Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

[philo]

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:uSXh$FanIHA.5820@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> philo wrote:
> > <snip>
> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There are some drivers listed here but I have not tried them:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks again, already had tried those (those were the two
included in
> >>>> that other zip I tried).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Well if you cannot get any USB drivers for DOS...
> >>> I did see a PCI card at Newegg that has ps/2 ports (and USB)
> >>> but who knows if it would work in dos???
> >>
> >> That is interesting. I didn't know PS/2 I/O PCI cards were
also
> >> available.
> >>
> >> Sometimes it says (if the specs are complete enough!), because I
did
see
> >> a
> >> Serial Port PCI I/O card stating that (DOS, along with Win9x, XP,
etc,
> >> so
> >> presumably some drivers are also included if needed).
> >>
> >>> Just out of curiosity I wonder why you purchased a new machine to
run
> >>> dos
> >>> applications?
> >>
> >> I didn't! (except for a few occasions).
> >>
> >
> > Well I just though of something that was maybe a bit too obvious...
> > but a standard serial mouse is sure to work in DOS if all else
fails.
>
> Fortunately that MS mouse.exe file worked.
>
> > Although serial port cards are not rare, if your machine does not
have a
> > serial port...
> > have a look inside...as many newer motherboards do have serial
port
> > headers...even if there is no port brought out to the back of the
case
>
> Just out of curiosity: I had read something to that effect before,
but
> I'm not sure how one would use it, if one wanted to. What does that
really
> mean - that there is a serial connector on the motherboard, or that
some
> special adapter would have to be connected to that "port header"
(whatever
> that is)?
>
>

Congratulations on finally getting it going!


Here's the deal:

Most new machines no longer bother with using a serial or parallel
port.

However...quite a few new motherboards do in-fact have serial
capabilities.
The board not only has a serial UART chip.
(Universal asynchronous receiver/ transmitter you can tell your
friends)
It has the headers (or pins) on the motherboards for actually hooking
up a
serial connector.
The manufacturer simply did not supply the connector on the back of the
case.

So...if you need a serial port and if the motherboard actually has the
serial headers on it...
it's just a simple matter of plugging in the data wires and mounting
the
port on the back of the case
or in an vacant slot. It would add about 20 cents to the cost of the
machine...
but it's often just not added.


--

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[Bill in Co.]

philo wrote:
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:uSXh$FanIHA.5820@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> philo wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are some drivers listed here but I have not tried them:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks again, already had tried those (those were the two
included in
>>>>>> that other zip I tried).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well if you cannot get any USB drivers for DOS...
>>>>> I did see a PCI card at Newegg that has ps/2 ports (and USB)
>>>>> but who knows if it would work in dos???
>>>>
>>>> That is interesting. I didn't know PS/2 I/O PCI cards were
also
>>>> available.
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes it says (if the specs are complete enough!), because I
did
>>>> see
>>>> a Serial Port PCI I/O card stating that (DOS, along with Win9x,
XP,
>>>> etc,
>>>> so presumably some drivers are also included if needed).
>>>>
>>>>> Just out of curiosity I wonder why you purchased a new machine to
run
>>>>> dos applications?
>>>>
>>>> I didn't! (except for a few occasions).
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well I just though of something that was maybe a bit too obvious...
>>> but a standard serial mouse is sure to work in DOS if all else
fails.
>>
>> Fortunately that MS mouse.exe file worked.
>>
>>> Although serial port cards are not rare, if your machine does not
have a
>>> serial port...
>>> have a look inside...as many newer motherboards do have serial
port
>>> headers...even if there is no port brought out to the back of the
case
>>
>> Just out of curiosity: I had read something to that effect
before, but
>> I'm not sure how one would use it, if one wanted to. What does
that
>> really
>> mean - that there is a serial connector on the motherboard, or that
some
>> special adapter would have to be connected to that "port header"
>> (whatever
>> that is)?
>>
>
> Congratulations on finally getting it going!

Yeah, thanks, and it really made my day, although I felt a bit dumb for
not
having tried mouse.exe it in the first place.

AND then trying those other (primarily Mass Storage) USB DOS drivers,
w/o
anything specifically related to a mouse.

> Here's the deal:
>
> Most new machines no longer bother with using a serial or parallel
port.

Right, I know that too.

> However...quite a few new motherboards do in-fact have serial
> capabilities.
> The board not only has a serial UART chip.
> (Universal asynchronous receiver/ transmitter you can tell your
friends)

(know that too

> It has the headers (or pins) on the motherboards for actually hooking
up a
> serial connector.

Oh, ok, that's what it means. Just the pins protuding up from the
MB.
And 9 pins, I expect?

> The manufacturer simply did not supply the connector on the back of
the
> case.
>
> So...if you need a serial port and if the motherboard actually has
the
> serial headers on it...
> it's just a simple matter of plugging in the data wires and mounting
the
> port on the back of the case
> or in an vacant slot. It would add about 20 cents to the cost of the
> machine... but it's often just not added.

