- Thread starter
- #121
M
MEB
Re: What is Quick Time
Gary, you're wrong or uninformed.
Check out the comparisons to the newest Linux clones verses XP [or even
VISTA]. You can't ignore where the world is moving. Microsoft doesn't and is
concerned. Between Apple and these clones, Microsoft has to rely upon
uniformed people to use its OSs, and coerce manufactures to follow its
designs, and force the use of its OSs.
XP may suit your purposes, obviously it does, but that means little.
Wouldn't you rather run an OS which can be changed today, rather than
waiting a month or never, to have something fixed. Wouldn't you rather have
manufacturers working WITH users, rather than with Microsoft. Wouldn't you
rather have thousands of code knowledgeable people helping to protect you
[with the opposite of course, but that's in Windows also so the comparison
is negated].
Don't you wonder why Windows is supposedly mostly a secret coding, yet just
about everyone can hack it [from 7 or 8 year olds up]? Why would you support
a system in which the key features cause numerous issues of their own?
Ask yourself why you WOULD ignore these things, why you fight so
desperately to further an OS which you admit is not what it purports to
be.... Your ideas and arguments fall flat, by your own writings...
Gary, the reason I'M here, is I have a small part in this monster called
Microsoft. I participated in the very earliest stages, provided the error
reports and suggestions, downloaded by long distance and at MY cost the
files by 2400 then 14.4 then 33.6 modem, defended [verbally] the parties who
brought windows to the business world and were FIRED AND SUED for doing so,
did the beta testing until Microsoft started CHARGING [how dense am I, ah
yeah, I supply the computer system which Microsoft trashes and which I PAY
to have trashed] and a number of other things which I now regret.... no
matter how trivial or insignificant my part or input was, this 9X
environment is something I participated in and THOUGHT the world needed [it
was, it brought computing to the masses as you indicate]. The NT
environment, which I also worked with though NEVER recommended, has, per my
own testing, never been a good replacement for Unix or other servers. That
it was forced into the home environment under false pretences is something I
can not support. My position on XP was stated YEARS ago in this group, I
will never recommend it unless something changes, which SP3 did not
completely do.
--
MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
--
_________
"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
news:uLSizKVwIHA.5584@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
| "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| news:O7NB9RUwIHA.576@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
| > Let's just end this with a fact:
| >
| > Microsoft is attempting to foster open source for its proposed newer
| > operating systems... think you can guess WHY... and that pretty much
ends
| > any debate about just how good XP and Vista are....
|
| Don't be obtuse. That's about as ridiculous a piece of logic as you've
| launched all day. IF MS is trying to coopt the open source community
(which
| is what you claim amounts to), it's because they can't come up with what
| they WANTED Vista to be, a whole new OS with a whole new file system and
| everything else that everyone, including me, knows are weak points in
2K/XP.
|
| Whereas the "debate" we *were* having, until you changed it again, was one
| of comparative OSes that NOW EXIST. I never claimed that XP was the cat's
| meow, that it doesn't need replacing, and teh sooner the better. It's just
a
| LOT better than Windows 9x in almost all respects, and, for the mass
| consumer, the only reasonable choice available. (Careful, well-off persons
| might choose Mac, instead, especially since they made it run Windows
| decently, but only geeks run Linux distros.)
|
| Doesn't mean I think XP is bad, either. I've been using XP since before
RTM
| and for a lot of various types of real work, using lots of major apps and
| minor apps, updating, etc., etc. There have been some stumbles, but
nothing
| so catastrophic as I'd regularly run into using Win9x, nor as frequent,
etc.
| I have an abiding appreciation for XP's robustness and breadth of possible
| functionality compared to 9x, based upon real use. Lastly, like I said, I
| used them both for real work, and didn't have time to figure out anything
of
| the Linux flavor.
|
| I learned 98 when I was disabled and living in a tiny travel trailer. Once
I
| found them in the beginning of '99, I had time to participate in the
groups,
| tear 98 apart, try all kinds of apps, all kinds of cinfigurations, some
| hardware changes, even ran a virus just to see what it did, to report to
| this group. I used my 98 Upgrade CD, purchased the day it came out, to
| reinstall my P200 system many hundreds of times in just a few short
months.
| Etc., etc. But then I had to go back to work, and didn't have time for
much
| of that (relatively). And now my brain doesn't work well enough to learn.
No
| retention. Which is why I haven't even moved to supporting XP. Not
qualified
| and not up to becoming so.
|
| Once I get a bit more on my feet (maybe next winter), I'll see how Linux
has
| matured. Last time I tried it (before XP came out) every distro I tried
was
| a misrerable failure. I don't want to HAVE to build the entire OS from
| scratch, practically, just to get my machine running. Didn't even get to
| find out if I could get real work done on them. (I was in the publishing
| business. Lots of graphics work. I also made money building Access apps
and
| other odd but very demanding projects.) So, you think any of the distros
are
| going to make me happy? Will any of them run Photoshop? (No, there is NO
| replacement for Photoshop!)
|
| > Sorry not really in this type of debating mood at the moment, still
stuck
| > in Legal mode [local and distant]...
|
| Sorry, you started it. You want it finished, just stop replying. As for
the
| legal blah blah, best wishes.
