles
>> the vast majority of computer users -- most of whom are fortunately smart
>> enough to leave the box closed.
>>
>> --
>> Gary S. Terhune
>> MS-MVP Shell/User
>> www.grystmill.com
>
> I don't disagree when it comes to repairs. Although it could be a plus,
> I do not agree it's necessary when it comes to assembling/building.
>
>
> --
>
>
> Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Windows Desktop User Experience }
> Conflicts start where information lacks.
> http://basconotw.mvps.org/
>
> Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
> How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
>
>

 

[Buffalo]

attilathehun1 wrote:
> Look, all I wanted to do was get a simple answer to where I touch the
> screw driver. I know my motherboard. There is no way I can use a
> screw driver from the answers you have given. You haven't given me a
> right on answer, straight, for example, touch the screw driver from
> the battery to the point where the start up button assembly plugs
> into the motherboard. Or take a paper clip and stick it into the
> connector where the P1 power supply connector goes in. Nothing like
> that has been told to me. All these answers are vague. Someone give a
> staight up answer. And yes I did go out and buy a power supply for
> 10 bucks, a used one that works on a Gateway. Also, I do have a
> multi-meter that I use to test batteries. No one has told me to take
> the multi-meter and touch it to a certain spot on the power supply
> and take a reading. Or no one has said to me to take the multi-meter
> and take a reading from the connector on the motherboard while the P1
> is plugged in or whatever. All these answers are in the grey area.
> Anyone would get upset with these answers after someone saying you
> don't know your elbow from you know what and then saying to take your
> PC to a PC tech.
> I just want some definite answers. Just the way I would answer
> someone who asked a question if I knew the answer.
> Thanks,
> attilathehun1

The Start button is just a spring loaded switch that momentary connects the
two wires tohether going to it. (ie: connects the two wires together as long
as the button is held in and then disconnects them when the button is
released).
If you disconnect the wires from the Start button (switch) and momentarily
short them together (usually a paper clip will suffice.) the computer should
start if the Power On switch is faulty and everything else is OK.

To test the Start button (switch) itself, you would need to disconnect the
wires from it (same ones as above), put your multimeter on 'continuity' and
put its leads on the Start button connectors themselves. Now, when you push
the button in, the meter should read a direct short (needle will swing or
readout will be 0 or the buzzer on the meter will sound).
Hope this helps.

Sounding like a smart-ass doesn't help either, even if you are getting
frustrated.

Buffalo

 

[Buffalo]

Buffalo wrote:
>
> The Start button is just a spring loaded switch that momentary
> connects the two wires tohether going to it. (ie: connects the two
> wires together as long as the button is held in and then disconnects
> them when the button is released).
> If you disconnect the wires from the Start button (switch) and
> momentarily short them together (usually a paper clip will suffice.)
> the computer should start if the Power On switch is faulty and
> everything else is OK.

I meant to say Start button and not Power On switch.

>
> To test the Start button (switch) itself, you would need to
> disconnect the wires from it (same ones as above), put your
> multimeter on 'continuity' and put its leads on the Start button
> connectors themselves. Now, when you push the button in, the meter
> should read a direct short (needle will swing or readout will be 0 or
> the buzzer on the meter will sound).
> Hope this helps.
>
> Sounding like a smart-ass doesn't help either, even if you are getting
> frustrated.
>
> Buffalo

 

[Brian A.]

"w_tom" <w_tom1@usa.net> wrote in message
news:bd4df607-c68a-4fe0-a79a-8556d92a146c@y22g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
On May 11, 5:12 am, "Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote:
> Hogwash, low cost does not mean defective and even though a user/builder may
> purchase a 250 - 350 watt ps, that's more than suffucient for a great majority
> of users w/power to spare.

Brian A just proved my point.

Hardly.


--


Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Windows Desktop User Experience }
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375