Actually, it doesn't sound too simple do the mechanics of it!
Electrically it's simple, but finding the rest of it might be a pain!


--

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[philo]

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:%23ZfH8fbnIHA.4664@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> philo wrote:
> > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:uSXh$FanIHA.5820@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> >> philo wrote:
> >>> <snip>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> There are some drivers listed here but I have not tried them:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks again, already had tried those (those were the two
included
in
> >>>>>> that other zip I tried).
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well if you cannot get any USB drivers for DOS...
> >>>>> I did see a PCI card at Newegg that has ps/2 ports (and USB)
> >>>>> but who knows if it would work in dos???
> >>>>
> >>>> That is interesting. I didn't know PS/2 I/O PCI cards were
also
> >>>> available.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sometimes it says (if the specs are complete enough!), because I
did
> >>>> see
> >>>> a Serial Port PCI I/O card stating that (DOS, along with Win9x,
XP,
> >>>> etc,
> >>>> so presumably some drivers are also included if needed).
> >>>>
> >>>>> Just out of curiosity I wonder why you purchased a new machine
to
run
> >>>>> dos applications?
> >>>>
> >>>> I didn't! (except for a few occasions).
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Well I just though of something that was maybe a bit too
obvious...
> >>> but a standard serial mouse is sure to work in DOS if all else
fails.
> >>
> >> Fortunately that MS mouse.exe file worked.
> >>
> >>> Although serial port cards are not rare, if your machine does not
have
a
> >>> serial port...
> >>> have a look inside...as many newer motherboards do have serial
port
> >>> headers...even if there is no port brought out to the back of the
case
> >>
> >> Just out of curiosity: I had read something to that effect
before,
but
> >> I'm not sure how one would use it, if one wanted to. What does
that
> >> really
> >> mean - that there is a serial connector on the motherboard, or
that
some
> >> special adapter would have to be connected to that "port header"
> >> (whatever
> >> that is)?
> >>
> >
> > Congratulations on finally getting it going!
>
> Yeah, thanks, and it really made my day, although I felt a bit dumb
for
not
> having tried mouse.exe it in the first place.
>
> AND then trying those other (primarily Mass Storage) USB DOS drivers,
w/o
> anything specifically related to a mouse.
>
> > Here's the deal:
> >
> > Most new machines no longer bother with using a serial or parallel
port.
>
> Right, I know that too.
>
> > However...quite a few new motherboards do in-fact have serial
> > capabilities.
> > The board not only has a serial UART chip.
> > (Universal asynchronous receiver/ transmitter you can tell your
friends)
>
> (know that too
>
> > It has the headers (or pins) on the motherboards for actually
hooking up
a
> > serial connector.
>
> Oh, ok, that's what it means. Just the pins protuding up from the
MB.
> And 9 pins, I expect?
>
> > The manufacturer simply did not supply the connector on the back of
the
> > case.
> >
> > So...if you need a serial port and if the motherboard actually has
the
> > serial headers on it...
> > it's just a simple matter of plugging in the data wires and
mounting the
> > port on the back of the case
> > or in an vacant slot. It would add about 20 cents to the cost of
the
> > machine... but it's often just not added.
>
> Actually, it doesn't sound too simple do the mechanics of it!
> Electrically it's simple, but finding the rest of it might be a pain!
>
>


It's just a 9 pin head
4 on one side and 5 on the other.
Serial ports can be purchased with the cable and plug already
attached...
and since the plug is generally keyed...can only go in one way.
It's as simple as just plugging it in and mounting the port.
It only takes a few seconds to do and it does not take any skill

The only important thing is verifying there there is in-fact a header
and finding the location.

A motherboard manual is helpful and would be avail on the mfg's
website.
otherwise a good light and some reading glasses may be in order...
it would probably have a label such as Com1


--

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[Franc Zabkar]

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:27:47 -0600, "Bill in Co."
<not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>So it appears that any PS/2 - Serial Adapters will *have* to have some
>electronics inside, afterall, and are NOT just simply rewired,
afterall.

No, AIUI the combo mouse has all the electronics for both interfaces
and protocols whereas a PS/2 mouse is PS/2 only and a serial mouse is
serial only.

See http://pinouts.ru/InputCables/MousePs2Serial_pinout.shtml
and http://pinouts.ru/InputCables/MouseSerialPs2_pinout.shtml

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.


--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

 

[Bill in Co.]

Franc Zabkar wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:27:47 -0600, "Bill in Co."
> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
>> So it appears that any PS/2 - Serial Adapters will *have* to have
some
>> electronics inside, afterall, and are NOT just simply rewired,
afterall.
>
> No, AIUI the combo mouse has all the electronics for both interfaces
> and protocols whereas a PS/2 mouse is PS/2 only and a serial mouse is
> serial only.
>
> See http://pinouts.ru/InputCables/MousePs2Serial_pinout.shtml
> and http://pinouts.ru/InputCables/MouseSerialPs2_pinout.shtml

AIUI? (don't know that one)

But Franc, I have also seen advertised some basic PS/2 to Serial (or
vice
versa) plug adapters (no mice included). They just look like
connectors,
with a very short cable (or even non-existent cable, just molded into
one
assembly), at least as I recall.