|
| --
| Gary S. Terhune
| MS-MVP Shell/User
| www.grystmill.com
|
| > "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
| > news:uHaakITwIHA.3968@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
| > |
| > | "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > | news:e39giUSwIHA.3484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
| > | >
| > | > "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
| > | > news:O6TJ5MPwIHA.4564@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
| > | > | "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > | > | news:OWeKt3OwIHA.516@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > | > "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
| > | > | > news:%23k1oCnOwIHA.516@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
| > | > | > | Windows XP is no more a POS than 98. I don't use Vista so I
| > can't
| > | > | > comment,
| > | > | > | but I imagine it's the same thing, though I tend to think of
| > Vista
| > | > as
| > | > | > XP's
| > | > | > | ME. As for your hardware argument, that's total BS. Windows 98
| > lost
| > | > it's
| > | > | > | market share (dropped into the low single-digits) long before
| > new
| > | > | > hardware
| > | > | > | stopped supporting it.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | People LIKE operating systems that just work. Windows XP is
and
| > | > always
| > | > | > has
| > | > | > | been more robust than 98. That's why IT people like it (go
| > ahead,
| > | > show
| > | > | > me
| > | > | > a
| > | > | > | survey of IT's where 98 is compared favorably with other
| > systems.)
| > | > | > That's
| > | > | > | why home users and SOHO users and everyone else like XP. As
for
| > | > | > security,
| > | > | > | the only difference between now on XP and then on 98 is in the
| > | > details.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > IT goes for what's EASY to use, what seems to be hot, and are
just
| > as
| > | > | > easily mislead as any other party.
| > | > | > Just as the home user THOUGHT they were getting a much more
secure
| > | > system,
| > | > | > so did IT. Just as the home user doesn't want to spend much time
| > | > learning
| > | > | > how to use a computer, so does IT.
| > | > | > The relational charcturistics between home and IT or other
| > | > professionals
| > | > | > runs parallel. Look on the one hand at IT trying to secure their
| > | > systems,
| > | > | > and the other the web development department attempting to
create
| > new
| > | > | > ways
| > | > | > to garner more information via script and other... how smart is
| > this.
| > | > |
| > | > | And your point is? What you describe is how it's always been, and
in
| > | > fact
| > | > I
| > | > | DO say that XP makes ALL of those tasks easier. And what makes you
| > think
| > | > | that IT or home users consider Security the main consideration
when
| > | > | purchasing a new system? If they know anything, they know it's a
| > | > constant
| > | > | battle no matter what system you're using, particularly if it's
the
| > OS
| > | > that
| > | > | has 80% of the market and makes such a nice big target. They rely
| > upon
| > | > MS
| > | > | and third parties to protect their systems. If they are just as
| > savvy
| > in
| > | > | other things, they'll never have to deal with malware. I certainly
| > | > don't,
| > | > | and only one or two recalcitrants amongst my clientelle have any
| > serious
| > | > | problems with their XP systems once I give them "the talk". On the
| > other
| > | > | hand, I have a few 9x clients left, and they are STILL calling me
| > every
| > | > few
| > | > | months, asking if I can come and clean up some mess.
| > | >
| > | > Due to>>>> their improper use, same for XP. Because they can't take
| > the
| > | > time to learn what they are doing..
| > | > I referenced what was occurring years ago {1992} its called
| > Stupification
| > | > [yeah that's mis-spelled.
| > |
| > | Why should every car driver be a mechanic (I shudder to think...)
Should
| > | every eater also be a full time farmer? What chaos! Computers are
| > | appliances, nothing more. They feed the needs of society, not the
| > reverse.
| > | They just need to work in the real world, and only the *heavily*
| > restricted
| > | Apple offerings do that better than Windows PCs.
| > |
| > | > |
| > | > | > The market you reference, showing usage reflects only that
people
| > CAN
| > | > be
| > | > | > convinced to use products which they actually know nothing
about,
| > just
| > | > | > because its easier to use and happens to be widely accepted, and
| > | > hardware
| > | > | > support has NOT been provided in the previous OS, though much of
| > it
| > | > could
| > | > | > have been by simple updates.... so it isn't necessarily a
| > | > | > better/easier/just
| > | > | > works OS, its a forced upgrade to get what you want or think you
| > need,
| > | > or
| > | > | > does some more setup FOR YOU.
| > | > |
| > | > | Blah, blah. The consumer market tends to buy what's new when they
| > look
| > | > for
| > | > | replacements after a few years of using the old one. That's
| > capitalism
| > | > for
| > | > | you, not a reasonable comparison of OSes. Again, that's the way
it's
| > | > always
| > | > | been, and Luddite is the term for people who refuse to
participate.
| > | > Wanna
| > | > be
| > | > | a Luddite, OK, but the above is a false argument if you're
comparing
| > the
| > | > | OSes on their own merits. When it comes to a decision between XP
and
| > 98
| > | > (and
| > | > | I'm talking about when XP first came out): Hardware support and
| > | > installation
| > | > | is a snap. BSODs are rare, (yes, even in those early days.) After
| > the
| > | > | nightmares in Win9x and NT4 (even Win2K) up to that point in time,
| > just
| > | > | those two items probably sold half the units. The whole point is
| > that
| > | > for
| > | > | most people, they can run Windows without any major problems, with
| > about
| > | > as
| > | > | much learning involved as most people can stand, and the support
is
| > | > second
| > | > | only to Apple. People who don't trust Windows use Apple, which has
| > its
| > | > own
| > | > | multitude of drawbacks. Just who is going to support your Linux
| > distros.