--

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[Bill in Co.]

philo wrote:
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:%23ZfH8fbnIHA.4664@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> philo wrote:
>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> news:uSXh$FanIHA.5820@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>> philo wrote:
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are some drivers listed here but I have not tried them:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks again, already had tried those (those were the two
included
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> that other zip I tried).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well if you cannot get any USB drivers for DOS...
>>>>>>> I did see a PCI card at Newegg that has ps/2 ports (and USB)
>>>>>>> but who knows if it would work in dos???
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is interesting. I didn't know PS/2 I/O PCI cards were
also
>>>>>> available.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sometimes it says (if the specs are complete enough!), because I
did
>>>>>> see
>>>>>> a Serial Port PCI I/O card stating that (DOS, along with Win9x,
XP,
>>>>>> etc, so presumably some drivers are also included if needed).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just out of curiosity I wonder why you purchased a new machine
to
>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>> dos applications?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I didn't! (except for a few occasions).
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well I just though of something that was maybe a bit too
obvious...
>>>>> but a standard serial mouse is sure to work in DOS if all else
fails.
>>>>
>>>> Fortunately that MS mouse.exe file worked.
>>>>
>>>>> Although serial port cards are not rare, if your machine does not
have
>>>>> a
>>>>> serial port...
>>>>> have a look inside...as many newer motherboards do have serial
port
>>>>> headers...even if there is no port brought out to the back of the
case
>>>>
>>>> Just out of curiosity: I had read something to that effect
before,
>>>> but
>>>> I'm not sure how one would use it, if one wanted to. What does
that
>>>> really
>>>> mean - that there is a serial connector on the motherboard, or
that
>>>> some
>>>> special adapter would have to be connected to that "port header"
>>>> (whatever that is)?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Congratulations on finally getting it going!
>>
>> Yeah, thanks, and it really made my day, although I felt a bit dumb
for
>> not
>> having tried mouse.exe it in the first place.
>>
>> AND then trying those other (primarily Mass Storage) USB DOS
drivers, w/o
>> anything specifically related to a mouse.
>>
>>> Here's the deal:
>>>
>>> Most new machines no longer bother with using a serial or parallel
>>> port.
>>
>> Right, I know that too.
>>
>>> However...quite a few new motherboards do in-fact have serial
>>> capabilities.
>>> The board not only has a serial UART chip.
>>> (Universal asynchronous receiver/ transmitter you can tell your
friends)
>>
>> (know that too
>>
>>> It has the headers (or pins) on the motherboards for actually
hooking up
>>> a
>>> serial connector.
>>
>> Oh, ok, that's what it means. Just the pins protuding up from the
MB.
>> And 9 pins, I expect?
>>
>>> The manufacturer simply did not supply the connector on the back of
the
>>> case.
>>>
>>> So...if you need a serial port and if the motherboard actually has
the
>>> serial headers on it...
>>> it's just a simple matter of plugging in the data wires and
mounting the
>>> port on the back of the case
>>> or in an vacant slot. It would add about 20 cents to the cost of
the
>>> machine... but it's often just not added.
>>
>> Actually, it doesn't sound too simple do the mechanics of it!
>> Electrically it's simple, but finding the rest of it might be a
pain!
>>
>
> It's just a 9 pin head
> 4 on one side and 5 on the other.

Not sure what this means. Or 4 on one side and 5 on the other.
(I'm
thinking of the picture of a standard serial 9 pin connector or plug)

> Serial ports can be purchased with the cable and plug already
attached...

Is this what is meant by a "serial port"? But that's basically just
the
connector, isn't it? I thought the term "serial port" implied it had
the
card to go along with it, and all the associated electronics.
Otherwise
it would be called a serial port *connector*?


> and since the plug is generally keyed...can only go in one way.
> It's as simple as just plugging it in and mounting the port.
> It only takes a few seconds to do and it does not take any skill
>
> The only important thing is verifying there there is in-fact a header
> and finding the location.

Well, first you have to find one of those PCI card metal slot things
for
which to mount it in, that has the right hole to fit the connector,
unless
you can buy that directly. That's what I meant.

> A motherboard manual is helpful and would be avail on the mfg's
website.
> otherwise a good light and some reading glasses may be in order...
> it would probably have a label such as Com1


--

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[philo]

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:eOlqfhcnIHA.4292@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> philo wrote:
> > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:%23ZfH8fbnIHA.4664@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> >> philo wrote:
> >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >>> news:uSXh$FanIHA.5820@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> >>>> philo wrote:
> >>>>> <snip>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> There are some drivers listed here but I have not tried
them:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thanks again, already had tried those (those were the two
included
> >>>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>> that other zip I tried).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well if you cannot get any USB drivers for DOS...
> >>>>>>> I did see a PCI card at Newegg that has ps/2 ports (and USB)
> >>>>>>> but who knows if it would work in dos???
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> That is interesting. I didn't know PS/2 I/O PCI cards were
also
> >>>>>> available.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sometimes it says (if the specs are complete enough!), because
I
did
> >>>>>> see
> >>>>>> a Serial Port PCI I/O card stating that (DOS, along with
Win9x,
XP,
> >>>>>> etc, so presumably some drivers are also included if needed).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Just out of curiosity I wonder why you purchased a new
machine to
> >>>>>>> run
> >>>>>>> dos applications?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I didn't! (except for a few occasions).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well I just though of something that was maybe a bit too
obvious...
> >>>>> but a standard serial mouse is sure to work in DOS if all else
fails.
> >>>>
> >>>> Fortunately that MS mouse.exe file worked.
> >>>>
> >>>>> Although serial port cards are not rare, if your machine does
not
have
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> serial port...
> >>>>> have a look inside...as many newer motherboards do have serial
port
> >>>>> headers...even if there is no port brought out to the back of
the
case
> >>>>
> >>>> Just out of curiosity: I had read something to that effect
before,
> >>>> but
> >>>> I'm not sure how one would use it, if one wanted to. What does
that
> >>>> really
> >>>> mean - that there is a serial connector on the motherboard, or
that
> >>>> some
> >>>> special adapter would have to be connected to that "port header"
> >>>> (whatever that is)?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Congratulations on finally getting it going!
> >>
> >> Yeah, thanks, and it really made my day, although I felt a bit
dumb for
> >> not
> >> having tried mouse.exe it in the first place.
> >>
> >> AND then trying those other (primarily Mass Storage) USB DOS
drivers,
w/o
> >> anything specifically related to a mouse.
> >>
> >>> Here's the deal:
> >>>
> >>> Most new machines no longer bother with using a serial or
parallel
> >>> port.
> >>
> >> Right, I know that too.
> >>
> >>> However...quite a few new motherboards do in-fact have serial
> >>> capabilities.
> >>> The board not only has a serial UART chip.
> >>> (Universal asynchronous receiver/ transmitter you can tell your
friends)
> >>
> >> (know that too
> >>
> >>> It has the headers (or pins) on the motherboards for actually
hooking
up
> >>> a
> >>> serial connector.
> >>
> >> Oh, ok, that's what it means. Just the pins protuding up from
the
MB.
> >> And 9 pins, I expect?
> >>
> >>> The manufacturer simply did not supply the connector on the back
of
the
> >>> case.
> >>>
> >>> So...if you need a serial port and if the motherboard actually
has the
> >>> serial headers on it...
> >>> it's just a simple matter of plugging in the data wires and
mounting
the
> >>> port on the back of the case
> >>> or in an vacant slot. It would add about 20 cents to the cost of
the
> >>> machine... but it's often just not added.
> >>
> >> Actually, it doesn't sound too simple do the mechanics of it!
> >> Electrically it's simple, but finding the rest of it might be a
pain!
> >>
> >
> > It's just a 9 pin head
> > 4 on one side and 5 on the other.
>
> Not sure what this means. Or 4 on one side and 5 on the other.
(I'm
> thinking of the picture of a standard serial 9 pin connector or plug)
>
> > Serial ports can be purchased with the cable and plug already
attached...
>
> Is this what is meant by a "serial port"? But that's basically
just the
> connector, isn't it? I thought the term "serial port" implied it
had
the
> card to go along with it, and all the associated electronics.
Otherwise
> it would be called a serial port *connector*?
>
>

<snip>

on the mobo there would be two rows of parallel pins:
4 pins on one side and 5 on the other...
the pins would connect to the UART chip on the motherboard.

So as you say, the serial connector and it's wiring would simply have
to be
added
if one were not present


I found a picture here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_port

That contains and add-on port with the connector and wiring.

If your motherboard already has the serial UART on it..it would simply
be a
matter of
plugging in the data cable that you can see on the picture.

OTOH: If the motherboard has no serial chip and pins.
you'd need the entire PCI (-x) card


--

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[rebel]

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:32:30 -0600, "Bill in Co."
<not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Franc Zabkar wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:27:47 -0600, "Bill in Co."
>> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>>
>>> So it appears that any PS/2 - Serial Adapters will *have* to have
some
>>> electronics inside, afterall, and are NOT just simply rewired,
afterall.
>>
>> No, AIUI the combo mouse has all the electronics for both interfaces
>> and protocols whereas a PS/2 mouse is PS/2 only and a serial mouse
is
>> serial only.
>>
>> See http://pinouts.ru/InputCables/MousePs2Serial_pinout.shtml
>> and http://pinouts.ru/InputCables/MouseSerialPs2_pinout.shtml
>
>AIUI? (don't know that one)

As I understand it

>But Franc, I have also seen advertised some basic PS/2 to Serial (or
vice
>versa) plug adapters (no mice included). They just look like
connectors,
>with a very short cable (or even non-existent cable, just molded into
one
>assembly), at least as I recall.

and those adpators ONLY work with certain mice - which turn out to be
the
bilingual ones using the appropriate bilingual driver.