| > | >
| > | > DUUUUUUUHHHHH, the people who work with it, write the drivers,
produce
| > the
| > | > applications,, THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD... seems that's like in here
| > and
| > on
| > | > the XP and VISTA suport forums, only in those Linux groups you're
| > likely
| > | > discussing the issues with the actual programmer [error, okay wait
| > minute
| > | > I
| > | > think I know what needs changed,,, okay try this and see if that
| > corrects
| > | > the issue *or* that particular chip has a bug in it, I can't fix it
| > | > without
| > | > breaking others, but here's a work around Bob worked out which
| > addresses
| > | > it].......
| > |
| > | Have you ever learned the concept of scale? What happens when your
| > distro
| > | writer gets sick, or just sick of people, or even dead? I know, you'll
| > say
| > | that if the distro has "legs" it will develop a decent cadre of people
| > | willing to help with it, but will there also be an ever widening
circle
| > of
| > | happy *programmers* ready to do the same? Or will we pay them via
| > PayPal?
| > |
| > | The Linux concept may some day mature (though I personally think it
has
| > some
| > | fatal flaws), but that day is still far off. Until then, Windows is
it.
| > |
| > | > SO where's your ludite comparison now... in the toilet... being one
of
| > the
| > | > cattle has never been my strong suit.
| > |
| > | Luddite is the perfect word. Your entire spiel brings to mind
| > clippety-clop
| > | music and horse & carriage, though nicely pastoral, scenes (I'm an
| > American,
| > | after all). Whether you "moo" or not is up to you.
| > |
| > | > And YEEEEAAAAHHHHHH, they can *barely* run Windows, until they mess
| > | > something up, or Microsoft breaks something in one of is updates [as
| > | > usual]///// and then we try to help, like we like to do.
| > |
| > | If you lived in the real world, you'd know that you just reaffirmed my
| > | entire thesis. IME, once they learn the basics, MOST people don't need
| > much
| > | programming/hardware help with their Windows XP systems. Not from
other
| > | people. Certainly not as much as they need(ed) with Win9x, by orders
of
| > | magnitude. And, again by orders of magnitude, not nearly as much as
any
| > | other OS -- except Mac, because you pay through the nose for
stability.
| > |
| > | > | > If they actually knew much or had an actual desire to learn,
| > they'd
| > be
| > | > | > using one of the Linux clones or other OS. Were it not for the
| > DEEP
| > | > | > relationship with manufacturers that Microsoft now has, Windows
| > | > wouldn't
| > | > | > be
| > | > | > anywhere near the usage level that it is between the two
FORCING
| > | > Windows
| > | > | > usage
| > | > |
| > | > | Hey, you seem to know a lot. Why are you using Windows? You've got
| > so
| > | > many
| > | > | other choices and you already KNOW that all versions of Windows
are
| > POS.
| > | > |
| > | > | --
| > | > | Gary S. Terhune
| > | > | MS-MVP Shell/User
| > | > | www.grystmill.com
| > | >
| > | > Right, the usual "well you're running Windows" so STF, but I also
ran
| > | > Linux, Xenix, and several other OSs... but I suppose I'm supposed to
| > be
| > a
| > | > mindless Windows junky, blindly following the masses, lauding the
| > VIRTUES
| > | > of
| > | > the newest release or whatever is the supposed best version. Don't
you
| > see
| > | > the comparison to what's occurring now,,, the resistence to move to
| > VISTA,
| > | > the spouting of the VALUE of XP as it draws near to support end, its
| > | > already
| > | > marked for death,,, how can you FAIL to see the comparison to 98 and
| > what
| > | > occurred... what then, spouting how VISTA is now the OS of
choice,the
| > | > super
| > | > sophisicated, unfailingly superior,, or maybe the new Version 7,,
| > yep...
| > | > ride that train, or stand back and look at what is occurring
| > |
| > | Hey, I just figured you'd have much better places to be. Where you
could
| > | help other users with your *preferred* OS/distro. Sheesh! My question
| > was
| > | serious: If Windows is such a POS in general, why do you devote so
much
| > time
| > | to it? Now that I think about it, and from what you've said, I can't
| > believe
| > | you actually run it. You wouldn't be that, er, imprudent. But...
| > then....
| > |
| > | Vista will be passed over much like ME, and for much the same reasons,
| > | though perhaps with a better numbers showing than ME, even in relative
| > | terms. It's a mongrel. Can't really DO anything that XP can't, and
what
| > they
| > | DID add that isn't just eye-candy, what they actually did at the
system
| > | level, they did very poorly, and I'm not talking about the kinds of
| > things
| > | you fix with a patch or even an SP. XP Professional can certainly
handle
| > | basic hardware developments for some time to come.
| > |
| > | The next Windows system will, as I said, have to be an entirely new
| > | paradigm. If it can't be that, we may as well stay with WinXP or
switch
| > | provider altogether. But any replacement for Microsoft will have to
deal
| > | with scale and capitalism* as well as Microsoft. Got any candidates?
| > |
| > | (*Mass capitalism, where "easy" and "convenient" are the ruling
| > paradigms,
| > | not "cheap" and certainly not "quality". In fact, now that I think
about
| > it,
| > | your notions are more than a little communistic, and while I won't
| > debate
| > | you capitalism vs. communism (we'd probably agree too much to make the
| > | conversation worth it), we live in a raw, capitalistic world.)