--

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[Bill in Co.]

philo wrote:
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:eOlqfhcnIHA.4292@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> philo wrote:
>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> news:%23ZfH8fbnIHA.4664@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>>> philo wrote:
>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:uSXh$FanIHA.5820@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> philo wrote:
>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There are some drivers listed here but I have not tried
them:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks again, already had tried those (those were the two
>>>>>>>>>> included
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> that other zip I tried).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well if you cannot get any USB drivers for DOS...
>>>>>>>>> I did see a PCI card at Newegg that has ps/2 ports (and USB)
>>>>>>>>> but who knows if it would work in dos???
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is interesting. I didn't know PS/2 I/O PCI cards were
also
>>>>>>>> available.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sometimes it says (if the specs are complete enough!), because
I
>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>> a Serial Port PCI I/O card stating that (DOS, along with
Win9x,
>>>>>>>> XP,
>>>>>>>> etc, so presumably some drivers are also included if needed).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just out of curiosity I wonder why you purchased a new
machine to
>>>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>>>> dos applications?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I didn't! (except for a few occasions).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well I just though of something that was maybe a bit too
obvious...
>>>>>>> but a standard serial mouse is sure to work in DOS if all else
>>>>>>> fails.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fortunately that MS mouse.exe file worked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Although serial port cards are not rare, if your machine does
not
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> serial port...
>>>>>>> have a look inside...as many newer motherboards do have serial
port
>>>>>>> headers...even if there is no port brought out to the back of
the
>>>>>>> case
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just out of curiosity: I had read something to that effect
before,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> I'm not sure how one would use it, if one wanted to. What does
that
>>>>>> really
>>>>>> mean - that there is a serial connector on the motherboard, or
that
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> special adapter would have to be connected to that "port header"
>>>>>> (whatever that is)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Congratulations on finally getting it going!
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, thanks, and it really made my day, although I felt a bit
dumb for
>>>> not
>>>> having tried mouse.exe it in the first place.
>>>>
>>>> AND then trying those other (primarily Mass Storage) USB DOS
drivers,
>>>> w/o
>>>> anything specifically related to a mouse.
>>>>
>>>>> Here's the deal:
>>>>>
>>>>> Most new machines no longer bother with using a serial or
parallel
>>>>> port.
>>>>
>>>> Right, I know that too.
>>>>
>>>>> However...quite a few new motherboards do in-fact have serial
>>>>> capabilities.
>>>>> The board not only has a serial UART chip.
>>>>> (Universal asynchronous receiver/ transmitter you can tell your
>>>>> friends)
>>>>
>>>> (know that too
>>>>
>>>>> It has the headers (or pins) on the motherboards for actually
hooking
>>>>> up
>>>>> a
>>>>> serial connector.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, ok, that's what it means. Just the pins protuding up from
the
>>>> MB.
>>>> And 9 pins, I expect?
>>>>
>>>>> The manufacturer simply did not supply the connector on the back
of
>>>>> the
>>>>> case.
>>>>>
>>>>> So...if you need a serial port and if the motherboard actually
has the
>>>>> serial headers on it...
>>>>> it's just a simple matter of plugging in the data wires and
mounting
>>>>> the
>>>>> port on the back of the case
>>>>> or in an vacant slot. It would add about 20 cents to the cost of
the
>>>>> machine... but it's often just not added.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, it doesn't sound too simple do the mechanics of it!
>>>> Electrically it's simple, but finding the rest of it might be a
pain!
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's just a 9 pin head
>>> 4 on one side and 5 on the other.
>>
>> Not sure what this means. Or 4 on one side and 5 on the other.
>> (I'm
>> thinking of the picture of a standard serial 9 pin connector or
plug)
>>
>>> Serial ports can be purchased with the cable and plug already
>>> attached...
>>
>> Is this what is meant by a "serial port"? But that's basically
just
>> the
>> connector, isn't it? I thought the term "serial port" implied it
had
>> the
>> card to go along with it, and all the associated electronics.
>> Otherwise
>> it would be called a serial port *connector*?
>>
>>
>
> <snip>
>
> on the mobo there would be two rows of parallel pins:
> 4 pins on one side and 5 on the other...
> the pins would connect to the UART chip on the motherboard.

OK, I get that now.

> So as you say, the serial connector and it's wiring would simply have
to
> be
> added if one were not present
>
>
> I found a picture here
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_port
>
> That contains and add-on port with the connector and wiring.
>
> If your motherboard already has the serial UART on it..it would
simply be
> a
> matter of plugging in the data cable that you can see on the picture.