| > |
| > | --
| > | Gary S. Terhune
| > | MS-MVP Shell/User
| > | www.grystmill.com
| > |
| > |
| > | > | > | As for security, the main issues involve IE and OE and if
Win9x
| > was
| > | > | > | supported, they'd be getting just as many patches. As for
other
| > | > things
| > | > | > that
| > | > | > | needed fixing, 9x had just as many in relative terms.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | Look, ANY argument that compares OS security and DOESN'T take
| > into
| > | > | > account
| > | > | > | market share, the "biggest bang for the buck" operational
theory
| > of
| > | > | > malware
| > | > | > | writers, etc., is pure sophistry.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | And you didn't deny my original premise, did you?
| > | > | >
| > | > | > It wouldn't do any good, but I can see you would be willing to
| > defend
| > | > your
| > | > | > position, I knew you would -]..
| > | > | >
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | --
| > | > | > | Gary S. Terhune
| > | > | > | MS-MVP Shell/User
| > | > | > | www.grystmill.com
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > | > | > | news:%23l7eJaOwIHA.1240@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
| > | > | > | > QT can be used locally, or one can find codex to handle that
| > | > format
| > | > in
| > | > | > | > some
| > | > | > | > other player which IS being supported.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > Right, you DO say that constantly, and you also attempt to
| > foster
| > | > the
| > | > | > | > notion that XP has become the world's favorite because its
| > just
| > so
| > | > | > good
| > | > | > | > and
| > | > | > | > secure, BS, the reason for increased usage is that it is
| > difficult
| > | > to
| > | > | > find
| > | > | > | > computer's to support 9X, leaving the only viable Windows
| > choice
| > | > as
| > | > | > XP,
| > | > | > | > and
| > | > | > | > VISTA is still such a PITA. Try not to buy into the garbage
| > spewed
| > | > by
| > | > | > | > media
| > | > | > | > and others... OR if you wish, we CAN discuss the POS XP
which
| > I
| > | > DID
| > | > | > spend
| > | > | > | > considerable time testing and monitoring... how good its,,,
| > look
| > | > HERE:
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/946480/en-us
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > Think everything is fixed,,, guess again...
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > --
| > | > | > | > MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
| > | > | > | > --
| > | > | > | > _________
| > | > | >
| > | > | > --
| > | > | > MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
| > | > | > --
| > | > | > _________
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
| > | > | > | > news:uKoNOPOwIHA.3760@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
| > | > | > | > | I already told you, that machine has had EVERYTHING
| > installed
| > on
| > | > it
| > | > | > at
| > | > | > | > one
| > | > | > | > | time or another, and been through several ISPs and their
| > | > | > | > branding/helpful
| > | > | > | > | software, etc.
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | But what should she do if she needs QT to play something?
| > After
| > | > all,
| > | > | > | > what
| > | > | > | > | you say about QT on Windows 98 could be said about Win98
| > itself.
| > | > In
| > | > | > | > fact,
| > | > | > | > I
| > | > | > | > | say it fairly regularly in places where people might
| > actually
| > | > | > listen.
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | --
| > | > | > | > | Gary S. Terhune
| > | > | > | > | MS-MVP Shell/User
| > | > | > | > | www.grystmill.com
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > | > | > | > | news:uzyZhGOwIHA.1504@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
| > | > | > | > | > Apple's QuickTime for 98 has not been supported for some
| > time.
| > | > It
| > | > | > is
| > | > | > a
| > | > | > | > | > security risk, and is severely outdated.
| > | > | > | > | > Unless you have some special need to use it online, do
not
| > | > allow
| > | > | > it
| > | > | > | > access
| > | > | > | > | > to the Internet.
| > | > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | > Are you using AOL or some other ISP which installed this
| > for
| > | > you?
| > | > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | > --
| > | > | > | > | > MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
| > | > | > | > | > --
| > | > | > | > | > _________
| > | > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | > "Tim Slattery" <Slattery_T@bls.gov> wrote in message
| > | > | > | > | > news:fa1r3490ic78jqm9d8p4mkkvf84r0rcg82@4ax.com...
| > | > | > | > | > | "CdLSRN" <ginnyrn5@nospam.com> wrote:
| > | > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | > | >Could someone please tell me what Quick Time is?
Sygate
| > | > says
| > | > it
| > | > | > was
| > | > | > | > | > critical that I
| > | > | > | > | > | >had approved a whole bunch of new dlls for Quick
Time,
| > and
| > | > I
| > | > | > don't
| > | > | > | > even
| > | > | > | > | > remember what
| > | > | > | > | > | >it is. Ginny
| > | > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | > | QuickTime is Apple's video player. It plays *.mov and
| > *.mp4
| > | > | > files,
| > | > | > | > | > | which Windows Media Player will not. Installing it
will
| > also
| > | > get
| > | > | > you
| > | > | > | > | > | endless nags from Apple to upgrade it and iTunes
| > (whether
| > | > you
| > | > | > have
| > | > | > | > | > | iTunes or not).
| > | > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | > | --
| > | > | > | > | > | Tim Slattery
| > | > | > | > | > | MS MVP(Shell/User)
| > | > | > | > | > | Slattery_T@bls.gov
| > | > | > | > | > | http://members.cox.net/slatteryt
| > | >
| > | > --
| > | > MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
| > | > --
| > | > _________
| > | >
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| >
| >
|
Gary, you're wrong or uninformed.
Check out the comparisons to the newest Linux clones verses XP [or even
VISTA]. You can't ignore where the world is moving. Microsoft doesn't and is
concerned. Between Apple and these clones, Microsoft has to rely upon
uniformed people to use its OSs, and coerce manufactures to follow its
designs, and force the use of its OSs.
XP may suit your purposes, obviously it does, but that means little.
Wouldn't you rather run an OS which can be changed today, rather than
waiting a month or never, to have something fixed. Wouldn't you rather have
manufacturers working WITH users, rather than with Microsoft. Wouldn't you
rather have thousands of code knowledgeable people helping to protect you
[with the opposite of course, but that's in Windows also so the comparison
is negated].
Don't you wonder why Windows is supposedly mostly a secret coding, yet just
about everyone can hack it [from 7 or 8 year olds up]? Why would you support
a system in which the key features cause numerous issues of their own?
Ask yourself why you WOULD ignore these things, why you fight so
desperately to further an OS which you admit is not what it purports to
be.... Your ideas and arguments fall flat, by your own writings...
Gary, the reason I'M here, is I have a small part in this monster called
Microsoft. I participated in the very earliest stages, provided the error
reports and suggestions, downloaded by long distance and at MY cost the
files by 2400 then 14.4 then 33.6 modem, defended [verbally] the parties who
brought windows to the business world and were FIRED AND SUED for doing so,
did the beta testing until Microsoft started CHARGING [how dense am I, ah
yeah, I supply the computer system which Microsoft trashes and which I PAY
to have trashed] and a number of other things which I now regret.... no
matter how trivial or insignificant my part or input was, this 9X
environment is something I participated in and THOUGHT the world needed [it
was, it brought computing to the masses as you indicate]. The NT
environment, which I also worked with though NEVER recommended, has, per my
own testing, never been a good replacement for Unix or other servers. That
it was forced into the home environment under false pretences is something I
can not support. My position on XP was stated YEARS ago in this group, I
will never recommend it unless something changes, which SP3 did not
completely do.
--
MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
--
_________
"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
news:uLSizKVwIHA.5584@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
| "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| news:O7NB9RUwIHA.576@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
| > Let's just end this with a fact:
| >
| > Microsoft is attempting to foster open source for its proposed newer
| > operating systems... think you can guess WHY... and that pretty much
ends
| > any debate about just how good XP and Vista are....
|
| Don't be obtuse. That's about as ridiculous a piece of logic as you've
| launched all day. IF MS is trying to coopt the open source community
(which
| is what you claim amounts to), it's because they can't come up with what
| they WANTED Vista to be, a whole new OS with a whole new file system and
| everything else that everyone, including me, knows are weak points in
2K/XP.
|
| Whereas the "debate" we *were* having, until you changed it again, was one
| of comparative OSes that NOW EXIST. I never claimed that XP was the cat's
| meow, that it doesn't need replacing, and teh sooner the better. It's just
a
| LOT better than Windows 9x in almost all respects, and, for the mass
| consumer, the only reasonable choice available. (Careful, well-off persons
| might choose Mac, instead, especially since they made it run Windows
| decently, but only geeks run Linux distros.)
|
| Doesn't mean I think XP is bad, either. I've been using XP since before
RTM
| and for a lot of various types of real work, using lots of major apps and
| minor apps, updating, etc., etc. There have been some stumbles, but
nothing
| so catastrophic as I'd regularly run into using Win9x, nor as frequent,
etc.
| I have an abiding appreciation for XP's robustness and breadth of possible
| functionality compared to 9x, based upon real use. Lastly, like I said, I
| used them both for real work, and didn't have time to figure out anything
of
| the Linux flavor.
|
| I learned 98 when I was disabled and living in a tiny travel trailer. Once
I
| found them in the beginning of '99, I had time to participate in the
groups,
| tear 98 apart, try all kinds of apps, all kinds of cinfigurations, some
| hardware changes, even ran a virus just to see what it did, to report to
| this group. I used my 98 Upgrade CD, purchased the day it came out, to
| reinstall my P200 system many hundreds of times in just a few short
months.
| Etc., etc. But then I had to go back to work, and didn't have time for
much
| of that (relatively). And now my brain doesn't work well enough to learn.
No
| retention. Which is why I haven't even moved to supporting XP. Not
qualified
| and not up to becoming so.
|
| Once I get a bit more on my feet (maybe next winter), I'll see how Linux
has
| matured. Last time I tried it (before XP came out) every distro I tried
was
| a misrerable failure. I don't want to HAVE to build the entire OS from
| scratch, practically, just to get my machine running. Didn't even get to
| find out if I could get real work done on them. (I was in the publishing
| business. Lots of graphics work. I also made money building Access apps
and
| other odd but very demanding projects.) So, you think any of the distros
are
| going to make me happy? Will any of them run Photoshop? (No, there is NO
| replacement for Photoshop!)
|
| > Sorry not really in this type of debating mood at the moment, still
stuck
| > in Legal mode [local and distant]...
|
| Sorry, you started it. You want it finished, just stop replying. As for
the
| legal blah blah, best wishes.