Oh, ok, you're saying that if the MB has that, you can buy this cable
and
connector and mounting bracket assembly, to mount in the back of the
computer (just like for any add in PCI card). I didn't know those
existed. Thanks for the info.

> OTOH: If the motherboard has no serial chip and pins.
> you'd need the entire PCI (-x) card


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[Bill Blanton]

"MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:u8ifLpSnIHA.3512@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Well, I must say that somewhat surprises me as well, that is not what
is
> generally found [generally the first failure encountered].
>
> It would be interesting to know the manufacturer and model for that
USB
> mouse, so others might find this on the net for their attempts.
> Might be wise to put up the motherboard/computer manufacturer and
model as
> well. This would, perhaps, allow placement of the chipset
information.
>
> Seems you may have USB compatibility/PS2 emulation in-built and
turned on
> by default.

That would be my guess too. There's no penalty for "legacy mode" or
"PS/2 emulation"
at the BIOS level once Windows boots and loads its own drivers. However
it may not be
desirable for some non-Windows (and possibly *nix) machines. How many
are there?

The fact that mouse.exe works suggests that PS/2 is being emulated.


> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:urhoL7OnIHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> | Just a followup. I can't believe I missed something here!
> |
> | On a hunch, I tried loading "mouse.exe", and THAT worked in DOS -
without
> | ANY of these other USB drivers.
> |
> | I think I've been spinning my wheels on something that wasn't a
problem to
> | begin with, in that I never explicitly loaded a mouse driver, per
se, (I
> | just assumed the old Microsoft "mouse.exe" driver (dated 1999!)
would NOT
> be
> | compatible with USB mice). Duh to me.
> |


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[MEB]

"Bill Blanton" <bblanton@REMOVEmagicnet.net> wrote in message
news:%23rBjbddnIHA.3532@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
| "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:u8ifLpSnIHA.3512@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
| > Well, I must say that somewhat surprises me as well, that is not
what is
| > generally found [generally the first failure encountered].
| >
| > It would be interesting to know the manufacturer and model for that
USB
| > mouse, so others might find this on the net for their attempts.
| > Might be wise to put up the motherboard/computer manufacturer and
model
as
| > well. This would, perhaps, allow placement of the chipset
information.
| >
| > Seems you may have USB compatibility/PS2 emulation in-built and
turned
on
| > by default.
|
| That would be my guess too. There's no penalty for "legacy mode" or
"PS/2
emulation"
| at the BIOS level once Windows boots and loads its own drivers.
However it
may not be
| desirable for some non-Windows (and possibly *nix) machines. How many
are
there?
|
| The fact that mouse.exe works suggests that PS/2 is being emulated.
|

Yeah, seems so. I'm not sure if there would be a problem with *NIX
machines
either, as that is handled in the kernel now anyway..

Anyone know for sure?

--
MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
--
_________


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[philo]

<snip>


> >>>>
> >>>>> It has the headers (or pins) on the motherboards for actually
hooking
> >>>>> up
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> serial connector.
> >>>>
> >>>> Oh, ok, that's what it means. Just the pins protuding up from
the
> >>>> MB.
> >>>> And 9 pins, I expect?
> >>>>
> >>>>> The manufacturer simply did not supply the connector on the
back of
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> case.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So...if you need a serial port and if the motherboard actually
has
the
> >>>>> serial headers on it...
> >>>>> it's just a simple matter of plugging in the data wires and
mounting
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> port on the back of the case
> >>>>> or in an vacant slot. It would add about 20 cents to the cost
of the
> >>>>> machine... but it's often just not added.
> >>>>
> >>>> Actually, it doesn't sound too simple do the mechanics of it!
> >>>> Electrically it's simple, but finding the rest of it might be a
pain!
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> It's just a 9 pin head
> >>> 4 on one side and 5 on the other.
> >>
> >> Not sure what this means. Or 4 on one side and 5 on the other.
> >> (I'm
> >> thinking of the picture of a standard serial 9 pin connector or
plug)
> >>
> >>> Serial ports can be purchased with the cable and plug already
> >>> attached...
> >>
> >> Is this what is meant by a "serial port"? But that's basically
just
> >> the
> >> connector, isn't it? I thought the term "serial port" implied
it had
> >> the
> >> card to go along with it, and all the associated electronics.
> >> Otherwise
> >> it would be called a serial port *connector*?
> >>
> >>
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > on the mobo there would be two rows of parallel pins:
> > 4 pins on one side and 5 on the other...
> > the pins would connect to the UART chip on the motherboard.
>
> OK, I get that now.
>
> > So as you say, the serial connector and it's wiring would simply
have to
> > be
> > added if one were not present
> >
> >
> > I found a picture here
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_port
> >
> > That contains and add-on port with the connector and wiring.
> >
> > If your motherboard already has the serial UART on it..it would
simply
be
> > a
> > matter of plugging in the data cable that you can see on the
picture.
>
> Oh, ok, you're saying that if the MB has that, you can buy this cable
and
> connector and mounting bracket assembly, to mount in the back of the
> computer (just like for any add in PCI card). I didn't know those
> existed. Thanks for the info.
>
>

Yes, if the motherboard already has a serial port header (the nine
pins)
then all you'd need is the nine pin serial connector with wires and
mounting
bracket.
I'm sure any computer repair shop would have a drawer full of them
sitting
around


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[Bill in Co.]

rebel wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:32:30 -0600, "Bill in Co."
> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Franc Zabkar wrote:
>>> On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:27:47 -0600, "Bill in Co."
>>> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and
composed:
>>>
>>>> So it appears that any PS/2 - Serial Adapters will *have* to have
some
>>>> electronics inside, afterall, and are NOT just simply rewired,
>>>> afterall.
>>>
>>> No, AIUI the combo mouse has all the electronics for both
interfaces
>>> and protocols whereas a PS/2 mouse is PS/2 only and a serial mouse
is
>>> serial only.
>>>
>>> See http://pinouts.ru/InputCables/MousePs2Serial_pinout.shtml
>>> and http://pinouts.ru/InputCables/MouseSerialPs2_pinout.shtml
>>
>> AIUI? (don't know that one)
>
> As I understand it
>
>> But Franc, I have also seen advertised some basic PS/2 to Serial (or
vice
>> versa) plug adapters (no mice included). They just look like
>> connectors,
>> with a very short cable (or even non-existent cable, just molded
into one
>> assembly), at least as I recall.
>
> and those adapters ONLY work with certain mice - which turn out to be
the
> bilingual ones using the appropriate bilingual driver.

OK. Thanks for that info, and that seems to clear up some things.
So if I'm reading that right, that implies those simple PS/2 to Serial
adapter connectors may indeed be just rewired (and have no
electronics),
but, as you both said, a bilingual mouse would have to be used with
them
(assuming you needed the adapter in the first place).


--

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[Franc Zabkar]

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:32:30 -0600, "Bill in Co."
<not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>Franc Zabkar wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:27:47 -0600, "Bill in Co."
>> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>>
>>> So it appears that any PS/2 - Serial Adapters will *have* to have
some
>>> electronics inside, afterall, and are NOT just simply rewired,
afterall.
>>
>> No, AIUI the combo mouse has all the electronics for both interfaces
>> and protocols whereas a PS/2 mouse is PS/2 only and a serial mouse
is
>> serial only.
>>
>> See http://pinouts.ru/InputCables/MousePs2Serial_pinout.shtml
>> and http://pinouts.ru/InputCables/MouseSerialPs2_pinout.shtml
>
>AIUI? (don't know that one)

>But Franc, I have also seen advertised some basic PS/2 to Serial (or
vice
>versa) plug adapters (no mice included). They just look like
connectors,
>with a very short cable (or even non-existent cable, just molded into
one
>assembly), at least as I recall.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The connectors are passive, ie no electronics
inside. The mice have all the smarts.

According to the above URLs:

"The 'dual mode' mice have an automatic logic detection and sort of
adaptive interface electronic, which detects whether the mouse is
attached to a serial port or a PS/2 port and set the output drivers
accordingly."

BTW, the "output drivers" are driver chips, not software drivers.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.


--

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[Franc Zabkar]

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:34:42 -0500, "philo" <philo@privacy.net> put
finger to keyboard and composed:

>Yes, if the motherboard already has a serial port header (the nine
pins)
>then all you'd need is the nine pin serial connector with wires and
mounting
>bracket.
>I'm sure any computer repair shop would have a drawer full of them
sitting
>around

Be aware that there are two common wiring conventions which are not
compatible.

This is one layout (with a 10-pin header):
http://pinouts.ru/SerialPorts/Serial9_pinout.shtml

In one case the motherboard header is numbered as follows (as seen
from the 9-pin end of the internal transition cable) ...

2 10
--------
| |
--------
1 9

.... whereas others are numbered this way:

6 10
--------
| |
--------
1 5

Pin 10 is not connected in either case.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.


--

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[Bill in Co.]

Franc Zabkar wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:32:30 -0600, "Bill in Co."
> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
>> Franc Zabkar wrote:
>>> On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:27:47 -0600, "Bill in Co."
>>> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and
composed:
>>>
>>>> So it appears that any PS/2 - Serial Adapters will *have* to have
some
>>>> electronics inside, afterall, and are NOT just simply rewired,
>>>> afterall.
>>>
>>> No, AIUI the combo mouse has all the electronics for both
interfaces
>>> and protocols whereas a PS/2 mouse is PS/2 only and a serial mouse
is
>>> serial only.
>>>
>>> See http://pinouts.ru/InputCables/MousePs2Serial_pinout.shtml
>>> and http://pinouts.ru/InputCables/MouseSerialPs2_pinout.shtml
>>
>> AIUI? (don't know that one)
>
>> But Franc, I have also seen advertised some basic PS/2 to Serial (or
vice
>> versa) plug adapters (no mice included). They just look like
>> connectors,
>> with a very short cable (or even non-existent cable, just molded
into one
>> assembly), at least as I recall.
>
> Sorry, I wasn't clear. The connectors are passive, ie no electronics
> inside. The mice have all the smarts.