|
| --
| Gary S. Terhune
| MS-MVP Shell/User
| www.grystmill.com
|
| > "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
| > news:uHaakITwIHA.3968@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
| > |
| > | "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > | news:e39giUSwIHA.3484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
| > | >
| > | > "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
| > | > news:O6TJ5MPwIHA.4564@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
| > | > | "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > | > | news:OWeKt3OwIHA.516@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > | > "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
| > | > | > news:%23k1oCnOwIHA.516@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
| > | > | > | Windows XP is no more a POS than 98. I don't use Vista so I
| > can't
| > | > | > comment,
| > | > | > | but I imagine it's the same thing, though I tend to think of
| > Vista
| > | > as
| > | > | > XP's
| > | > | > | ME. As for your hardware argument, that's total BS. Windows 98
| > lost
| > | > it's
| > | > | > | market share (dropped into the low single-digits) long before
| > new
| > | > | > hardware
| > | > | > | stopped supporting it.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | People LIKE operating systems that just work. Windows XP is
and
| > | > always
| > | > | > has
| > | > | > | been more robust than 98. That's why IT people like it (go
| > ahead,
| > | > show
| > | > | > me
| > | > | > a
| > | > | > | survey of IT's where 98 is compared favorably with other
| > systems.)
| > | > | > That's
| > | > | > | why home users and SOHO users and everyone else like XP. As
for
| > | > | > security,
| > | > | > | the only difference between now on XP and then on 98 is in the
| > | > details.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > IT goes for what's EASY to use, what seems to be hot, and are
just
| > as
| > | > | > easily mislead as any other party.
| > | > | > Just as the home user THOUGHT they were getting a much more
secure
| > | > system,
| > | > | > so did IT. Just as the home user doesn't want to spend much time
| > | > learning
| > | > | > how to use a computer, so does IT.
| > | > | > The relational charcturistics between home and IT or other
| > | > professionals
| > | > | > runs parallel. Look on the one hand at IT trying to secure their
| > | > systems,
| > | > | > and the other the web development department attempting to
create
| > new
| > | > | > ways
| > | > | > to garner more information via script and other... how smart is
| > this.
| > | > |
| > | > | And your point is? What you describe is how it's always been, and
in
| > | > fact
| > | > I
| > | > | DO say that XP makes ALL of those tasks easier. And what makes you
| > think
| > | > | that IT or home users consider Security the main consideration
when
| > | > | purchasing a new system? If they know anything, they know it's a
| > | > constant
| > | > | battle no matter what system you're using, particularly if it's
the
| > OS
| > | > that
| > | > | has 80% of the market and makes such a nice big target. They rely
| > upon
| > | > MS
| > | > | and third parties to protect their systems. If they are just as
| > savvy
| > in
| > | > | other things, they'll never have to deal with malware. I certainly
| > | > don't,
| > | > | and only one or two recalcitrants amongst my clientelle have any
| > serious
| > | > | problems with their XP systems once I give them "the talk". On the
| > other
| > | > | hand, I have a few 9x clients left, and they are STILL calling me
| > every
| > | > few
| > | > | months, asking if I can come and clean up some mess.
| > | >
| > | > Due to>>>> their improper use, same for XP. Because they can't take
| > the
| > | > time to learn what they are doing..
| > | > I referenced what was occurring years ago {1992} its called
| > Stupification
| > | > [yeah that's mis-spelled.
| > |
| > | Why should every car driver be a mechanic (I shudder to think...)
Should
| > | every eater also be a full time farmer? What chaos! Computers are
| > | appliances, nothing more. They feed the needs of society, not the
| > reverse.
| > | They just need to work in the real world, and only the *heavily*
| > restricted
| > | Apple offerings do that better than Windows PCs.
| > |
| > | > |
| > | > | > The market you reference, showing usage reflects only that
people
| > CAN
| > | > be
| > | > | > convinced to use products which they actually know nothing
about,
| > just
| > | > | > because its easier to use and happens to be widely accepted, and
| > | > hardware
| > | > | > support has NOT been provided in the previous OS, though much of
| > it
| > | > could
| > | > | > have been by simple updates.... so it isn't necessarily a
| > | > | > better/easier/just
| > | > | > works OS, its a forced upgrade to get what you want or think you
| > need,
| > | > or
| > | > | > does some more setup FOR YOU.
| > | > |
| > | > | Blah, blah. The consumer market tends to buy what's new when they
| > look
| > | > for
| > | > | replacements after a few years of using the old one. That's
| > capitalism
| > | > for
| > | > | you, not a reasonable comparison of OSes. Again, that's the way
it's
| > | > always
| > | > | been, and Luddite is the term for people who refuse to
participate.
| > | > Wanna
| > | > be
| > | > | a Luddite, OK, but the above is a false argument if you're
comparing
| > the
| > | > | OSes on their own merits. When it comes to a decision between XP
and
| > 98
| > | > (and
| > | > | I'm talking about when XP first came out): Hardware support and
| > | > installation
| > | > | is a snap. BSODs are rare, (yes, even in those early days.) After
| > the
| > | > | nightmares in Win9x and NT4 (even Win2K) up to that point in time,
| > just
| > | > | those two items probably sold half the units. The whole point is
| > that
| > | > for
| > | > | most people, they can run Windows without any major problems, with
| > about
| > | > as
| > | > | much learning involved as most people can stand, and the support
is
| > | > second
| > | > | only to Apple. People who don't trust Windows use Apple, which has
| > its
| > | > own
| > | > | multitude of drawbacks. Just who is going to support your Linux
| > distros.