OK.

> According to the above URLs:
>
> "The 'dual mode' mice have an automatic logic detection and sort of
> adaptive interface electronic, which detects whether the mouse is
> attached to a serial port or a PS/2 port and set the output drivers
> accordingly."

Nice!

> BTW, the "output drivers" are driver chips, not software drivers.


--

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[philo]

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:8id704ti9qk32lngc38kutcj6tmb7cd5pa@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:34:42 -0500, "philo" <philo@privacy.net> put
> finger to keyboard and composed:
>
> >Yes, if the motherboard already has a serial port header (the nine
pins)
> >then all you'd need is the nine pin serial connector with wires and
mounting
> >bracket.
> >I'm sure any computer repair shop would have a drawer full of them
sitting
> >around
>
> Be aware that there are two common wiring conventions which are not
> compatible.
>
> This is one layout (with a 10-pin header):
> http://pinouts.ru/SerialPorts/Serial9_pinout.shtml
>
> In one case the motherboard header is numbered as follows (as seen
> from the 9-pin end of the internal transition cable) ...
>
> 2 10
> --------
> | |
> --------
> 1 9
>
> ... whereas others are numbered this way:
>
> 6 10
> --------
> | |
> --------
> 1 5
>
> Pin 10 is not connected in either case.
>


I think most of the new machines have that pretty well standardized...
but off hand I don't recall which one is the more likely configuration.

All I know is that when I pull one out of my junk box...it's usually
the
wrong one...
probably something I've removed from a scrapped out 386 <G>


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[Bill Blanton]

"MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e7rFdzenIHA.4664@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
> "Bill Blanton" <bblanton@REMOVEmagicnet.net> wrote in message
> news:%23rBjbddnIHA.3532@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> | "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:u8ifLpSnIHA.3512@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> | > Well, I must say that somewhat surprises me as well, that is not
what is
> | > generally found [generally the first failure encountered].
> | >
> | > It would be interesting to know the manufacturer and model for
that USB
> | > mouse, so others might find this on the net for their attempts.
> | > Might be wise to put up the motherboard/computer manufacturer and
model
> as
> | > well. This would, perhaps, allow placement of the chipset
information.
> | >
> | > Seems you may have USB compatibility/PS2 emulation in-built and
turned
> on
> | > by default.
> |
> | That would be my guess too. There's no penalty for "legacy mode" or
"PS/2
> emulation"
> | at the BIOS level once Windows boots and loads its own drivers.
However it
> may not be
> | desirable for some non-Windows (and possibly *nix) machines. How
many are
> there?
> |
> | The fact that mouse.exe works suggests that PS/2 is being emulated.
> |
>
> Yeah, seems so. I'm not sure if there would be a problem with *NIX
machines
> either, as that is handled in the kernel now anyway..

Probably not,,

> Anyone know for sure?


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[rebel]

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:03:01 -0600, "Bill in Co."
<not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

>rebel wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:32:30 -0600, "Bill in Co."
>> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Franc Zabkar wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:27:47 -0600, "Bill in Co."
>>>> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and
composed:
>>>>
>>>>> So it appears that any PS/2 - Serial Adapters will *have* to have
some
>>>>> electronics inside, afterall, and are NOT just simply rewired,
>>>>> afterall.
>>>>
>>>> No, AIUI the combo mouse has all the electronics for both
interfaces
>>>> and protocols whereas a PS/2 mouse is PS/2 only and a serial mouse
is
>>>> serial only.
>>>>
>>>> See http://pinouts.ru/InputCables/MousePs2Serial_pinout.shtml
>>>> and http://pinouts.ru/InputCables/MouseSerialPs2_pinout.shtml
>>>
>>> AIUI? (don't know that one)
>>
>> As I understand it
>>
>>> But Franc, I have also seen advertised some basic PS/2 to Serial
(or vice
>>> versa) plug adapters (no mice included). They just look like
>>> connectors,
>>> with a very short cable (or even non-existent cable, just molded
into one
>>> assembly), at least as I recall.
>>
>> and those adapters ONLY work with certain mice - which turn out to
be the
>> bilingual ones using the appropriate bilingual driver.
>
>OK. Thanks for that info, and that seems to clear up some things.
>So if I'm reading that right, that implies those simple PS/2 to Serial
>adapter connectors may indeed be just rewired (and have no
electronics),

correct

>but, as you both said, a bilingual mouse would have to be used with
them
>(assuming you needed the adapter in the first place).

correct. All they do is permit a dual mode serial/PS2 mouse with
connector type
A to be plugged into a receptacle type B, or vice versa - saving you
the effort
of replacing the plug..


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