| > | >
| > | > DUUUUUUUHHHHH, the people who work with it, write the drivers,
produce
| > the
| > | > applications,, THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD... seems that's like in here
| > and
| > on
| > | > the XP and VISTA suport forums, only in those Linux groups you're
| > likely
| > | > discussing the issues with the actual programmer [error, okay wait
| > minute
| > | > I
| > | > think I know what needs changed,,, okay try this and see if that
| > corrects
| > | > the issue *or* that particular chip has a bug in it, I can't fix it
| > | > without
| > | > breaking others, but here's a work around Bob worked out which
| > addresses
| > | > it].......
| > |
| > | Have you ever learned the concept of scale? What happens when your
| > distro
| > | writer gets sick, or just sick of people, or even dead? I know, you'll
| > say
| > | that if the distro has "legs" it will develop a decent cadre of people
| > | willing to help with it, but will there also be an ever widening
circle
| > of
| > | happy *programmers* ready to do the same? Or will we pay them via
| > PayPal?
| > |
| > | The Linux concept may some day mature (though I personally think it
has
| > some
| > | fatal flaws), but that day is still far off. Until then, Windows is
it.
| > |
| > | > SO where's your ludite comparison now... in the toilet... being one
of
| > the
| > | > cattle has never been my strong suit.
| > |
| > | Luddite is the perfect word. Your entire spiel brings to mind
| > clippety-clop
| > | music and horse & carriage, though nicely pastoral, scenes (I'm an
| > American,
| > | after all). Whether you "moo" or not is up to you.
| > |
| > | > And YEEEEAAAAHHHHHH, they can *barely* run Windows, until they mess
| > | > something up, or Microsoft breaks something in one of is updates [as
| > | > usual]///// and then we try to help, like we like to do.
| > |
| > | If you lived in the real world, you'd know that you just reaffirmed my
| > | entire thesis. IME, once they learn the basics, MOST people don't need
| > much
| > | programming/hardware help with their Windows XP systems. Not from
other
| > | people. Certainly not as much as they need(ed) with Win9x, by orders
of
| > | magnitude. And, again by orders of magnitude, not nearly as much as
any
| > | other OS -- except Mac, because you pay through the nose for
stability.
| > |
| > | > | > If they actually knew much or had an actual desire to learn,
| > they'd
| > be
| > | > | > using one of the Linux clones or other OS. Were it not for the
| > DEEP
| > | > | > relationship with manufacturers that Microsoft now has, Windows
| > | > wouldn't
| > | > | > be
| > | > | > anywhere near the usage level that it is between the two
FORCING
| > | > Windows
| > | > | > usage
| > | > |
| > | > | Hey, you seem to know a lot. Why are you using Windows? You've got
| > so
| > | > many
| > | > | other choices and you already KNOW that all versions of Windows
are
| > POS.
| > | > |
| > | > | --
| > | > | Gary S. Terhune
| > | > | MS-MVP Shell/User
| > | > | www.grystmill.com
| > | >
| > | > Right, the usual "well you're running Windows" so STF, but I also
ran
| > | > Linux, Xenix, and several other OSs... but I suppose I'm supposed to
| > be
| > a
| > | > mindless Windows junky, blindly following the masses, lauding the
| > VIRTUES
| > | > of
| > | > the newest release or whatever is the supposed best version. Don't
you
| > see
| > | > the comparison to what's occurring now,,, the resistence to move to
| > VISTA,
| > | > the spouting of the VALUE of XP as it draws near to support end, its
| > | > already
| > | > marked for death,,, how can you FAIL to see the comparison to 98 and
| > what
| > | > occurred... what then, spouting how VISTA is now the OS of
choice,the
| > | > super
| > | > sophisicated, unfailingly superior,, or maybe the new Version 7,,
| > yep...
| > | > ride that train, or stand back and look at what is occurring
| > |
| > | Hey, I just figured you'd have much better places to be. Where you
could
| > | help other users with your *preferred* OS/distro. Sheesh! My question
| > was
| > | serious: If Windows is such a POS in general, why do you devote so
much
| > time
| > | to it? Now that I think about it, and from what you've said, I can't
| > believe
| > | you actually run it. You wouldn't be that, er, imprudent. But...
| > then....
| > |
| > | Vista will be passed over much like ME, and for much the same reasons,
| > | though perhaps with a better numbers showing than ME, even in relative
| > | terms. It's a mongrel. Can't really DO anything that XP can't, and
what
| > they
| > | DID add that isn't just eye-candy, what they actually did at the
system
| > | level, they did very poorly, and I'm not talking about the kinds of
| > things
| > | you fix with a patch or even an SP. XP Professional can certainly
handle
| > | basic hardware developments for some time to come.
| > |
| > | The next Windows system will, as I said, have to be an entirely new
| > | paradigm. If it can't be that, we may as well stay with WinXP or
switch
| > | provider altogether. But any replacement for Microsoft will have to
deal
| > | with scale and capitalism* as well as Microsoft. Got any candidates?
| > |
| > | (*Mass capitalism, where "easy" and "convenient" are the ruling
| > paradigms,
| > | not "cheap" and certainly not "quality". In fact, now that I think
about
| > it,
| > | your notions are more than a little communistic, and while I won't
| > debate
| > | you capitalism vs. communism (we'd probably agree too much to make the
| > | conversation worth it), we live in a raw, capitalistic world.)
| > |
| > | --
| > | Gary S. Terhune
| > | MS-MVP Shell/User
| > | www.grystmill.com
| > |
| > |
| > | > | > | As for security, the main issues involve IE and OE and if
Win9x
| > was
| > | > | > | supported, they'd be getting just as many patches. As for
other
| > | > things
| > | > | > that
| > | > | > | needed fixing, 9x had just as many in relative terms.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | Look, ANY argument that compares OS security and DOESN'T take
| > into
| > | > | > account
| > | > | > | market share, the "biggest bang for the buck" operational
theory
| > of
| > | > | > malware
| > | > | > | writers, etc., is pure sophistry.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | And you didn't deny my original premise, did you?
| > | > | >
| > | > | > It wouldn't do any good, but I can see you would be willing to
| > defend
| > | > your
| > | > | > position, I knew you would -]..
| > | > | >
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | --
| > | > | > | Gary S. Terhune
| > | > | > | MS-MVP Shell/User
| > | > | > | www.grystmill.com
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > | > | > | news:%23l7eJaOwIHA.1240@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
| > | > | > | > QT can be used locally, or one can find codex to handle that
| > | > format
| > | > in
| > | > | > | > some
| > | > | > | > other player which IS being supported.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > Right, you DO say that constantly, and you also attempt to
| > foster
| > | > the
| > | > | > | > notion that XP has become the world's favorite because its
| > just
| > so
| > | > | > good
| > | > | > | > and
| > | > | > | > secure, BS, the reason for increased usage is that it is
| > difficult
| > | > to
| > | > | > find
| > | > | > | > computer's to support 9X, leaving the only viable Windows
| > choice
| > | > as
| > | > | > XP,
| > | > | > | > and
| > | > | > | > VISTA is still such a PITA. Try not to buy into the garbage
| > spewed
| > | > by
| > | > | > | > media
| > | > | > | > and others... OR if you wish, we CAN discuss the POS XP
which
| > I
| > | > DID
| > | > | > spend
| > | > | > | > considerable time testing and monitoring... how good its,,,
| > look
| > | > HERE:
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/946480/en-us
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > Think everything is fixed,,, guess again...
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > --
| > | > | > | > MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
| > | > | > | > --
| > | > | > | > _________
| > | > | >
| > | > | > --
| > | > | > MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
| > | > | > --
| > | > | > _________
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
| > | > | > | > news:uKoNOPOwIHA.3760@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
| > | > | > | > | I already told you, that machine has had EVERYTHING
| > installed
| > on
| > | > it
| > | > | > at
| > | > | > | > one
| > | > | > | > | time or another, and been through several ISPs and their
| > | > | > | > branding/helpful
| > | > | > | > | software, etc.
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | But what should she do if she needs QT to play something?
| > After
| > | > all,
| > | > | > | > what
| > | > | > | > | you say about QT on Windows 98 could be said about Win98
| > itself.
| > | > In
| > | > | > | > fact,
| > | > | > | > I
| > | > | > | > | say it fairly regularly in places where people might
| > actually
| > | > | > listen.
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | --
| > | > | > | > | Gary S. Terhune
| > | > | > | > | MS-MVP Shell/User
| > | > | > | > | www.grystmill.com
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > | > | > | > | news:uzyZhGOwIHA.1504@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
| > | > | > | > | > Apple's QuickTime for 98 has not been supported for some
| > time.
| > | > It
| > | > | > is
| > | > | > a
| > | > | > | > | > security risk, and is severely outdated.
| > | > | > | > | > Unless you have some special need to use it online, do
not
| > | > allow
| > | > | > it
| > | > | > | > access
| > | > | > | > | > to the Internet.
| > | > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | > Are you using AOL or some other ISP which installed this
| > for
| > | > you?
| > | > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | > --
| > | > | > | > | > MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
| > | > | > | > | > --
| > | > | > | > | > _________
| > | > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | > "Tim Slattery" <Slattery_T@bls.gov> wrote in message
| > | > | > | > | > news:fa1r3490ic78jqm9d8p4mkkvf84r0rcg82@4ax.com...
| > | > | > | > | > | "CdLSRN" <ginnyrn5@nospam.com> wrote:
| > | > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | > | >Could someone please tell me what Quick Time is?
Sygate
| > | > says
| > | > it
| > | > | > was
| > | > | > | > | > critical that I
| > | > | > | > | > | >had approved a whole bunch of new dlls for Quick
Time,
| > and
| > | > I
| > | > | > don't
| > | > | > | > even
| > | > | > | > | > remember what
| > | > | > | > | > | >it is. Ginny
| > | > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | > | QuickTime is Apple's video player. It plays *.mov and
| > *.mp4
| > | > | > files,
| > | > | > | > | > | which Windows Media Player will not. Installing it
will
| > also
| > | > get
| > | > | > you
| > | > | > | > | > | endless nags from Apple to upgrade it and iTunes
| > (whether
| > | > you
| > | > | > have
| > | > | > | > | > | iTunes or not).
| > | > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | > | --
| > | > | > | > | > | Tim Slattery
| > | > | > | > | > | MS MVP(Shell/User)
| > | > | > | > | > | Slattery_T@bls.gov
| > | > | > | > | > | http://members.cox.net/slatteryt
| > | >
| > | > --
| > | > MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
| > | > --
| > | > _________
| > | >
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| >
| >
|
arryl_Gittins.3a7bjd@DoNotSpam.com...